Culvert

[Richard]

I guess it''s called a culvert.

We have a drain running under our gravel driveway so the collection of rain water on the upside can drain down to the lake.

Years ago, we had the farm timbered by someone that wasn't thinking to clearly.

The agreement was in part that they would install a new culvert....and they did. THEN they started this part of the farm with their timbering and huge trucks.

The huge trucks crushed the culvert and when they were finished they were done. My father in law never held their feet to the fire to fix it.

So, today it's now washed out.

It looks like the drain itself is (I'm guessing since I've yet to dig up the end of it) Anyways, looks like it's 10" correguated plastic.

What I'm wondering is what should I replace it with if in fact, it's crushed as it appears to be?

Would schedule 40 work? Just put more corregated in?

I'm planning on ripping it out with the backhoe which will give me a two foot swath. I can lay anything in there. Question is what would work best and be strongest.

Also, I understand that you want 50% or was it 75% of the diameter as coverage on top. So if the pipe is say, 12" diameter, you'd want maybe 8" of fill on TOP of it to spread the weight. (something like that)

This isn't TOO deep so that might be the problem. I'd like strong material.

 

[747driver]

First off...what kind of traffic is going over this culvert/road ? If it gets alot of use and heavy vehicles then i would opt to install the metal corrugated pipe.

 

[paulsharvey]

Your not going to find Sch-40 PVC in sizes you need for culvert unless you get into exotic stuff. Basically for culverts, the smallest size is normally 15" diameter. Your choices of material is corrugated galvanized steel; asphalt coated corrugated steel; PVC; HDPE; Concrete; and ABS.

Corrugated steel, in 15" is moderately light, moderately cheap, moderately long life, and easy to install.

HDPE is fairly cheap, weaker, and should last forever if not over loaded, it is light, but that can be a down side, as it can float up if you have a high water table

RCP, Reinforced Concrete Pipe; in round or elliptical; is heaviest, strongest, long life, and you need a real hoe to install. It's probably most expensive, and will out live your children's children. The pipe itself will probably never fail, just make sure the joints have the rubbers and are pushed home

Black ABS is probably the cheapeat, weakest, and easiest. It's widely used in areas for private development, but DOT doesn't use it


If it was me, I have used and like RCP, but if you don't have a back hoe (not a toy on the back of a 30 hp tractor) I'd use Corrugated metal, with at least 6-12" of cover, in 15".

 

[Creamer]

50% of pipe diameter minimum of coverage assuming it is hardpacked. I wouldn't use anything but corrugated, galvanized pipe because of its strength, durability, and cost. I would not go any smaller than 10" just to keep trash from plugging it.

 

[Looking4new]

Corrugated, galvanized 24" diameter and at least a foot of cover. Sand in the bottom and sides of the hole up to within 6" of grade then whatever gravel on top of that. Don't forget to pack the sand.

 

[Streetcar]

The secret to long life for culvert is the backfill. You want the trench three times pipe diameter.
How much fill can you get over pipe.
I always put in a 12" minimum diameter pipe to prevent clogs
Galvanized pipe is typical culvert in Ohio
Pvc pipe would need a minimum of two feet of cover for typical road loading

 

[paulsharvey]

Corrugated, galvanized 24" diameter and at least a foot of cover. Sand in the bottom and sides of the hole up to within 6" of grade then whatever gravel on top of that. Don't forget to pack the sand.

Unless the ditch has a high flow, 18" is the standard FDOT driveway size, and is fine 90% of the time. 15" isn't much cheaper and offers no real advantage over 18" unless you have a shallow ditch, in which case 11"×17" ERCP is the ticket.

 

[paulsharvey]

A picture of the ditch or swale would help a lot.

As a short word of advice, go no less than 16 ft in straight away, or 24 ft if near a turn/or at the road; 32 ft is better. You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss judge a 16 ft crossing in a turn radius, with a trailer


Edit: https://www.menards.com/main/p-1444427395197.htm. something like this, from the supplier of your choice. Asphalt coated galvanized is used if your in a highly acidic area (tannin in swamp water east the zinc)

Re-edit: here is a price list, installed by local County in North Florida. Mostly local governments won't install for private people, but Bradford County FL does

INSTALLED*CULVERT PRICES*EFFECTIVE 01*23*07*
18*X*24*NEW*$518.00* REPLACEMENT $332.00*
18*X*30*NEW*$576.00* REPLACEMENT $392.00*
18*X*32*W/MITERED*ENDS*NEW*$627.00*REPLACEMENT $418.00*
18*X*8’ MITERED*ENDS,*$106.00*EACH, $212.00*PER PAIR
EXTRA FOOTAGE*$9.90*PER FOOT*
24*X*24*NEW*$594.00* REPLACEMENT $409.00*
24*X*30*NEW*$674.00* REPLACEMENT $489.00*
24*X*36*W/MITERED*ENDS*NEW*$784.00*REPLACEMENT $570.00*
24*X*8’ MITERED*ENDS*$169.00*EACH $338.00*PAIR
EXTRA FOOTAGE*$13.11*PER FOOT
30*X*24*NEW*$663.00* REPLACEMENT $478.00*
30*X*30*NEW*$759.00* REPLACEMENT $574.00*
EXTRA FOOTAGE*$15.95*PER FOOT
18”*BAND*$18.00*EACH*
24”*BAND*$24.00*EACH*
30”*BAND*$30.00*EACH*
COUNTY*POLICY*
1. The*county will not*sell culverts to*private land*owners. 2. The* county will only install culverts on county right* of way for
entrance to*property owner*residence. 3. The* county will not* install* culverts for commercial* firms or
residential developers. 4. If owners of private residence provides own culvert and* it* meets
county specifications. The* county will install* for $175.00. A*
permit*is still required*at*no*cost. Dirt*only, no lime*rock.

 

[DJ54]

Do you have any large contractors in the area..?? Especially a bridge contractor..?? If you do, and decide on 12" pipe, see if they have any scrap tubular piling. It is 12", about 3/16" thick, and spiral welded. It make great culvert. I have 2 driveways with it in it. Both put in in 1971, and hardly any deterioration at all. Both have about 1' of cover on them, and have had loaded semi's drive over it with no damage at all.

It can normally be bought at scrap price. Last I bought for an extension on the one drive the scrap prices were up, but still only cost me $7 per foot. If you have a welder, torch, and grinder, you can butt weld them together. I even took some 2" X 1/8" strap, and made welded collars in case it would happen to flex for some reason.

 

[Coyote machine]

Double walled, smooth inside, polyethylene, corrugated on outside. One male end, one female end, never wears out like galvanized metal. Used here in VT on secondary roads, impervious to silt, salt, corrosion, etc. Properly set and backfilled, will not collapse. Easy to set, easy to connect to secondary sections.

Just had town install one 3' diameter, 3 sections, 20' each across my road where my pond empties out. Replaced old failed galvanized steel single wall with corrugation inside and out. Culvert had collapsed because section where salt and water passed rotted away- completely. Not a problem with poly culverts.:confused3:

 

[Richard]

I've not read everything yet. I butchered some of the typo's in my comment and title!

Anyways, I do have an industrial backhoe (JCB). It's got a 2' bucket on the end.

This is essentially our driveway with an occasional delivery truck. The timber trucks were obviously not typical.

We have two ways in/out of here and the wife uses the other. I tend to use this one as it goes by the dock so I can see what's going on out here from start to finish.

The field above this will collect a lot of water during a hard rain. I'll see if I can attach a picture of the field. I don't know that this part of the driveway will show. (turns out it doesn't)

This is the field that collects and aims right to the road, washing it out.

If I recall, it seems our neighbor has a concrete culvert left over from his construction. Might be too big. I'll bet he'd love to get rid of it. Might also be too short.

What is a good size?

If I can try to describe the area....this field slopes towards the lake. It's fairly flat. I don't have a natural slope where I can dig down 5' and install something. I'm balancing opposing forces of trying to install a large pipe in an otherwise flat area and not creating a hump in the road or, digging it so deep I have dirt covering half the opening.

I'll admit I've never installed a culvert nor pulled one out as we're going to have to do. This will be a learning experience.

I'll try to get a better picture.

 

[Richard]

To be clear about above picture....the gravel road is off to the right and goes behind the camera. My back would have been facing this culvert area so this picture shows everything that comes directly at you.

 

[oosik]

There are two areas on my driveway with culverts. They are both 16" galvanized, corrugated pipe. Neither has ever seen a drop of water. Been here 34+ years and have checked them twice - to make sure they were not plugged. Seems all they have been good for, so far, is a "hidie-hole" for local skunks & raccoons.

One is where the driveway crosses a valley - it has 8+ feet of cover - and the other has around 3+ feet of cover. Since they never pass water - I expect they will last forever. They were installed where expected drainage water would pond but because its so dry around here, there's never been any ponded water.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Double walled, smooth inside, polyethylene, corrugated on outside. One male end, one female end, never wears out like galvanized metal. Used here in VT on secondary roads, impervious to silt, salt, corrosion, etc. Properly set and backfilled, will not collapse. Easy to set, easy to connect to secondary sections.

Just had town install one 3' diameter, 3 sections, 20' each across my road where my pond empties out. Replaced old failed galvanized steel single wall with corrugation inside and out. Culvert had collapsed because section where salt and water passed rotted away- completely. Not a problem with poly culverts.:confused3:

I agree with using the PVC culverts. Galvanized steel is old school and not the best solution. They are not any better than the corrugated PVC when properly placed. I installed a 12" per county code in my driveway that was shallow buried because of the ditch depth and barely has 2-3" of coverage. Concrete trucks, fully loaded 18 wheelers and of course my trucks, tractors etc have passed over it with no damage. It was backfilled with crushed limestone all the way. OF course it is better to have more coverage but if the fill is compacted around it good, very little pressure is exerted on it when a heavy load is passed over.
I would not waste my money on a galvanized steel culvert, the plastic is high enough in price as it is.

NOTE: The galvanized steel are better if you plan to dig it up and move it lots of times which is why some highway dept. use them. It is not easy to dig up a plastic one without damaging it. I have dug up 3 of them on our farm so for with only some minor damage to a couple of the corrugations. You have to dig completely down both sides as close as possible then lift them up from one end to break them loose from the compacted soil around the corrugations. They don't come up easily either.

QUESTION: Are you sure your culvert has collapsed thru the drive way portion or is it only one the ends. You may be able to salvage it if only the ends are collapsed.

 

[LD1]

I agree with those that say to use the black double wall plastic stuff. A 20' stick of 10 or 12" should be around $150-$200 IIRC. Properly placed, and with 6-8" on top of it, it isnt going to collapse.

Depending on how the driveway is shaped, you really dont want to go too big and have a big "hump" to drive over. So figure your elevation, and go with something small enough to give you a level road bed. If one culvert isnt enough. use two or three spaced a bit apart to prevent washing out between them.

At my old house, I had 2 8" culverts under the drive, with ~4" of fill on top. Had several full loads if gravel of large dump trucks cross, full 11yd cement trucks, etc all cross with no issues at all.

 

[DJ54]

If if it were near the road, I'd suggest at least 15". When I worked @ ODOT, I can't tell you how many 12" culverts we had to go unplug, because a plastic milk jug was plugging the end of the pipe. Years back, their minimum was 12", but went to 15" just for this reason. A milk jug will pass through a 15".

Rule of thumb, is 2% fall on a culvert here.

The smooth bore pipe is the way to go. Way less friction, and more flow rate than corrugated, let alone the extra strength. I've installed many feet of it over the years. If it takes more then one joint, spray the o-ring joint with vegetable cooking spray. It makes them snap together so much easier, and will not damage the pipe, or o-ring.

 

[s219]

I like the smooth bore HDPE pipe too. Light enough that one man can handle a 20' section of 15" pipe. I use soapy water on the o-ring joints but will have to try the cooking spray trick next time.

 

[Richard]

Some pictures to try to give a perspective.

 

[Jim Timber]

I think if you didn't have problems with the 10" before, that a double walled replacement would be the way to go. Looks like the truck missed the road and that's why it got wrecked. If that size traffic is something you'll have with any frequency, I'd fix the road to handle the needed width when you place the new culvert.

It looks like you had plenty of top cover for the one you had. 12" of good fill will hold a semi.

 

[Richard]

It looks like you had plenty of top cover for the one you had. 12" of good fill will hold a semi.

Thank you! That's good to know. So in a sense, I can 'replace' verses 'fix'

Meaning, if I can get it back to working, I don't necessarily have to improve anything.

Generally speaking this is going to be automobile traffic and an occasional delivery van (though most of the time they use the road you see to the side, that one comes from the mailbox area.

I didn't really notice the long tail on this until I took the picture. I also agree that the uphill side got crushed or buried.

If I can dig this out intact, I can cut the crushed end off, slide the whole thing forward two feet and put it back.

I won't know until it's all visible of course.


Question: How to dig out?

Should I dig to the side(s) of it to relieve any side pressure, yet making my trench almost 5-6 feet wide? (remember I have a two foot bucket)

Should I just try to grab an end of it and lift straight up/out?

Given that the pipe looks to be in good condition for the most part, I'd like to not destroy it taking it out.

The best way to do that would be?

(there are no utilities at all near this so I have free space)