CT225 head gasket?

[Checkoutmyjunk]

Hello all,

My first tractor, and I’m already regretting the decision.

The thing over heated just tooling around the neighborhood. Pointed the heat gun at the head, block and radiator, all indicated I was not actually overheating despite the temp gauge being pegged.

Next drive, some days later. The headlights blow immediately, shrugged my shoulders and took it for a spin, no over heating. Notice the top rad hose was tight and looking bulbous. Drove it home and parked it.

Come out an hour later to find it blew the top hose and puked coolant.

Looking on the right side, rear of the engine block where it meets the head, I see all kind of seepage marks. Im hoping this is spilled diesel. Can anyone comment?


If this isn’t in need of major engine work, what’s a good asking price with just under 1000 hours on the clock?

A few other questions I’ll answer upfront

Yes, it looked like it was holding pressure
No, I don’t know much, I bought it and drove it twice.
There is no coolant on the oil dipstick and the oil isn’t high on the stick
The rad cap could be to blame, it had a few drops of coolant on it before this last trip and the the overflow level never changed.

 

[winston1]

No doubt something is going on. Seeing the appearance of leakage on top of the head is mysterious. Is that possibly from the busted hose? Have you replaced the busted hose and run again? You need to verify where the leakage is at.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

Thanks for the response winston1,

What looks like crystalized coolant on the back of the head (pictured) was there before the hose blew.

Calling around for a replacement hose has me discouraged. The BestLine stores are disconnected from the factory bobcat dealers. The all seem to have different parts available, and both parties tell me that bobcat HQ is air shipping orders that were do about a month ago.

I figured I take the old shotgun approach and replace the cap, hose, coolant, thermostat and water pump if the parts were available and not too expensive. I can't seem to find the cap period! The hose can be ordered to my localish best line.

 

[tman1020]

I don’t think that’s diesel fuel. I’m not sure what you have going on but somethings definitely up. I have had my overflow leak out when I’m on uneven ground but never had a hose blow out. I’m guessing you have something blocked in there some where. Keep us updated with what you find.

 

[Bobcat Tractor Mac]

Thanks for the response winston1,

What looks like crystalized coolant on the back of the head (pictured) was there before the hose blew.

Calling around for a replacement hose has me discouraged. The BestLine stores are disconnected from the factory bobcat dealers. The all seem to have different parts available, and both parties tell me that bobcat HQ is air shipping orders that were do about a month ago.

I figured I take the old shotgun approach and replace the cap, hose, coolant, thermostat and water pump if the parts were available and not too expensive. I can't seem to find the cap period! The hose can be ordered to my localish best line.

Radiator Cap is PN 7002330 and shows in Bobcat's stock.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

Just following up, I hate when folks ghost a thread!

I put a new hose on and topped the coolant off for a test. Just like the last time(s) I could see that the top radiator hose was beginning to swell and that made me check the hose to the overflow tank. It was completely clogged (tman1020 called it!) with a white / gray sandy substance. At this point the coolant that over flowed onto the floor had been there for several day (don't judge me I ran out of kitty litter) and it was beginning to thicken. Blockage, sandy substance, thickened coolant, over heating and what looks like seepage around the head gasket, it was all adding up to head gasket in a bottle.


Knowing that the cooling system could not function with a blocked overflow hose, I had a plan. I cleaned the overflow out as best as I could, replaced the top radiator hose and topped her off for a test run. I fired it up and let it come up to temperature. With the hose unblocked, the pressure that was building in the top hose was now able to vent to the overflow and boil over there.

I purchased a block tester, the chemical kind that changes color when exhaust gases are present in the coolant. I tested the coolant for exhaust a number of times and never found any exhaust in the coolant. Next I drained the all the coolant and flushed/ heat cycled the system several times. Each time the system never over heated, I ran the machine around my property and worked it to give it a real world test. The temps mostly stayed in the two dots but occasionally creeped up near the top of the range, just not into the red.

The headlights blowing turned out to be the switch, and a loose battery connection. I new switch is on order.

Here is what puzzles me now, it still seems to boil into the overflow tank, but not boil over. I still need to clean under the hood, remove all the white residue and coolant I spilled to see if its weeping from anywhere.

• winston1 - not sure, I bought it that way. I can say that since I switched from green coolant to pink the crust around the head gasket now has a pink tint. I belive that has more to do with me spilling the coolant when I was filling the over flow tank.​

• tman1020 - you are correct there was a blockage! ​

• Bobcat Tractor Mac - The cap is preforming as it should, thank you!​

 

[winston1]

Do the exterior and interior fins of the radiator appear to be clean? Good air flow. With cap off are you getting a good flow?

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

Do the exterior and interior fins of the radiator appear to be clean? Good air flow. With cap off are you getting a good flow?

Yes and Yes. It's a little more frothy than I am comfortable with. If I run it with the rad cap off, it will boil over. I haven't tried since I corrected the clogged over flow line

 

[Gator6x4]

You have said nothing about replacing the thermostat, did you do that?

Do you have a Auto Supply close by or another auto parts location that rents tools. If so rent a radiator pressure tester and test the cooling system. Dyes are not a good indicator tester for a internal leakage problem.

The pressure tester is simple to use. Remove the radiator cap install the cap on the pressure tester on the radiator make sure it is tight and making a good seal. Pump the pump until the gauge shows fifteen psi. Stand by and watch the gauge and listen for escaping air and look around the outside of the cylinder head for signs of moisture. If the gauge goes down or does not hold the 15psi you have a internal problem. Also check your engine oil for signs of moisture.

If mine I would not be doing any test runs or using until I located the problem. A new engine is expensive.

Also the unit is made to run with the radiator cap installed and tightly closed. That is the reason for the overflow tank. It allows for the system to be closed and not contain air or air pockets. Air or excessive expansion fluid is vented into the tank when hot. As the engine cools the fluid is sucked back into the radiator.

Bottom line and this is just an opinion on my part and based on the sandy colored substance you have discovered is the unit has been run with either a pure water mixture or wrong anti freeze and the internal coolant passages in either block or head has been degraded.

Diesels with what is called wet cylinders require a anti cavitation anti freeze. I use anti cavitation Anti Freeze in all my diesel units. Tractor Supply or other Anti Freeze suppliers in my area sells the product.

Diesel Engine Coolants

Proper cooling is critical to any engine. Without some way to remove the heat created during the combustion process the engine will quickly become a lump of scrap metal....

www.rvtechmag.com

 

[Jimmy Joe]

It sounds like the tractor is new to you is the sandy sludge in the overflow tube stop leak that the previous owner put in trying to remedy the same problem?

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

You have said nothing about replacing the thermostat, did you do that?

Do you have a Auto Supply close by or another auto parts location that rents tools. If so rent a radiator pressure tester and test the cooling system. Dyes are not a good indicator tester for a internal leakage problem.

The pressure tester is simple to use. Remove the radiator cap install the cap on the pressure tester on the radiator make sure it is tight and making a good seal. Pump the pump until the gauge shows fifteen psi. Stand by and watch the gauge and listen for escaping air and look around the outside of the cylinder head for signs of moisture. If the gauge goes down or does not hold the 15psi you have a internal problem. Also check your engine oil for signs of moisture.

If mine I would not be doing any test runs or using until I located the problem. A new engine is expensive.

Also the unit is made to run with the radiator cap installed and tightly closed. That is the reason for the overflow tank. It allows for the system to be closed and not contain air or air pockets. Air or excessive expansion fluid is vented into the tank when hot. As the engine cools the fluid is sucked back into the radiator.

Bottom line and this is just an opinion on my part and based on the sandy colored substance you have discovered is the unit has been run with either a pure water mixture or wrong anti freeze and the internal coolant passages in either block or head has been degraded.

Diesels with what is called wet cylinders require a anti cavitation anti freeze. I use anti cavitation Anti Freeze in all my diesel units. Tractor Supply or other Anti Freeze suppliers in my area sells the product.

Diesel Engine Coolants

Proper cooling is critical to any engine. Without some way to remove the heat created during the combustion process the engine will quickly become a lump of scrap metal....

www.rvtechmag.com

I did not replace the thermostat, it was on my radar but when I saw the water circulating and the temp gauge moving, I assumed it was functioning. Is my logic flawed?

I have been looking for an excuse to buy a pressure tester, so I picked one up on the way home. I pumped her up to 16psi at 5pm and didn't get back out to check on it till after 9pm, it was dead nuts on 16psi!

I did check the oil and have continued to do so, not just for a milk shake, but also looking at the level incase the water is finding a way to the bottom of the pan without mixing.

I did run it for a few hours last weekend and it ran well, the temp seemed to creep up when driving. I am a home owner and if I am honest, this is going to live a easy life. I put about a mile of street driving on it between the two houses. I used the tractor to move logs and clear some ground. I thought it was odd that the temps stayed reasonable while working the machine, but creeped up to all but the red when just driving it. We are talking 2,000 RPM in M, on hilly pavement.

Since I flushed the cooling system, it has been functioning as prescribed. What makes me nervous is overflow constantly bubbling / boiling when it runs. That is why I tested the coolant with the chemical test 900 times. I am hoping that the bubbling / boiling is normal or that it's an indication the radiator cap isn't functioning properly. I assume the thermostat and the water pump are okay because when I shoot the block and radiator with an IR temp gun, it's never over 160 and I can see the temp creep up and then the back down.

I used Shell 9404106021 Rotella ELC Antifreeze, it's listed as having "cavitation protection", not sure if that the same thing. It's

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

It sounds like the tractor is new to you is the sandy sludge in the overflow tube stop leak that the previous owner put in trying to remedy the same problem?

Yes, that's my fear too. I don't want to believe it nor do I want to sell it to the next guy without knowing it's "good to go". I'd rather fix a head gasket and know it's good than assume that the mystery substance I found was not a crummy patch to hold it over just long enough for the next guy to buy it.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

 

[Gator6x4]

If that is a photo from your expansion tank, if mine I would pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop and have them to clean it. That is a lot of gunk floating around in a radiator.

 

[winston1]

Bubbling/boiling is not normal. Sure sounds like a leaking head gasket. There is lot's of pressure in the cylinders when she's running. Way more than the 16 lbs you tested.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

If it needs a headgasket, I am not sure I am up for the job, I'm just spread too thin right now. My local "Bobcat" dealer is a Best Line. Should I take it to them?

 

[winston1]

I am not declaring your head gasket is bad so don't move to fast on my thoughts. Will go on to say your temperature should not be creeping up as you stated in post #11. Crank it with the cap off when cold and see if you have a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

I plugged up the overflow cap with the tester at zero psi. Within a minute or so it shot the gauge up to 25psi. The top hose started leaking from the pressure but the engine was still cool. What other than a head gasket would cause a constant stream of bubbles in the coolant when it runs?

 

[winston1]

I suppose a cracked head, however, I would say large percentage would lean toward head gasket. Either way, the head has to come off. Once again, on my part, long distance diagnosis on my part is to be taken as opinion only and not fact.

 

[Checkoutmyjunk]

Hello all, just wanted to follow up. I put the tractor up for a little to deal with other projects, I bought this only because I assumed it would not be another one.....

I pulled the head off last Friday and boy, I was not happy to see the water passages blocked by the headgasket in a can. See images below.


My plan:

1. Pull the radiator and see if the local radiator shop thinks they can clean it up for me
2. Take the old head gasket and bolts to the Kioti dealer near by and verify the gasket and bolts they held form me match
3. Pick up any additional gaskets I need like the water pump, intake and exhaust gaskets
4. Pickup a set of long bottle brushes to clean out as much of this BS miracle head gasket elixir out of the engine
5. Clean, Clean, Clean everything. At this point the fuel system, oiling system, cooling system in one way is open and I need to used compressed air and mechanical means to clean the passages as best as I can
6. Bring cleaned head to work and check if for warping on a surface plate (I work at a machine shop)

My fear is the little bits of this grit I can't remove will "re-activate" and form new blockages in the system. I don't know if the stuff left behind is already "activated" or if it can react the way it did originally time and time again.

I can't imagine I am the first person to encounter this much head gasket in a can sludge, someone out there has been through this before!