Comparing the 'orange' machines.

[IXLR8]

If I am not mistaken, the CK25/30 already have three range transmissions. The CK20 is two range though and I agree it could use a three range transmission.

Just came from the Kioti dealer, the CK25->35 HST's have the three speed ranges.
I was suppose to meet dealer between 3:30 and 4:00, he showed up at 4:45. I had called the office and talked to two different people, before I drove the 2+hrs to get there, they both said that they had a CK25 gear machine I could try out. They said that the CK25 didn't have a backhoe, but there were other machines that did. I wanted to check out the operation of the BH and to see if I fit the BH station. When I arrived... they had a CK20 gear, CK30HST, CK35HST, DK45 gear and a DK4x HST... no CK25 and nothing with a backhoe on it! BUT, at least I finally got to sit on a Kioti and made it go!!! I started with the CK30 HST as that was the same size as the 25 that I wanted. Compared with the Kubota B2630, I found the steering easier, the FEL control was natural for me. I didn't have to think about what way to move the lever to get the bucket to go where I wanted. With the Kubota you raise the lever to lower the bucket and lower the lever to raise the bucket... seems backwards to me. I didn't have to hold my arm in the air to operate the FEL. The engine didn't seem to get as loaded down as much as the Kubota for basic FEL movements. I used 1800 rpm on both machines. The HST seemed smoother, tiny movement of pedal gave you tiny motion. On the Kubota I found that tiny movements gave you no motion... as you slowly pushed down on the pedal, suddenly, with a jerk, you would start moving. Same thing fwd and reverse. On the Kubota it was difficult to shift between the 3 HST ranges, I really had to grab the lever and give it a good yank, the CK35 was just click click range changed, no issue. From the drivers seat, I felt both machines were equally comfortable, very similar ergonomics. On the other hand... on the Kubota the operator station for the backhoe was too small for me. My feet felt scrunched up underneath me, after a little use I found I had put my feet on top of the foot protectors in order to have enough room to be comfortable. Next I tried out the DK45 gear, that is a bigger machine than I want!! I liked the shuttle shift, I didn't like the fact that the clutch engaged just off the floor. Made it a little difficult to get smooth, then again I only spent 10 minutes on the machine. I tried to get him to sell me the DK45 for the same price as the CK25 since he told me he had one, and he didn't, he had gotten me there under false pretenses.... he didn't go for that.
So far scale is tipping to the Kioti.... now if I could only find one with a backhoe on it that I could operate. The biggest plus for the Kubota at the moment is the terrific response and honesty I have had from the dealer.... 14 miles from my house. Nearest Kioti dealer is 55 miles away and a joke. I called the next nearest Kioti dealer... he said he didn't know of any issues with the KL130 loaders. He didn't know that there was a 'B' model out. The dealer situation is a bit discouraging on the Kioti side of things.

 

[Gittyup]

Just to clarify, the gear CK25/30/35 models only have a two range tranny. But, in a gear that is all you really need. $19K is a good price, and a great value.

Some of the things mentioned in the bota comparisons are adjustable, and can be changed to meet your person tastes. Like the clutch position. I adjusted mine so that the engagement point is very "tall" so that you just barely have to press in on the clutch, and it's almost impossible to ride it when set like this too. Also, the CK's have a two stage clutch for the live PTO. A two stage clutch will operate differently from a single stage/electric PTO. Half press disengages drive train, all the way down disengages both tranny and PTO.

 

[Oleozz]

I tried to get him to sell me the DK45 for the same price as the CK25 since he told me he had one, and he didn't, he had gotten me there under false pretenses.... he didn't go for that.
.

Why would you buy from someone who wasn't truthful with you, if he's lying now just think what he will be like after you buy one and have problems?

 

[art]

If I am not mistaken, the CK25/30 already have three range transmissions. The CK20 is two range though and I agree it could use a three range transmission.

The Kubota B series (excepting the 2630 and 3030) is in serious need of updating just to catch up with Kioti's CK range. Position control, suspension seat, telescopic lower link and stabilizers are all features missing on the B's. It would be trivial for Kubota to add those but for marketing reasons (eg their desire to sell the pricier 2630, 3030 etc) they don't.

You are mistaken and all tractors keep adding features when they update tractors, just like kioti! Kubota has no problems with their loaders at this point of welds or frame breakage to hide.

The hydraulic hitch system used on the kubotas small tractor is the most acurate in the industry for maintaining a grade. Some applications just don't need to be that level and for that the normal three point hitch will work fine.

 

[IslandTractor]

You are mistaken and all tractors keep adding features when they update tractors, just like kioti! Kubota has no problems with their loaders at this point of welds or frame breakage to hide.

The hydraulic hitch system used on the kubotas small tractor is the most acurate in the industry for maintaining a grade. Some applications just don't need to be that level and for that the normal three point hitch will work fine.

Actually, I just looked back at my post and see no mistakes at all. Perpahps some confusion as I was referencing HST transmissions and you may have be talking about gear. Is a three range transmission for gear really necessary??

Your defence of the "hydraulic hitch system", better known as quarter inching valve is laughable. If it is the best in the industry then why do only the bottom of the line tractors in the Kubota lineup feature it? Every tractor Kubota makes other than the lower end B series have position control. Don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The ONLY reason Kubota continues to use the quarter inching valve is that they would prefer to sell you a better more expensive tractor.

 

[art]

Actually, I just looked back at my post and see no mistakes at all. Perpahps some confusion as I was referencing HST transmissions and you may have be talking about gear. Is a three range transmission for gear really necessary??

Your defence of the "hydraulic hitch system", better known as quarter inching valve is laughable. If it is the best in the industry then why do only the bottom of the line tractors in the Kubota lineup feature it? Every tractor Kubota makes other than the lower end B series have position control. Don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The ONLY reason Kubota continues to use the quarter inching valve is that they would prefer to sell you a better more expensive tractor.

Not so at all!!! A quarter inching valve can carry a level far better then anyone I've seen with a normal three point type with a guide plate that will give you different depths depending on wheather you are raising or lowering to your imaginary goal number. The quater inching valve which is used to maintain the grades in a rice patties where about three quarters of all tractors under 30 horsepower are sold is very consistant and I've yet to see anyone raise or lower 1/4" or even a 1/2" everytime with the other system. Truth be known you have no idea other then "that seems right" The area that started building the compacts raises rice in the ag fields, they have to be really level. They have to flood them with a nominal amount of water and could never handle the variations of the other style system to maintain the levelness that is needed.
Is it right for all situations, no probably not, but then again I would find the option of a draft control that takes more then a ten percent load change to monitior a waste of money as well as time to consider it a plus much less at twenty percent!
Don't mean to confuse you just stating the facts.

 

[IslandTractor]

Art, I'll be sure to recommend quarter inching valves to anyone on TBN who needs to level a rice paddy. By the way, all the rice patty tractors I have seen in south east asia are all two wheel versions mostly made by Yanmar. And, most rice paddys have been in production for generations and don't really need leveling.

Most of us use the position control to raise and lower mowers and rakes not to level rice fields. The ability to rapidly raise a mower with a single motion rather than tap tap tap tap tap tap on a quarter inching valve is a practical benefit.

You didn't address my point that Kubota puts the quarter inching valve only on their entry level tractors. If it is such a great feature why don't they include it on the fancier machines?

 

[IXLR8]

I have a lead on a 2006 CK30HST w/loader & Backhoe, asking $18.5K, less than 300 hrs, 'no commercial use'. Any suggestions on what to look for when looking at a used machine? Is there a 'how to buy used' FAQ around here somewhere? I looked quickly and didn't see one. I was going to look at loader, which one is it and are there any cracks, records to show fluids have been changed when they should have been, with what should be used. Condition of hydraulic cylinders, no nicks or bumps to mess up seals. General condition of machine. Seller implied balance of warrantee was transferable... does anybody know if it is? Is this reasonable money for a machine in good shape?

Thanks

 

[art]

Art,
Most of us use the position control to raise and lower mowers and rakes not to level rice fields. The ability to rapidly raise a mower with a single motion rather than tap tap tap tap tap tap on a quarter inching valve is a practical benefit.

You didn't address my point that Kubota puts the quarter inching valve only on their entry level tractors. If it is such a great feature why don't they include it on the fancier machines?

I guess not all people have operated them as the lever can do two functions, one is all up or all down or to adjust in 1/4" increments.
Kubota is the number one there too! The new Yanmars are also equipped with 1/4" valves in the smaller sizes!
As far as the larger tractors needing the quarter inchng valve, I would say they normally don't use big tractors in the rice patties!
To use your wording on the fancier tractors, they don't sell that style in the orient that much as they look for working tractors that are dependable not the bells and whistles, they have very different values then many do here.

 

[IslandTractor]

Art, remember, we are talking about tractors sold by Kubota in the USA. Rice paddys are not on most people's chore list. Moving a mower up out of the way of an obstruction and then back to the same level quickly is a common task. Kubota knows that and puts position control on all their tractors except the 'rice paddy specials'. Do you tell people the older B class tractors are optomized for rice paddy work?

 

[Patches]

IXLR8; While I don't own a CK,(3054TLB) I think $18,500 for a unit with 300hrs. would be the top dollar. Kioti's simply don't have that kind of resale value, YET If the machine is in pristine condition, it may be worth that to you ,and yes, the warrantee is transferable.

 

[IXLR8]

I have been given a price of $24.6K for the same machine new... so I was not sure if the value was reasonable, or how far out of line the 24.6 was. The new LK3054xs at $20K is looking better and better.

 

[canoetrpr]

While I can accept the argument that many folks using one of the smaller B series around their house don't need position control, it's also probably the case that they haven't had position control to compare with.

I don't accept the argument that Kubota is putting 1/4 inching valves on the smaller tractors because something about the north american home owner application in <30 hp tractors needs 1/4 inching more than position control.

I'd bet that once someone had position control (like the B2630 has) they'd never want to move back to 1/4 inching.

This is an economical decision. One can make an argument that it is a fair one given the target market. I don't see any other argument.

 

[TBDonnelly]

This is an economical decision. One can make an argument that it is a fair one given the target market. I don't see any other argument.

I have to agree. This is an economic decision.

The 'rice paddy' marketing just doesn't 'hold water' for me.

Don

 

[art]

The quarter inching valve hitch system works fine, just like for some people they seem to be only able to operate a tractor when the brake petals are on the left! Sure does limit the brands and the models they can use to about 1% of the tractors built maybe less.

There are plenty of people that have never run another style of hitch height adjustment and they do fine with the quarter inching system. For me I wish it was the half inch for our contours of ground but it just means that I have to hit it twice the way they are. Everyone has their preferences as to what is easy for them. I can grade a better grade with a quater inching valve hitch then the position control believe it or not! We have a thirty year dozer operator from road work that wishes Cat would develop something like it! Loves it with a 42" box blade for putting in driveways with his BX. I haven't seen to many people that haven't been able to use it and some that use it for their work. For some people the hitch uses are minimal and they are not using them for much if any ground engaging attachments.
Same concept for the best loader outfit is normally the worst mowing unit. All that weight moving the tractor and an agile feel just doesn't happen with anything I've seen. Then again someone else might think they have the next best thing to a hot knife in butter.

I guess I can pick from to many makes and models so it's a little different then most folks yards.

 

[Steve_Miller]

It's just like any other feature, once you get use to it, it' just second nature. Unless you've had it long enough to use it on an everyday basis, how can you say it is no good or useless? It's probably similar to going from a gear to an HST tractor, comfort level. I think as Art says it has its place and some people prefer it. If it were that bad then the public will eliminate it by bypassing that product, not that it's directly related but take Kioti's cracking loaders, it's bypassing some people from buying that brand. It's one of the reasons I moved to the newer stlye loader that Kioti has come out with. That's my two cents.


Steve

 

[IslandTractor]

It's just like any other feature, once you get use to it, it' just second nature. Unless you've had it long enough to use it on an everyday basis, how can you say it is no good or useless? It's probably similar to going from a gear to an HST tractor, comfort level. I think as Art says it has its place and some people prefer it. If it were that bad then the public will eliminate it by bypassing that product, not that it's directly related but take Kioti's cracking loaders, it's bypassing some people from buying that brand. It's one of the reasons I moved to the newer stlye loader that Kioti has come out with. That's my two cents.


Steve

I understand your point however this is not really similar to the Kioti manufacturing problem/warranty problem with the loaders. It's about a basic tractor feature that Kubota chooses to use in order to drive customers who want a more advanced system to buy more expensive tractors. It is interesting that Art defends the quarter inching valve as the best way to control a grading device yet Kubota only puts it on their cheapest entry level tractors. No other major manufacturer uses quarter inching. It is certainly servicable, no one disputes that, but it is also pretty clearly a technology for controlling the 3PT that has long since been supplanted by position control. The Kubota dealers defend it because they have to in order to sell the B series but they don't like to admit that the system is slower and much less convenient than position control (which is standard on all other Kubota tractors including the lux B tractors). If some people really preferred it Kubota would offer it as an option on the higher priced tractors. They don't.

 

[Steve_Miller]

I understand your point however this is not really similar to the Kioti manufacturing problem/warranty problem with the loaders. It's about a basic tractor feature that Kubota chooses to use in order to drive customers who want a more advanced system to buy more expensive tractors. It is interesting that Art defends the quarter inching valve as the best way to control a grading device yet Kubota only puts it on their cheapest entry level tractors. No other major manufacturer uses quarter inching. It is certainly servicable, no one disputes that, but it is also pretty clearly a technology for controlling the 3PT that has long since been supplanted by position control. The Kubota dealers defend it because they have to in order to sell the B series but they don't like to admit that the system is slower and much less convenient than position control (which is standard on all other Kubota tractors including the lux B tractors). If some people really preferred it Kubota would offer it as an option on the higher priced tractors. They don't.

My point was that this was a decision made by the company's and they have to live with them, whether it's a poor loader design or a feature that some people don't like. Just remember, these are only my opnions, not anyone else's.

Steve

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I can't say I've ever heard anyone try to sell the quater inch valve and anything but a cost reduction. I'd agree with Kubota's assesment that 90% of the people buying this size tractor have no need for anything else. Some of you maybe that 10%, but our sales figures certianly seem to support their choice.

 

[Harry c]

Wow guys! This is great!
I've been participating on the Kubota side of TBN for almost a year. Finally decided to see how the other ORANGE live. Whatta ya know! Same Kubota guys! Art, Neil, Island , Canoe.... Somewhat different outlook, but same guys, same tractors.
Now the real rub: I've learned more about the Kubota 1/4 inching valve in the last 30 minutes on the Kioti site of all places, than I have in a year on the Kubota side!