JerryG
Super Member
<font color="blue"> You can show me this and that but I have had it happen in the real world </font>
Oil
Oil
cordless drill battery
- Thread starter johndeere2210
- Start date
- Views: 3847
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
gsxr110, I learned more about your heli than I did about your battery/battery charger.
<font color="blue">it states in my 9-channel Futaba PCM manual about memory effect on its' own battery pack </font>
If I was Futaba or any or any other manufacture of stupid battery chargers and I could shift product liability to some abstract phenomena attributable to technology I would do the same thing. By the same token if I was a manufacture of smart chargers I would profess use of my charger would eliminate the dreaded memory effect.
Memory effect was seen originally in spacecraft batteries subjected to a repeated discharge/charge cycle that was a fixed percentage of total capacity (due to the earth's shadow). After many cycles, when called upon to provide the full capacity, the battery failed to do so. This performance could be corrected by a single deep discharge and proper recharge. Your application is hardly like this.
I have no doubt that the performance you are getting from your batteries is less than it could be. What you are calling "memory effect" is most probably a result of overcharge by a stupid charger or premature charge termination from a stupid charger.
<font color="blue">it states in my 9-channel Futaba PCM manual about memory effect on its' own battery pack </font>
If I was Futaba or any or any other manufacture of stupid battery chargers and I could shift product liability to some abstract phenomena attributable to technology I would do the same thing. By the same token if I was a manufacture of smart chargers I would profess use of my charger would eliminate the dreaded memory effect.
Memory effect was seen originally in spacecraft batteries subjected to a repeated discharge/charge cycle that was a fixed percentage of total capacity (due to the earth's shadow). After many cycles, when called upon to provide the full capacity, the battery failed to do so. This performance could be corrected by a single deep discharge and proper recharge. Your application is hardly like this.
I have no doubt that the performance you are getting from your batteries is less than it could be. What you are calling "memory effect" is most probably a result of overcharge by a stupid charger or premature charge termination from a stupid charger.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( .....most probably a result of overcharge by a stupid charger or premature charge termination from a stupid charger. ) )</font>
I doubt that since I have tried that pack on a $150 charge/discharger (best non-lipo out there) and one another charger about 3X more in price (a Schulze, top of the line ). Stupid charger, I do not think so.
Again, I know the capaciity of the cells since they get tested (with a fluke meter) once per month before charge, after discharge and after charging. I also know the temp before and after and what it should be around, along with the motor.
So let summarize here, someone on TBN says there is no memory effect while all the r/c flyers say yes along with manuafactures of the products (batteries, charger, heli manufactures, etc).........hmmmmm. Never mind that I have had it happen to one pack and the other started to die by about 40 seconds to 1 minute unless I cycled it when not being used; along with the RX & TX batterie(s). Thanks but I know that I have had it happen, along with other heli owners.
I doubt that since I have tried that pack on a $150 charge/discharger (best non-lipo out there) and one another charger about 3X more in price (a Schulze, top of the line ). Stupid charger, I do not think so.
Again, I know the capaciity of the cells since they get tested (with a fluke meter) once per month before charge, after discharge and after charging. I also know the temp before and after and what it should be around, along with the motor.
So let summarize here, someone on TBN says there is no memory effect while all the r/c flyers say yes along with manuafactures of the products (batteries, charger, heli manufactures, etc).........hmmmmm. Never mind that I have had it happen to one pack and the other started to die by about 40 seconds to 1 minute unless I cycled it when not being used; along with the RX & TX batterie(s). Thanks but I know that I have had it happen, along with other heli owners.
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( performance could be corrected by a single deep discharge and proper recharge )</font>
I'll agree with you there.. Many rechargeable battery issues come from improper charge/discharge schemes. However.. how many people do you know that completely discharge their batteries before charging? heck.. in some situations you can't. The average consumer is not going to take a piece of equipment apart to get at an installed battery pack in order to attatch a small value, high wattage load resistor and let it set there and discharge, let alone know what or how/why any of this helps.
Some from cheapy handheld devices that simply use switches and motors ( handheld cordless screwdrivers.. etc.) could theoretically discharge by leaving the button held for a while, as the motor windins provided the load. However, many of the newer electric devices are PWM controlled, and the 'logic' shuts down while there is still non-negligible power left in the cells. I have an 18v sawzall. When it gets to the point that the blades no longer 'go', and the PWM wine dies down.. that battery pack is still setting at about 5v unloaded.. perhaps 3v loaded. No way for the average user to discharge that by using the device for the load.
In the 80's I have a small battery discharger I mocked up on a plank of wood using a small automotive lamp. I made it for cam corder batteries. Worked great, and I got another couple years out of cells if i used it correctly.
Speaking of the RC world. I think I still have an old fastcharger that actually had a loading resistor built in. You pulle dthe old cell.. set a timer and let it 'cook' for 15 minutes.. then you threw it on the car battery for 15 minutes. it worked decently.. and kept you from needing a ac power source there.. however my guess is that the discharge cycle was insuficient.. and the charge cycle was way insuficient.. not to mention the battery was way hot during both cycles.
I think most of the problem lies simply in consumer (dumb user) grade equipment....
Soundguy
I'll agree with you there.. Many rechargeable battery issues come from improper charge/discharge schemes. However.. how many people do you know that completely discharge their batteries before charging? heck.. in some situations you can't. The average consumer is not going to take a piece of equipment apart to get at an installed battery pack in order to attatch a small value, high wattage load resistor and let it set there and discharge, let alone know what or how/why any of this helps.
Some from cheapy handheld devices that simply use switches and motors ( handheld cordless screwdrivers.. etc.) could theoretically discharge by leaving the button held for a while, as the motor windins provided the load. However, many of the newer electric devices are PWM controlled, and the 'logic' shuts down while there is still non-negligible power left in the cells. I have an 18v sawzall. When it gets to the point that the blades no longer 'go', and the PWM wine dies down.. that battery pack is still setting at about 5v unloaded.. perhaps 3v loaded. No way for the average user to discharge that by using the device for the load.
In the 80's I have a small battery discharger I mocked up on a plank of wood using a small automotive lamp. I made it for cam corder batteries. Worked great, and I got another couple years out of cells if i used it correctly.
Speaking of the RC world. I think I still have an old fastcharger that actually had a loading resistor built in. You pulle dthe old cell.. set a timer and let it 'cook' for 15 minutes.. then you threw it on the car battery for 15 minutes. it worked decently.. and kept you from needing a ac power source there.. however my guess is that the discharge cycle was insuficient.. and the charge cycle was way insuficient.. not to mention the battery was way hot during both cycles.
I think most of the problem lies simply in consumer (dumb user) grade equipment....
Soundguy
Soundguy- I still have one myself for my old r/c cars. The old ones worked but killed the cells at the same time. At think at one time I melted the outer pack! I never did discharged at that time. Never knew about it…The 15minutes was a long time when waiting.....
The chargers/dischargers today go from $100 to over $1,000K and are very complex and smart. I agree in the past or on drills the discharge is not 100%; but, on my r/c heli packs it is. Mine are 100% discharged going by my dischargers/chargers LCD screen and my Fluke meter. In a drill package costing over $250 I would not care too much, but when I have over $1,000 in batteries packs alone, I care a great deal and amps are my friends! I need to know for flight times. Every electron is needed when turning over 1,800 head rpm with a 5.5 foot diameter main rotor blades! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The chargers/dischargers today go from $100 to over $1,000K and are very complex and smart. I agree in the past or on drills the discharge is not 100%; but, on my r/c heli packs it is. Mine are 100% discharged going by my dischargers/chargers LCD screen and my Fluke meter. In a drill package costing over $250 I would not care too much, but when I have over $1,000 in batteries packs alone, I care a great deal and amps are my friends! I need to know for flight times. Every electron is needed when turning over 1,800 head rpm with a 5.5 foot diameter main rotor blades! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
I know what you mean about 15 minutes being a long time to wait while at the track. Even with a couple packs going, you could drain one befor ethe other was done. We'd keep a cooler on hand, cause some of the batteries would come out of the car too hot to touch.
At least using 'black flag' frequencies we never had transmitter cross talk problems.
Yep.. a 9.99 kmart e-screwdriver doesn't worry me much.. however my 18v sawzall wasn't a cheap toy.. I need that battery to last..
Soundguy
At least using 'black flag' frequencies we never had transmitter cross talk problems.
Yep.. a 9.99 kmart e-screwdriver doesn't worry me much.. however my 18v sawzall wasn't a cheap toy.. I need that battery to last..
Soundguy
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
Chris, <font color="blue"> However.. how many people do you know that completely discharge their batteries before charging? </font>
"Completely" hopfully none. I can't think of a better way to kill a NiCd battery than a high current load to zero volts. The deep discharge I'm talking about is ~ 1 volt/cell I'm guessing the vast majorityof user do this. I use my drill until it slows down (discharged) I use my flashlight until it goes dim(discharged)
A NiCad cell voltage is nearly flat during discharge @ 1.2 volts, this drops off very rapidly when discharged. One thing that should not be done is to try to get the last ounce of performance from your NiCd powered equipment. For example if you rest a drill for a few minutes after it's performance has degraded it will recover and drive "one more screw". NiCd batteries discharged below 1 volt per cell will cell reverse. This doesn't mean a cell at +0.8 volts will become -0.8 volts, it will be a few millivolts negative. Contrary to what some of Rat's references contend this is a recoverably situation upon recharge if the charger is smart enough to go into ~ 120% overcharge. This doesn't have to be a brilliant charger just one that terminates charge when the battery temperature is ~ 5-7 degrees C above ambient or on ~ 100mv of negative DV/DT. The rational for the overcharge is to equalize the charge in each cell. The larger the mismatch in cell charge the more likely cell reversal on discharge. However if you continue to run high currents thru a cell in cell reversal the cell potential will increase negatively and eventually destroy the cell. This high current scenario is exactly what happens when you try to get "one more screw)
"Completely" hopfully none. I can't think of a better way to kill a NiCd battery than a high current load to zero volts. The deep discharge I'm talking about is ~ 1 volt/cell I'm guessing the vast majorityof user do this. I use my drill until it slows down (discharged) I use my flashlight until it goes dim(discharged)
A NiCad cell voltage is nearly flat during discharge @ 1.2 volts, this drops off very rapidly when discharged. One thing that should not be done is to try to get the last ounce of performance from your NiCd powered equipment. For example if you rest a drill for a few minutes after it's performance has degraded it will recover and drive "one more screw". NiCd batteries discharged below 1 volt per cell will cell reverse. This doesn't mean a cell at +0.8 volts will become -0.8 volts, it will be a few millivolts negative. Contrary to what some of Rat's references contend this is a recoverably situation upon recharge if the charger is smart enough to go into ~ 120% overcharge. This doesn't have to be a brilliant charger just one that terminates charge when the battery temperature is ~ 5-7 degrees C above ambient or on ~ 100mv of negative DV/DT. The rational for the overcharge is to equalize the charge in each cell. The larger the mismatch in cell charge the more likely cell reversal on discharge. However if you continue to run high currents thru a cell in cell reversal the cell potential will increase negatively and eventually destroy the cell. This high current scenario is exactly what happens when you try to get "one more screw)
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
Mike, perhaps we are not talking apples to apples. are your NiCd's sealed or flooded cell technology. If they are sealed and you are discharging them to zero you are your own worst enemy.
The Futaba RX and TX packs are a cheap Nicad which states to completely discharge once per month& when not being used (for memory effect) Again this is from Fubota's manual and support team and about 99% of other r/c flyers. The TX packs will have a shorter life span when not following the rules for r/c.
The same rules apply for NiMH cells also, not lipo's. The cells MUST be discharged after EVERY use. That is from every flyer out there along with manufactures/dealers.
Own worst enemy???I will take the manufacture of the product over anyone that does not fly. Again, thanks but you are not the one paying over $500 for a controller. Buy this controller then prove it to me. Or buy a cheap $250 battery pack and let me know. Worst enemy, LOL.
The same rules apply for NiMH cells also, not lipo's. The cells MUST be discharged after EVERY use. That is from every flyer out there along with manufactures/dealers.
Own worst enemy???I will take the manufacture of the product over anyone that does not fly. Again, thanks but you are not the one paying over $500 for a controller. Buy this controller then prove it to me. Or buy a cheap $250 battery pack and let me know. Worst enemy, LOL.
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I can't think of a better way to kill a NiCd battery than a high current load to zero volts )</font>
I never mentioned any shunt loading for discharge.. rather something along the lines of a linear discharge.. either resistive.. or incandescant.
Like arguing with chineese about rice... I'd find it a hard roe to hoe to believe otherwise about not sufficiently discharging a nicad before recharging it. Just seen too many instances where that gives reduced performance.. over a good slow clean discharge and full recharge. And just for clarification.. we are not talking about a high current discharge.
Soundguy
I never mentioned any shunt loading for discharge.. rather something along the lines of a linear discharge.. either resistive.. or incandescant.
Like arguing with chineese about rice... I'd find it a hard roe to hoe to believe otherwise about not sufficiently discharging a nicad before recharging it. Just seen too many instances where that gives reduced performance.. over a good slow clean discharge and full recharge. And just for clarification.. we are not talking about a high current discharge.
Soundguy
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
<font color="blue"> "The Futaba RX and TX packs are a cheap Nicad which states to completely discharge once per month& when not being used (for memory effect) Again this is from Fubota's manual and support team and about 99% of other r/c flyers. The TX packs will have a shorter life span when not following the rules for r/c.
The same rules apply for NiMH cells also, not lipo's. The cells MUST be discharged after EVERY use. That is from every flyer out there along with manufactures/dealer" </font>
Thats great Mike, thats what you should do then. But since the question was about cordless drill batteries, lets not confuse folks. Just as you say everyone one in RC world knows this (I'll take your word for it since I don't know any), then had you even bothered to check the two references I gave a URL for among many hundreds available, you would see that Dewalt, Bosch, Porter Cable, Hitachi, Makita, Fein, Milwaukee, Panasonic and others would definitely tell you NOT to do this. The battery is typically the most expensive part of the product to the manufactuer. I would suggest folks with battery operated tools follow what the manufactuers offer as you with Futaba who ever they are.
The same rules apply for NiMH cells also, not lipo's. The cells MUST be discharged after EVERY use. That is from every flyer out there along with manufactures/dealer" </font>
Thats great Mike, thats what you should do then. But since the question was about cordless drill batteries, lets not confuse folks. Just as you say everyone one in RC world knows this (I'll take your word for it since I don't know any), then had you even bothered to check the two references I gave a URL for among many hundreds available, you would see that Dewalt, Bosch, Porter Cable, Hitachi, Makita, Fein, Milwaukee, Panasonic and others would definitely tell you NOT to do this. The battery is typically the most expensive part of the product to the manufactuer. I would suggest folks with battery operated tools follow what the manufactuers offer as you with Futaba who ever they are.
agree 100% but I use all 3 types (lipos. Nicad and NiMH) cells and so far there is a reason why they state memory; it happens. But then again Nicads are Nicad no matter what. Also they are cheap & old tecnology here it will not matter to some. Just throw out the overseas made cell and buy another for $30 to $40.
Or do what I do. If the drill is about $125 (give or take $30) and last 2 to 3 years and the pack dies; throw the complete unit out & buy a new drill and battery. They are always getting cheaper and better. Not worth the time and money for a new pack. If it is a higher priced one, do what is outlined in your manual.
Or do what I do. If the drill is about $125 (give or take $30) and last 2 to 3 years and the pack dies; throw the complete unit out & buy a new drill and battery. They are always getting cheaper and better. Not worth the time and money for a new pack. If it is a higher priced one, do what is outlined in your manual.
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
A great article, Some Ramblings About NiCd Batteries, Ken A. Nishimura (KO6AF)
Some Rambling about NiCad batteries.
It gets deeper then most anyone here would care to get, but it does discuss the "memory effect" and acknowledges it's existence. Upon further reading, you will see that what most folks call memory is simply voltage depletion.
I typically buy 12 volt tools simply because the price/ performance/weight is right for me. When it comes to drilling holes in wood, nothing beats a corded tool like a Hole Hog or Timberwolf. I'm sure there are countless folks working on new energy storage solutions, that will be exciting! Happy Flying
Some Rambling about NiCad batteries.
It gets deeper then most anyone here would care to get, but it does discuss the "memory effect" and acknowledges it's existence. Upon further reading, you will see that what most folks call memory is simply voltage depletion.
I typically buy 12 volt tools simply because the price/ performance/weight is right for me. When it comes to drilling holes in wood, nothing beats a corded tool like a Hole Hog or Timberwolf. I'm sure there are countless folks working on new energy storage solutions, that will be exciting! Happy Flying
Good reading but, this person does not make batteries nor does Columbia Uni. Also I would trust my manual before some guy I do not know from a hole in the wall. Never mind that the article is only about 11-years old, from a rec.radio.amateur.misc newsgroup, and talks about 800 mah cells. Do they even make them anymore???? My cells are 3300 mah and the lowest I have seen is 2400 mah.
I love the part on zapping cells. That is the norm for cells in r/c world. Better cells are the zapped but the price is too probative.
To close, #1 on his summary goes 100% against the multi billion dollar Futaba corporation, along with other r/c companies, that has been in r/c for a long long time.
#1 he stated “DON'T deliberately discharge the batteries to avoid memory”. Futaba says yes.
#3 He states “DON'T leave the cells on trickle charge for long times, unless voltage depression can be tolerated.” I do not know what long times are so that is ok, I guess.
#5 he states “DON'T overcharge the cells. Use a good charging technique.” I agree and with today’s chargers, a monkey could do this.
**New energy storage solutions to date is Lithium Polymer but the price is high for some. The pro's are light weight packs and do not lose current over storage time. Plus they hold a lot of power, big time.
Example, my cheaper NiMh cells (32) only give me 8 to 10 minutes of flighting @ 38 amps. They weight about 5 lbs. Price about $250 for cells alone. Need to build pack etc.
Lithium (lipos) are about 2.2 lbs, 66 amps and get about 19 minutes of flying. Price about $750 to $850. Life span is about double of NiMh cells. You can buy a 88 amp pack for $1,200 and still is less weight then my 10 minute pack. and runs way cooler.
I love the part on zapping cells. That is the norm for cells in r/c world. Better cells are the zapped but the price is too probative.
To close, #1 on his summary goes 100% against the multi billion dollar Futaba corporation, along with other r/c companies, that has been in r/c for a long long time.
#1 he stated “DON'T deliberately discharge the batteries to avoid memory”. Futaba says yes.
#3 He states “DON'T leave the cells on trickle charge for long times, unless voltage depression can be tolerated.” I do not know what long times are so that is ok, I guess.
#5 he states “DON'T overcharge the cells. Use a good charging technique.” I agree and with today’s chargers, a monkey could do this.
**New energy storage solutions to date is Lithium Polymer but the price is high for some. The pro's are light weight packs and do not lose current over storage time. Plus they hold a lot of power, big time.
Example, my cheaper NiMh cells (32) only give me 8 to 10 minutes of flighting @ 38 amps. They weight about 5 lbs. Price about $250 for cells alone. Need to build pack etc.
Lithium (lipos) are about 2.2 lbs, 66 amps and get about 19 minutes of flying. Price about $750 to $850. Life span is about double of NiMh cells. You can buy a 88 amp pack for $1,200 and still is less weight then my 10 minute pack. and runs way cooler.
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
"Good reading but, this person does not make batteries nor does Columbia Uni. "
I see, so from your point of view, if you do not make the product, you really have no validity to your opinion researched or not even though you offer yours. Here you spout that NiCad is old technology and at the same time tell how this article is 11 years old. Interesting point of view.
I see, so from your point of view, if you do not make the product, you really have no validity to your opinion researched or not even though you offer yours. Here you spout that NiCad is old technology and at the same time tell how this article is 11 years old. Interesting point of view.
I stated my manufacture, Futaba, is more aware of any battery issue then a 11-year old post online or (1) person. They have to be, there name is on the line. Hence they stated memory effort for a reason.
I stated nothing by paraphrased from what my manufacture states on this issue, what new technology is going on (coming out) & what I have encountered using these Nicad cells. Not my opinion at all just what is a real world situation, in my case.
I stated Nicad is old technology since it is going “out the door”. Not many use it anymore and when mine die, they are going in the trash (where they belong). The only reason why they are still used is that they are cheap and people love cheap.
I stated nothing by paraphrased from what my manufacture states on this issue, what new technology is going on (coming out) & what I have encountered using these Nicad cells. Not my opinion at all just what is a real world situation, in my case.
I stated Nicad is old technology since it is going “out the door”. Not many use it anymore and when mine die, they are going in the trash (where they belong). The only reason why they are still used is that they are cheap and people love cheap.
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
"I stated Nicad is old technology since it is going “out the door”. Not many use it anymore and when mine die, they are going in the trash (where they belong)."
Many portable tool manufactuers will be suprised to hear this.
No, no, they are to be disposed of properly. The trash can is a big no, no. You should know that being from Mass. Home Depot will accept them as will many refuse sites.
Many portable tool manufactuers will be suprised to hear this.
No, no, they are to be disposed of properly. The trash can is a big no, no. You should know that being from Mass. Home Depot will accept them as will many refuse sites.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "I stated Nicad is old technology since it is going “out the door”. Not many use it anymore and when mine die, they are going in the trash (where they belong)."
Many portable tool manufactuers will be suprised to hear this.
No, no, they are to be disposed of properly. The trash can is a big no, no. You should know that being from Mass. Home Depot will accept them as will many refuse sites. " )</font>
Really??? That is why the new cells overseas are NiMH and are better "all around". We will get there soon, I hope.
The cells go where they go. Unless they send me a pre-paid shipping to whereever, or the city takes responsibility, I see nothing that mandates this.
It is like my city. We recycle, but nothing mandates that we have to. I have a 90-gallon trash container & it is amazing! All I know is that you can put over 400 lbs in it and the trash truck does not know!
Many portable tool manufactuers will be suprised to hear this.
No, no, they are to be disposed of properly. The trash can is a big no, no. You should know that being from Mass. Home Depot will accept them as will many refuse sites. " )</font>
Really??? That is why the new cells overseas are NiMH and are better "all around". We will get there soon, I hope.
The cells go where they go. Unless they send me a pre-paid shipping to whereever, or the city takes responsibility, I see nothing that mandates this.
It is like my city. We recycle, but nothing mandates that we have to. I have a 90-gallon trash container & it is amazing! All I know is that you can put over 400 lbs in it and the trash truck does not know!
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
"It is like my city. We recycle, but nothing mandates that we have to. I have a 90-gallon trash container & it is amazing! All I know is that you can put over 400 lbs in it and the trash truck does not know!"
Well here's where we part ways. I say it's our responsibility, you simply do whats easiest for Mike. I take it you pour oil on the ground, dump paint thinner, etc where ever as well. The only time you will do it is when mandated. You can spend thousands on a RC helicopter and the many other items you proudly display on your web site, but a trip to Home Depot or other proper disposal site is out of the question. Interesting. Oh well, what are you going to do. Out...
Well here's where we part ways. I say it's our responsibility, you simply do whats easiest for Mike. I take it you pour oil on the ground, dump paint thinner, etc where ever as well. The only time you will do it is when mandated. You can spend thousands on a RC helicopter and the many other items you proudly display on your web site, but a trip to Home Depot or other proper disposal site is out of the question. Interesting. Oh well, what are you going to do. Out...
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
- Messages
- 1,366
Chris, <font color="blue"> I never mentioned any shunt loading for discharge </font>
Nor did I, I'm talking about tapping the trigger down until the batteries are dead
<font color="blue"> And just for clarification.. we are not talking about a high current discharge.
</font>
High current discharge in my mind is at a 5C to 10C rate and this is pretty much what a power tool load is.
<font color="blue">Just seen too many instances where that gives reduced performance </font>
How would you distinguish this reduced performance from improper charging?? NiCd battery problems are primarily attributal to cheap cells, abusive use and improper charging.
Maybe like Santa, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin and bigfoot it is more fun to believe. I'm gone
Nor did I, I'm talking about tapping the trigger down until the batteries are dead
<font color="blue"> And just for clarification.. we are not talking about a high current discharge.
</font>
High current discharge in my mind is at a 5C to 10C rate and this is pretty much what a power tool load is.
<font color="blue">Just seen too many instances where that gives reduced performance </font>
How would you distinguish this reduced performance from improper charging?? NiCd battery problems are primarily attributal to cheap cells, abusive use and improper charging.
Maybe like Santa, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin and bigfoot it is more fun to believe. I'm gone
