Consensus On A Good Welder

[robertm]

So what is it? I've read so many posts here and there, I'm confused... or maybe not.

I want to weld around 1/4" materials. Easily and affordably. It looks like a mig set-up is the way to go. Thinking a Hobart 175 or Miller 175 is the one. Not suer about the 135's. I have 220V available. What are you all using that does the job? I'm looking to put a new cutting edge on the new B7510 bucket, make a 3pt pallet lift/carrier, a 3pt hitch, weld some brackets on my landscape trailer, hooks on the loader bucket, and maybe even make a ROPS canopy. That's all this weekend! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am a little leary of the 110V welders due to material thickness limitations, penetration, etc. I'm thinking that a mig that uses flux core wire, but one I can add the gas kit to (or hopefully it comes with it) would be great. The flux and gas options is what I would want. This way, I'll use flux core most of the time, but when I get better and the gas is an expense I can stomach, I'll pop for the gas, too. Any input fellers?

 

[gsganzer]

I have a Lincoln Square Wave Tig 175 that I've been real happy with. It allows you to either stick or tig. I don't use the tig very often, but it's nice to have it available for doing stainless or aluminum.

The mig machines are nice, but I always consider them more for production work. I think you'll get more versatility out of a stick/tig combo for a home shop.

 

[SnowRidge]

I bought a Hobart Stickmate LX 225 AC/DC for uses much as you describe. I also took an evening welding course at the local Vo-Tech.

I haven't regretted either decision.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I have the Hobart "Handler" 175 MIG welder and am real happy with it. From what you wrote it would accomodate your needs nicely. It only requires 30 amps of 220V service, too. I've seen them last year under $600 with cart, starter helmet, gloves, etc. I'd suggest an auto darkening helmet with whatever you get. I have one that's adjustable from 9-13, I believe.

I'd also heartily recommend taking a couple classes at your local adult continuing education facility, too. That was by far the best time and money I've spent in a long, long time. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hobart, Miller and Lincoln are all good names in welders. It just comes down to needs and budget. Here's a site that you might want to check out. There are welders there using all sorts of different equipment you could ask. It's good folks much like TBN with some of the same faces and screen names there as here.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Tye]

Robert, I work for a welder part time and I 've learned a few things from him. If you buy a welder, try to find a used commerical grade welder. Not only are they cheaper and built better but your local welding supply store will fix them if they ever need repair -they will not fix the harry home owner ones, like from Sears. Second, if you buy a commerical unit, make sure you have a 220v outlet with at least a 50 amp fuse. Another thing, don't buy an AC unit. AC is the old way of welding many years ago and does not penetrate well at all. A commerial unit will have AC, DC+, DC-. With a machine like that you'll want to keep it set at DC+. Remember: "POSITIVE PUSHES." In other words the current is flowing from your stinger to the ground. The current will push the molten metal into your work piece creating a lot better penetration. With metal 1/4" thick, set your machine to approximently 150v and use 1/8" inch 7018 rods. One common mistake people make when welding is to turn up the heat when welding thicker material. The voltage set on the machinge only changes with rod thickness. You use 150v, 1/8" rod on 1/4" plate, 1/2" plate 3/4" plate etc. If you have other questions feel free to contact me at twinters@gmu.edu

 

[MadReferee]

Since you got 220v available, the Hobart Handler 175 or the Millermatic 175 will be just fine for what you want to do. I have had a MM175 for about 4 years and my projects were similar to what you want to do. I have made carry-alls, 3pt trailer hitches, landscape rakes, lawn dethatchers, a small box trailer, a few ornamental projects, welded bucket hooks and lift link extensions, and the list goes on and on. The MM175 was the perfect tool for these kind of jobs.

Call me a very satisfied MM175 customer. You will be too.

 

[have_blue]

Oh man, I saw a little Lincoln "tombstone" retro-look stick welder at Sam's Club for $225. That red box sure brought back some memories. It's I think it's 230v and ~175A, which will weld 1/4 plate real nice.

 

[chim]

I'm not a welder, but I can "glue things together" pretty well for a novice. In years past I've made mounting brackets for truck-mounted snowplows, lift boom for my tractor, mounts for 8000# winches, a utility trailer and a variety of other things at the in-law's farm with an old tombstone AC welder. The welds weren't pretty, but nothing has fallen apart or broken.

Late last Fall, I scraped a few bucks together for a Millermatic 175 and an 80# bottle of C25 gas. Wow, what a nice machine to work with, especially when compared with the old stick machine. My max metal thickness on projects is 1/4", and many times much lighter. I simply love the MM175 and the auto-darkening hood. I've used it to make target frames for our range (angle iron subjected to .22 and .45 rounds), a towball attachment for my tractor's front end loader, repairs to mowers, and of course a rolling cart for the welder itself.

It runs on a 30 amp 240 volt line. I have both flux core and solid (gas needed) wire. More experienced welders tell me flux core will give better penetration on heavier materials. Polarity must be reversed to switch from flux core to solid wire that I use. It's a simple "move the jumper" operation inside the welder door. The solid wire provides exceptionally clean welds that don't have slag.

To give you an idea of the versatility of the machine, just last week I fixed Wifey's Kitchenaid mixer. There's an internal tooth ring gear pressed into the aluminum housing that is (supposed to be) retained from spinning via two small steel rivets. The heads of the two opposed rivets are to engage in small slots in the outside of the gear. The heads of both rivets were worn where they engaged with the slots, allowing the gear to spin in the aluminum housing. The result was the beater would rotate but not spin. With nothing to lose, I turned the heat down and tacked the rivets to the ring gear. Success. No visible marks on the mixer - there's a trim piece that covers the work. Wifey was happy the ancient mixer didn't need replaced...............chim

 

[JRP]

robertm:
You are on the right track:
1. MIG is easy. MIG has made stick obsolete.
2. 220v is much better than 120 v. 120v is ok for autobody.
3. Gas shield makes pretty welds with no slag chipping. 75/25 gas works very well. Don't use gas in wind.
4. You don't really need 50A. I use/own a Millermatic 250X and plug it into a 30A dryer outlet. If I try to weld 1/2" it just trips the breaker. I can back off on the settings, reset, and continue welding.
5. My preferenc is for Miller brand.
6. Find the good local weld supply shops and find the brands they carry spare parts "consumables" for. Make sure you get one of those brands.
7. After you find the brand you want, consider buying a new one off ebay. My 250X was much less, free shipping, and no tax.

Best of luck. A welder opend up worlds of opportunities.

 

[horseman1]

I have the Hobart Handler 175 MIG . It is a great welder, but I would have to say that if your primary use is to weld 1/4 then you will be running the 175 near max all the time. If 1/4 inch is the max you will be doing and plan mostly to do thinner welds then I think the 175 Miller or Hobart are both good choices. Dont get me wrong, I weld 1/4 inch in a single pass with the 175 and it works fine, it's just that the duty cycle wont be all that good. The 210 would be a better choice if 1/4 inch and above is all you want to do. Stick would also be fine, but was a little harder to learn for me. Let me say that I am an amatuer, but I do OK.

The main difference between the Miller and the Hobart is that the Hobart has taps for the voltage selections and the Miller voltage is infinately variable. Hobart is owned by Miller if you didnt know. If you are interested in the Hobart and Miller, they have just released the 180 amp models. So, the 175 will be discontinued soon I suspect. I dont know what 5 more amps buys you other than bragging rights, but who knows. This is my first post here. Hopes this helps!

Kurt

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> I want to weld around 1/4" materials. Easily and affordably. </font>

RobertM,

You have received some good advice here...but I can't help but wonder what your budget might be?

"Easily" tends to push one towards the MIG...

"Affordably" tends to push towards a stick unit...

Stick is cheaper for the hardware and harder to produce a good looking weld with until you have a fair amount of experience under your belt (unless you are a natural, which most of us ain't). Stick can also be more forgiving of poor metal prep and environmental conditions.

MIG, especially with gas, is fast, clean, and seems to produce a better looking weld more easily than stick. I don't have one but can relate to the process as I have a TIG/Stick welder. I like TIG much better than stick (no slag, easier to see the puddle, and so on). But you have to be careful to get get good penetration with MIG, and not operate the MIG in the "hot glue gun" mode...

I would probably go with the HH175 or MM175, and if I could not afford the price, then I would go with stick. For welding 1/4 inch material stick will be fine. The thinner the material you want to weld, the more difficult it is with stick and the more MIG or TIG excells...

Hope I am doing a little more here than just using different words to say what everyone above has already said... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MadReferee]

I weld 1/4" wall tubing and 3/8" plate and bar all the time with my MM175 and have had no duty cycle problems even when going real slow. Remember a 50% duty cycle is weld for 1 minute then stop for 1 minute, weld for 1 minute then stop for 1 minute. Very few, if any, people welding for a hobby will come anywhere near to exceeding this machine's duty cycle.

This welding circuit in my shop has 6 guage AL wire with a 60 amp breaker and I typically use a 50 ft extension cord attached to the MM175. Never popped the breaker, even with my stick welder.

 

[OkeeDon]

If you've ever done any oxy-acetylene welding with a gas torch, you'll be most comfortable with TIG. Like gas welding, the TIG torch is held in one hand to create the puddle, and the rod is held in the other hand to be melted into the puddle. All of my previous welding experience was with oxy-acetylene, so the electric torch felt as natural to me as the gas torch. I also have a Lincoln Square Wave 175 TIG welder, chosen over a Miller primarily because of the dealer. However, following up on Henro's post, it wasn't cheap -- about $1400. But, it has the flexibility I need -- AC, DC- and DC+ as mentioned above.

I use it primarily to weld aluminum, which turned out to not as difficult as people think, if you have the right equipment. Not having much experience with stick welding, I used it in the stick mode to build my bucket-mounted root rake (attached). It worked great, but was certainly overkill if all you want to do is stick welding.

TIG is the cleanest way to weld; there is no spatter or mess -- I've heard it remarked that one could TIG in a white linen suit and not get it dirty. A disadvantage of TIG is that it's slower. especially compared to MIG. I also have a small, 90 amp, 110 volt MIG Welder ("buzzbox" from Sam's Wholesale Club) which I use to weld sheet metal -- as mentioned above, perfect for autobody work. I have both flux core and a gas shielding setup; as mentioned, I use the 75/25 mix (75% argon) with it, but use flux core when outdoors, because a breeze will blow the gas shielding away. I use the same mix in the TIG when welding steel, but use 100% argon when welding aluminum.

 

[bluecon1]

I too have a small TIG. If you've had experience at Oxy-acet, it's not a big deal. I can also do arc welding with this unit. I bought the TIG because I am building this small helicopter, but have welded many other things with it since. I think you just have to use a bit of common sense when welding. If there is a safety aspect involved with the weld, hire someone to do it if you haven't got the experience.

 

[AlanB]

See if there is a Vo-tech or some other learning institution around you where you can gain a bit of experience first before plunking down your money.

If you are going to plunk down your money up front, buy Quality, and buy bigger than you think you will need. (sounds like tractor buying advice)

As a very general statement, it is easy to do the lighter, thinner easier stuff with too large of a machine and impossible to do the bigger heavier stuff properly with too small a machine.

More than anything, try the different things out before laying down your money.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Horseman1,

Let me be the first to welcome you to TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Please keep coming back and posting.

As to the new 180 models, while I don't know what they add besides the obvious, but I'm pretty certain they'll be responsible for some discounting of the 175's. That might make them even more attractive. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Ahhhh, one of my favoritest subjects. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have three and a half stick welders and two and a half migs. That's Miller Trailblazer 251, Miller Dialarc 250, Panasonic 260 Gunslinger, and an old Lincoln 130 suitcase that's been replaced by the Lincoln 170 suitcase.

The Panasonic is a two hundred and fifty amp mig with a 150 amp stick integrated into it.

I don't use the amperages some folks do. I've found that I run hotter than most folks yet from my perspective I've adjusted to running colder to allow the molten metal to have more time to get comfortable with it's surrounding.

I prefer stick. If given the choice nine times out of ten all other things being equal. I'll go stick.

First, stick gives you an opportunity to experience the intimacy of welding that's usually only experienced with TIG or oxy acetylene. Yesterday as I was sewing up pipe fence this thread came to mind.

The experienced weldor will understand what I'm talking about when I describe welding with terms like intimacy or sensuality.

When you're working with molten metal and it's all there in that state between falling to the floor or becoming one with the parent materials it all takes an appearance of and the immediatacy that comes from certain intimate moments. Enough said.

That special place in time and space is there in oxy acetylene and TIG. And it's also available when stick is done properly. I can imagine it can be found with MIG. Just not very often. With MIG I find it being more about getting it done than doing it. I'm a fan of the doing probably more than the done.

I really enjoy welding. For me it's just not about doing work most of the time. I cheat. I find myself trying to make each weld an event. That is a concious effort on my part. Each one would have a story if a job was a book. And most of the stories would be unique.

There are differences in the metalurgy in different areas of the same piece of steel. I am not a machine. My pace, arc length, and in general concentration varies. So in one weld there will be sections that will be like soaking in a hot tub, I'm there for the ride. But there will be moments of panic when I've changed the pace, there is a difference in metal thickness or the gap has changed. I have to change the pace, maybe even the pattern I'm using, to compensate. So for a couple of seconds during a weld I'll be coasting and during other seconds I'll be busier than the proverbial one legged cat on a hot tin roof discovering poop.

Another thing I like about welding is it's being a heckuva metaphor about how to live a life. You can do a weld concerned only about appearance and have a lousy weld. But generally speaking working a weld concerned only about doing a good weld will yield a weld that looks good. And as in life situations will decide the degreee of difficulty in doing it right and having it look good.

Along that thought we can compare how a mud or drag rod will do the row of dimes under perfect circumstances. While the same rod under difficulty, verticals for instance, not only make ugly welds but lousy ones. And the same rods that make a difficult weld a good one have to really work at making the row of dimes affect on flat work under perfect circumstances.

Like I said, welding's a great metaphor for life. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The best weld and under some circumstances the fastest and easiest takes probably the most skill. It's called a forge weld. Blacksmiths do forge welding. What happens in a forge weld is the two pieces are brought to the almost molten state. The two pieces come together with each side being a little convex in shape. A light hammering is applied. This forces the two molten pieces to become one. Harder blows follow. This forces out impurities from the heat source, fluxes, and eliminates the opportunity for trash in the weldment.

There used to be a blacksmith that traveled around whupping butt on weldors. He'd challenge them to weld one inch by six inch plates together in a butt weld. Of course for the weldor there'd be the beveling of the edges, laying a pass, cleaning, laying a pass, cleaning etc.

For the blacksmith it would be putting the plates into the fire, hammering his bevel after they were hot. Reheating them and then hammering them together. A destructive test would always show his weld perfect because the forge weld is taking two pieces and making them into one.

Probably the biggest advantage of the forge weld is it has the least tendancy to create a weak area next to the weld. On thin materials you will notice it isn't the weld that gives away under stress. It's the fringe of the weld that didn't get hot enough to melt into the weld but so hot as to destroy the integrity of the parent material.

The other ways to weld involve melting part of the parent materials together while adding a filler material to compensate for the gap required for the heat source.

MIG is the weld that puts more emphasis on the filler than the melting of the parent materials together. It is the easiest weld to do. But it might also be the hardest to do right.

Sorry for the length of the rant. But it is your fault. You should have known I'd get carried away when the subject is so dear to my heart. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> The experienced welder will understand what I'm talking about when I describe welding with terms like intimacy or sensuality. </font>

I'm a self-taught welder, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to tips from experienced welders. One of my customers at my store was a custom welder. When I got my TIG, he offered to give me some tips on welding aluminum. I was having a hard time avoiding a burn-through. I gave him a scrap of 1/8" wall aluminum square tubing. He picked up the torch, struck the arc, got a puddle, and turned to talk to me while holding the puddle. He held the puddle without burning through (in material only 1/8" thick!) for at least 30 seconds, looking at me and talking to me the entire time, strictly by the SOUND of the buzz from the torch.

I could hear that sound, also, and I have rarely burned through since then, simply because I now know that it's possible. I still don't have his intimacy with the process, but I'm ahead of the game and on my way...very satisfying.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Don,

That was one of the things I was taught in my welding classes... to LISTEN to the sound. The term given to me to describe the sound of a good weld was "bacon frying." Maybe there's a better description, but that sure worked for me. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Alan L.]

Harv, I'm not sure if I understand all of that, but it sure was poetic. Its a blessing enjoying the work you do and making a differece. I'll bet it shows up in your work.