Diverter Sanity Check

[avc8130]

Sorry AC, got sidetracked - yes, that's the connection diagram you want. Yeah, hard lines aren't for everybody - I spent the last 35 years of my career doing industrial instrumentation/automation, so bending tube up to at least 1/2" is no big deal - but it's probably not worth doing that large of tubing UNLESS you're willing to fork over the dough for a REAL bender with roller guides - this is the one I use -

Ridgid 38048 1/2-Inch Capacity Instrument Tubing Bender - Hand Tool Sets - Amazon.com

Smaller tube doesn't need rollers for most stuff, I use this one for 3/8

Ridgid 36097 36097 BENDER, 406 TUBE - Rebar Cutters And Benders - Amazon.com

But without a fair amount of experience finding out what DOESN'T work, I'd stick to hoses too... Steve

Yeah, I plan to just do hoses. On my old L39 I bought the Kubota 3rd function kit and from the factory it used all hose. Good enough for me.

I think I'll be pickup up a rake grapple tomorrow. Originally I planned the dirverter for a snow plow setup, but I can't pass up a grapple too! I miss the grapple I sold with my L39.

ac

 

[downsizingnow48]

fork over the dough for a REAL bender with roller guides - this is the one I use -

Ridgid 38048 1/2-Inch Capacity Instrument Tubing Bender - Hand Tool Sets - Amazon.com

Smaller tube doesn't need rollers for most stuff, I use this one for 3/8

Ridgid 36097 36097 BENDER, 406 TUBE - Rebar Cutters And Benders - Amazon.com

It is helpful to have a reference for a known-to-work steel tubing bender, many thanks. How about the flare, what works for stainless steel 3/8"? I do flares on copper tubing but have never tried steel. Regards.

 

[oldnslo]

Flaring stainless and not having it leak it a real challenge. Depending on the grade of stainless any good 37 degree flaring tool should work. Problem with stainless is that some grades work harden so when flaring the end becomes hard and brittle.

 

[BukitCase]

Agree completely with Oldnslo - that's why, if you look at my earlier pics those fittings you see are these -

Convert-A-Flare Tube Sleeve
Convert-A-Flare Tube Nut

They're not stainless, but I've used them at up to about 2250 psi (my hoe and 2 tractors are old like me ) with zero problems yet. Same with field installable hose fittings

Field-Attachable (Reusable) Hose Fittings > Discount Hydraulic Hose.com

The 3/8 bender I linked will bend stainless or steel hydraulic tubing ok, it's just when you move up to 1/2" that it's MUCH easier to do with a roller model, especially when you're trying for accuracy and repeatability... Steve

 

[downsizingnow48]

Thanks for the info. Some short hard lines will improve my own recent diverter installation.

 

[kennyd]

I'm surprised no one makes a bolt on hose clamp mount from what I've found.

You can use the weld on clamps, but discard the weld plate and drill/tap the loader for the bolt.

 

[avc8130]

You can use the weld on clamps, but discard the weld plate and drill/tap the loader for the bolt.

View attachment 449118

Excellent plan. I ordered those figuring I'd rig something up. Now that you confirmed my suspicion, that is MUCH easier than I originally feared.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Well I got to do the hydraulic portion of the install today. You guys were right about the fittings on the loader valve, female to male JIC elbows worked perfect. I did manage to plumb the curl circuit wrong the first time and both directions uncurled the bucket. Swapped one hose and all was well.

I did learn something else: I should have ordered an extended elbow for each face of the diverter. The standard elbows interfered with each other just a tad when trying to install them so I had to do a little grinding and hoping they wouldn't leak. I had to take ~1/16" off the edge of the flare to create clearance. So far it looks like no leakers.

Now I need to finish up the electric. I already have a wire run to another diverter for my thumb on the backhoe so I'll splice into that power. I got another waterproof switch from CPI that I'll attach to the loader joystick.

I got 4 of the weld clamps to control the hoses. I'll be abandoning the bottom plate and drilling/tapping the loader.

Now I just need to figure out how to drill/tap the loader tower as there isn't too much clearance. I do own a right angle drill, I just hope I can keep it relatively square.

ac

 

[BukitCase]

Most loader tubing isn't real thick - for that reason, if you're gonna tap for your hose clamps I would consider -

Assuming your hose clamps are 5/16" (the ones I use are), NC threads require an F drill (.2570"). NF threads require an I drill (.2720") - in thinner material, NF threads give more holding power which is why I recommend using 5/16-24 (NF) bolts.

IF you first drill using a 1/4" bit, you will be able to see how much metal thickness is there - if it's less than 1/4" thick, I would go with NF thread bolts - for example, 3/16" thickness only gives you a bit more than 3 threads in contact using 5/16" NC bolts, while 3/16" using 5/16" NF bolts gives you 4-1/2 threads in contact.

The EXACT method above lets you see how thick your loader arms are WITHOUT committing to coarse or fine threads, since the 1/4" bit is smaller than EITHER of the CORRECT tap drills (assuming 75% threads)

I'm probably a bit more **** than some, but in my experience it takes a fair amount of torque to keep non-bending sections of hose snug and straight on loader arms so I opt for all the help I can get.

Your choice, my advice is worth every penny ...Steve

 

[avc8130]

Most loader tubing isn't real thick - for that reason, if you're gonna tap for your hose clamps I would consider -

Assuming your hose clamps are 5/16" (the ones I use are), NC threads require an F drill (.2570"). NF threads require an I drill (.2720") - in thinner material, NF threads give more holding power which is why I recommend using 5/16-24 (NF) bolts.

IF you first drill using a 1/4" bit, you will be able to see how much metal thickness is there - if it's less than 1/4" thick, I would go with NF thread bolts - for example, 3/16" thickness only gives you a bit more than 3 threads in contact using 5/16" NC bolts, while 3/16" using 5/16" NF bolts gives you 4-1/2 threads in contact.

The EXACT method above lets you see how thick your loader arms are WITHOUT committing to coarse or fine threads, since the 1/4" bit is smaller than EITHER of the CORRECT tap drills (assuming 75% threads)

I'm probably a bit more **** than some, but in my experience it takes a fair amount of torque to keep non-bending sections of hose snug and straight on loader arms so I opt for all the help I can get.

Your choice, my advice is worth every penny ...Steve

Steve,

Your advice has been more than appreciated throughout this whole project for me. You bet your bottom dollar I'll be following along and finding some 5/16-24 bolts tomorrow and starting with a 1/4" bit.

I was wondering how well the single bolt would work to hold the hose clamps. If it proves to be a failure I can always resort to welding or drilling a second hole through the plate and the loader arm for a press fit pin to prevent rotation.

ac

 

[aeblank]

extended elbow for each face of the diverter.

also could have converted to JIC, then used a JIC-JIC 90 instead (or in one of the locations).
They have the spin "collar" on them for any orientation.

 

[avc8130]

also could have converted to JIC, then used a JIC-JIC 90 instead (or in one of the locations).
They have the spin "collar" on them for any orientation.

Yeah live and learn.

 

[avc8130]

The culmination.











Thanks everyone!

ac

 

[kennyd]

Looks good AC :thumbsup:

 

[avc8130]

Hey guys, need your help again.

I figured I should clean up the couplers on the machine so I ordered some bulkhead fittings and got a nice bracket. I installed the bracket and swapped in the NPT-JIC bulkhead fittings to replace the straight NPT-JIC fittings I had in the couplers before.

Guess what? It doesn't work any more!

The grapply tries to close, but will NOT open. It sounds like the hydraulics are dead-headed.

So I started some troubleshooting.

I pulled out an old hydraulic motor I've had lying around for years planning on making an auger. Same problem. Spins nice in one direction, dead-head in the other.

So I thought maybe my new fittings were the issue. So I pulled them out, and swapped out the couplers on the machine. Same problem: spins nice in one direction, dead head in the other!

So I connected the aux lines directly together. Curl function diverted one way: nice sound of hydraulic flow. Curl function diverted other way: DEAD HEAD.

What did I break?

ac

 

[kennyd]

Sounds like regen is fighting you, try pushing the joystick further to the right to get past that potion in the valve.

 

[avc8130]

Sounds like regen is fighting you, try pushing the joystick further to the right to get past that potion in the valve.

I've never experienced this before. Should I push further to the right and THEN hit the diverter? Or hit the diverter THEN push further right?

Does it matter?

ac

EDIT: Doesn't seem to matter. No matter what I did, same result. Curl works perfect, but diverter dead-heads when the joystick is moved right.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Sounds like regen is fighting you, try pushing the joystick further to the right to get past that potion in the valve.

If I understand regen properly, if I switch the connectors on the grapply so the cylinder how orientation is the same as the curl function this issue should go away and we would know it is regen that is fighting me?

ac

 

[kennyd]

If I understand regen properly, if I switch the connectors on the grapply so the cylinder how orientation is the same as the curl function this issue should go away and we would know it is regen that is fighting me?

ac

That will be a good test AC.

Generally, you switch the diverter BEFORE moving the joystick so you are not shifting the spools under pressure.

 

[avc8130]

Kenny,

You walked me to the problem. Regen.

I swapped the connectors on the grapple and VOILA! It works.

This is unfortunate though. I don't prefer the direction the grapple operates and I was hoping to switch it. Now I'm not sure that's possible?

I also guess you can't run a reversible hydraulic auger on a diverter with a regen loader :-(.

ac