Diesel Fuel & Storage Questions

Junkman · Aug 29, 2004

The bottom bung is a 3/8" NPT and not usable for anything other than a fuel oil burner line....

Soundguy · Aug 30, 2004

Why not?

Soundguy

Junkman · Aug 30, 2004

Because you will only be able to use a 3/8" bung for gravity feed into a pan about 6" high. (standard hight of a 275 gallon tank.) My guess is that it will flow about 1 quart per minute. Then you would have to transfer that fuel into a larger container to take to the tractor. Filling the tractor with 5 gallons of fuel would take about 20 minutes. Plus the associated time of transferring the fuel from the small container to a larger container. I don't believe that many people here would want to spend that amount and still call it convenient.
The only other exception to my original statement would be for a water drain, and that will depend on how the bung was installed, if it will be low enough to pull off all the water....

Soundguy · Aug 30, 2004

In my post i was actually refering to a suction line, and pump it out with a transfer pump. 3/8's should make a decent flow, when pressurized. We use oil transfer pumps at work to drain down large drain pans after oil changes, to fill our waste tank.. little 12v job.. seems like it was about 160 dollars.

I would also think that if you were feeding of the bottom like that that it would be very prudent to put in a water drain petcock, and also a bypassable spin on style fuel filter in line with the transfer pump.

Course.. using this method you could simply syphon from a top hole as well.

I agree gravity feed would have a head limited / dependent on the volume of the tank.. etc.

Soundguy

PineRidge · Aug 31, 2004

As an update I found a used 275 gallon oil tank over the weekend in my local newspaper. Today I cleaned out the 1 inch of crud in the bottom of the tank that had accumulated over the years using my pressure washer followed by 5 gallons of kerosene. I then had four 10" 1-1/4 inch nipples cut and attached them to floor flanges that will be lag screwed into 2 five foot runners made from 6 x 6 treated lumber. I want to spread out the weight of the 2200+ pound full tank of oil, hence the use of the runners. I gave the tank one coat of semi gloss black enamel today to spruce it up. I'll give it a second coat tomorrow if the humidity isn't too high.

I'm still looking for an electric pump but I'm planning on putting the refueling tank in my pole barn.

For those of you that already have fuel tanks do I need some type of open vent on the top of the tank as well as the fill? Currently there are 3 bungs in the top of my tank.

Junkman · Aug 31, 2004

One end of the tank should be lower by 1" than the other. You will need a fill pipe and a vent. Also needed is a vent whistle (Scully Ventalarm) and a Scully fill pipe adapter. The vent whistle is so the driver knows when the tank is full. After the first time it is filled, he has no way of knowing how much is in the tank and the whistle is a safety device that signals when the oil has reached the top of the tank. The Scully fill pipe adapter is the device that the oil truck hose nozzle screws onto to make a positive connection. Both of these are screwed onto stub nipples that go into the top bungs of the tank. The vent goes at the low end and the fill goes at the high end. The pump goes in the middle. At the bottom of the tank on one of the bulkheads is a 3/8" or 1/2" pipe bung. This is the end that should be the low end. Install a close nipple into this bung, a Firematic fitting, and then a ball valve. This is how you will draw off the water that the tank will accumulate. All tanks sweat to some extent. Sometimes the bottom bung is in the tank bulkhead and sometimes it is in the very bottom. It will be up to the "installer" to determine what is the best and safest method to do all piping. All pipe should be assembled with pipe dope. This is better than using Teflon tape. The best pipe dope to use would be Rectorseal #5. I would not use 6" x 6" runners, but 2" x 8" pressure treat lumber. You want this to be stable and the wider boards will give you more stability.

PineRidge · Sep 1, 2004

Junk I was with you right up until you said, "Firematic fitting." What, pray-tell is that? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Kindly elaborate for me........

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

That is the small valve with a quarter sized head on the top that you screw down to open the valve. It stays in this position forever....... well, that is, unless there is a fire. In the event of fire, the head of the valve will melt and the valve will automatically close. A safety feature that will set you back about $10.

PineRidge · Sep 1, 2004

Junk I could understand installing a valve like that for safety sake if my tank was connected to an oil furnace where I was drawing from the bottom of the tank on a daily basis. Lets not forget this tank is going to be used for diesel fuel for my TC-40D not to heat my home. And I will be drawing off the top of the tank via an electric dispensing pump. Since the bottom bung will only be used if and when there is a condensate buildup I'm going to opt for a ball valve with a nipple and a cap on the end of it for an added safety measure.

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

Here is a picture of what the pump mounting would look like. The bung (1 1/2") will need to be increased in size with a 2" x 1 1/2" female to female adapter and a 1 1/2" close nipple. The picture shows a short 1" pipe for clarity only. This pipe will actually be long enough to reach within 6" of the bottom of the tank. The top hex adapter is 2" x 2" and has a 1" pipe thread in the middle that the dip tube screws into. Your electric pump will screw into this. Some brands of pumps might already be set up for 1 1/2" bungs and all this will not be necessary.

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

Picture of 2" x 2" x 1" bung adapter.

PineRidge · Sep 1, 2004

Junk where do I look for a 110 volt pump with an automatic nozzle? Do you have anything like that in your garage that you are looking to clear out? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BTW the pump bung is 2" on my tank.

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

Most of the electric pumps don't have a automatic nozzle. I have a new one and will send you a PM concerning it. In my garage, you never know what you will find. Junk....

JerryG · Sep 1, 2004

This is a general question, to anyone. Most on TBN, when they go to look for fuel storage, begin speaking about pumps, either hand or electric. Then they need the wiring. I know in my area of the country, most farm storage of fuel is in overhead tanks and are gravity feed. Why not just make your fuel station simple and do it this way?

PineRidge · Sep 1, 2004

Jerry this 275 gallon tank will be inside my pole barn and I don't want the 2000 pounds of fuel high enough off the concrete that it would take to fuel my TC-40D. I would rather keep the tank low on the deck and add the electric pump. In my case it's just a personal preference.

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

The problem with overhead storage is that most states require them to be within a diked area to confine the fuel in the event of a leak. Compliance is not always done, but if the tank leaks, you will have a mess of a hazardous spill clean up bill.

JerryG · Sep 1, 2004

<font color="blue"> The problem with overhead storage is that most states require them to be within a diked area to confine the fuel in the event of a leak. Compliance is not always done, but if the tank leaks, you will have a mess of a hazardous spill clean up bill.</font>
I guess that I am missing something here. Why would a tank have more of chance to leak if it overhead, than it would sitting on the ground or floor?

Junkman · Sep 1, 2004

Gravity feed tanks are elevated because the gravity feed come off the bottom of the tank. If you break off the fitting on the bottom of the tank, there is no stopping the oil from emptying from the tank. This is the reason for the "dike". What I didn't mention is that dikes are concrete pads with cement walls around them to confine the oil... Check out your local oil dealer and you will see that is the way the above ground tanks are set up if the facility is fairly new. I believe that the regulation is that it must hold 40% of the total storage. Some older sites are grandfathered and don't have to meet this requirement.

JerryG · Sep 2, 2004

<font color="blue">If you break off the fitting on the bottom of the tank, there is no stopping the oil from emptying from the tank.</font>
That makes sense. I'll still take my overhead and not mess with a pump any day.

Junkman · Sep 2, 2004

There is one way to safely use an overhead tank that I can think of. It is the break away device that is used at service stations on the pump hoses. When they come apart, there is a device inside that seals off the flow of fuel to help eliminate a fire. Problem with gasoline is that there is some fuel in the hose that usually catches on fire. Sometimes this leads to greater fires starting. With diesel fuel, this wouldn't be a problem. If your building were to catch on fire and the tank fall to the ground, that would clinch the fire raging beyond control. Oil is hard to ignite, but when it is spilled onto an open flame in quantity, then it is a totally different story.