Comparing the orange forums to the green forums.

[Snatchface]

Now I have never owned a greenie but in making my decision to buy a BX24 I read through several pages of posts in all of the different brands of tractors i had available to buy locally. I noticed at the time that in the Kubota forums people were generally pleased and the discussions revolved around what things they were doing to upgrade their tractors and their projects. In the Deere forums it was predominantly complaints about things broken or not working properly. Just tried it again tonight to see if I could pick up any new interesting topics and again, predominantly complaints. I can't see how this wouldn't reflect upon a serious quality issue.

 

[ejnichol]

JD has such a powerful brand legacy and following. It attracts some buyers because they feel safe with the purchase and expect more people to agree they made the 'right' choice.

It will take quite a while for people too notice, if there quality is faltering, that JD is not maybe the best choice.

I'm not saying Kubota is any better since mine is back in the shop after one week of ownership and 5 hrs of run time.

I was just leary of the buying JD just because everyone else has.

 

[hazmat]

And if you venture over to the NH forum, you'll probably find the least amount of "brand cheerleading" of the "big three". A good percentage of the "estate owners" may have never heard of New Holland compact tractors before they went tractor shopping... (I knew the name, but not that they made compacts).

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

JD has such a powerful brand legacy and following. It attracts some buyers because they feel safe with the purchase and expect more people to agree they made the 'right' choice.

Deere's greatest product is their brand and marketing. Thats what they do best.

 

[DiezNutz]

JD has such a powerful brand legacy and following. It attracts some buyers because they feel safe with the purchase and expect more people to agree they made the 'right' choice. ... I was just leary of the buying JD just because everyone else has.

You hit the nail on the head. It's like Hondas. Hondas are fine cars, don't get me wrong, but I've always said "Hondas are cars for people that don't know anything about cars", because (a) everybody they know has one and (b)they're perceived to be a good car. (You can also substitute Toyota for Honda in the above). Lemmings, if you will.

A Jehovah's Witness rolled up on me one day last year when I was outside washing the Kubota and made some comment like "couldn't get the John Deere eh", to which I replied "well if I wanted to pay anywhere from $3K to $5K more for roughly the same Japanese tractor and implements painted green instead of orange, sure. At least Kubota isn't trying to fool anybody with paint and stickers." I think he left without even giving me a Watchtower.
When you really compare what you're getting, Kubota seems to be the better value, and that's what I look for...value.

 

[RoyJackson]

Deere makes a good product and has an excellent support network. I've had 2 Deeres and both have been reliable machines. I see few tractors at my dealer that are there for other then normal maintenance.

I suggest Snatchface's original post has little objective validity. What kind of comparison did he do...for how long? How many posts did he review...were they duplicates? I've no idea...neither does he, I suspect.

All machines break sometime or another...and TBN is a great forum to share subjective information (which may or may not be accurate...basically, all any of us can do is offer opinions on what might be wrong.

And MessickFarmEqu...you're a competitor to Deere...you sell Kubota and NH. Frankly, your opinion on Deere may be more due to sales tactics then any actual knowledge. That's kind of shifty to post, isn't it?

 

[hazmat]

You hit the nail on the head. It's like Hondas. Hondas are fine cars, don't get me wrong, but I've always said "Hondas are cars for people that don't know anything about cars", because (a) everybody they know has one and (b)they're perceived to be a good car. (You can also substitute Toyota for Honda in the above). Lemmings, if you will.
....

Huh??? Hondas and Toyotas are perceived to be a good car because they are good cars - at or near the top of most customer satisfaction surveys, reliablity, safety, fuel economy etc. measures. They do command a small premium (usually less than 10%) vs. a comparable domesetic vehicle.

I've had a Subaru, a Ford Truck, A volvo, a Mercedes (used), and 3 Hondas. The European cars weren't all that reliable and cost a small fortune to repair. In 200,000 combined miles, I've had 3 unexpected repairs (1 for each car) of to the Hondas. 1 was covered under warranty the others were reasonable cost - the Ford service certainly wasn't any less expensive.

I would say "Hondas are cars for people that don't know anything about cars", because you don't have to know anything about cars - just gas & go.

Of course I'm biased and I do know something about cars (degree in automotive engineering)

 

[Erik Graham]

Greetings;

I am new member and new to Kubota and surf the archives here extensively to get familair with my not so new tractor which is a late '8o's B7100 HST. I also have a Ford Jubilee, another vintage heavily built machine. What occurs to me are 2 main perspectives. Although newer tractors have more features,better ergonomics and ofter higher power they are not necessarily "better". Whether they be orange, green or blue, the manufacturerers have gone a long ways down the slippery slope of trying to offer more for less and have ended up delivering less for more. To a large degree the consumer has driven this dynamic. For me, give me old and stout over glitter any day.

Lastly, I've noticed many posts by members complaining about dealers and reps. The problem doesn't seem to be that a machine failed (although there does seem to be a growing number of irritating manufacturing oversights), the problem appears to rest with the dealer's wilingness to deal with it in a timely and fair manner. My guess is that if you have a legimate beef with a dealership and you take it to the top, things with change over time. Word eventually filters up and when Kubota finally realises that poor representation in the field is costing them sales they will have to respond.

Cheers, Erik

 

[hazmat]

...

And MessickFarmEqu...you're a competitor to Deere...you sell Kubota and NH. Frankly, your opinion on Deere may be more due to sales tactics then any actual knowledge. That's kind of shifty to post, isn't it?

How is that shifty? He is right by the way - Deere's greatest product is their brand. It is up there with Coca Cola as one of the most recognizable brands in the world. In order for Deere to get that brand recognition, they have built many fine products over the years. In order to maintain that brand they will have to continue to innovate & build quality products.

I've seen the same attitude in the Deere forums. Because of Deere's reputation (in addition to their technology - E hydro etc.), they command a premium in price vs. the competition. It seems that when the buyer of a Deere has an issue, they tend to get more "upset" because they know darn well they paid extra for the Deere. They paid more because with the expectation that they wouldn't have a problem in the first place, or if they did it would be resolved quickly.

 

[milkman]

I can't see that this thread has any merit at all. Comes across as a puff out your chest, look down your nose at others, just to get comments, nothing at all to do with "owning and operating".

 

[art]

In the field of marketing it is amazing but, normally he who advertizes the most and best sells the most! I guess it's almost true as deere does hold a good market share in some areas and they have a lot of followers.

 

[Tollster]

I am sooo happy I got the Kubota, 1 toyota truck, and 1 toyota forerunner because now I have time to do things I really enjoy doing. Kind of wish my dad had done the same.

 

[Snatchface]

Roy and Milk are absolutely correct. There is no objective merit to my initial post. Just a very subjective impression of rancor amongst the Deere members of the forum from my few visits over there. I did read through 5-10 pages each time to get a good sampling, though.

It took a long time for me to decide between the two and this is in part what made my decision. Thought I'd see what others thought about that. I would prefer to be a fanboy for an American company than a Japanese one - however, I have enough problems in my life that I don't need to spend money for more problems. Nothing objective at all...but that's how most people make their decisions.

 

[MOPAULY]

Deere's greatest product is their brand and marketing. Thats what they do best.

I agree 100%

Personally, when I was tractor shopping, the equivalent Deere stuff looked out dated and clunky. And as stated, at least I know I'm buying a Japanese tractor upfront, not hiding it behind green paint and stickers.

 

[DiezNutz]

Huh??? Hondas and Toyotas are perceived to be a good car because they are good cars - at or near the top of most customer satisfaction surveys, reliablity, safety, fuel economy etc. measures. They do command a small premium (usually less than 10%) vs. a comparable domesetic vehicle.

We agree on this. I know there are Honda people, Honda enthusiasts, and those (maybe such as yourself) who do all of their objective research and conclude that Honda is right for them...wasn't referring to them. I was referring to: "I need a car but what's a good car? Well, I know Dick and Jane and Tom and Sue and sweet old Mrs. Robinson down at the antique bookstore all have Hondas and seem to like them, so I gotta get me a Honda". I also wouldn't DARE to say that Deere people know nothing about tractors, because it's 100% untrue/unfair...however YOU KNOW there are those that will buy Deere because everyone from their great-grandpappy to their baby cousin's husband's uncle's stepbrother's fourth cousin Otis (thrice removed) and all of Otis' neightbors all had Deeres, and d*mmit that's just how it oughtta be. They wouldn't be caught dead in a store of another color. See the difference? I don't think we've had enough generations of Kubotas yet for this sort of phenomenon. I will say though, that I wish Kubota would step up their marketing game so's we could all have some cool gear like the Deere people get. One JD showroom near me has a whole section with all the shirts/hats/belts/suspenders/toys/clocks/golf tees/gas grills/PAPER TOWELS(?!) you could ever want. This topic alone has me a little "green" with envy

I would say "Hondas are cars for people that don't know anything about cars", because you don't have to know anything about cars - just gas & go.

That was more my point really... low maintenance mostly reliable.. good cars. Then again, ask sweet old Mrs. Robinson how she liked her Accord's airbag popping unexpectedly at 70 mph (assuming she lived through that ensuing rollover), or Dick about the sludge problems in his 4-Runner (since resolved I've heard), or worse yet a few months later when a conn rod decided to punch through the side of his block singing "Hello Dolly", how they're liking them now. EVERYBODY has problems. I'd also have to say that European car owners can be a bit more fussy and whine more/louder in the face of reliability issues, and that tends to bias their reliability ratings and cust. satisfaction surveys a bit.

Of course I'm biased and I do know something about cars (degree in automotive engineering)

Same here (mine's not automotive per se) but been a car enthusiast/hobbyist since about 8 yrs. old. We should probably get back to tractors now though, sorry I led us astray

 

[lug nut]

I had noticed the same thing when I was reading the brand forums, while trying to make up my mind on a tractor. I was all set on buying a Kubota until I found out that I could get a lot more tractor for the money if I went blue.

I have good dealers for the "big 3" near by, but the Kubota dealer would barely budge on his prices, and the Deere dealer only sells John Deeres. So, I ended up bringing a shiney, new blue tractor.

 

[nasdaqsam]

You hit the nail on the head. It's like Hondas. Hondas are fine cars, don't get me wrong, but I've always said "Hondas are cars for people that don't know anything about cars", because (a) everybody they know has one and (b)they're perceived to be a good car. (You can also substitute Toyota for Honda in the above). Lemmings, if you will.

Thats funny right there I don't care who you are.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

How is that shifty? He is right by the way - Deere's greatest product is their brand.

Thank you.

There is no doubt it sells them many tractors. There is nothing wrong with this, but its simple fact. "E-Hydro" , "On-Ramp" , "I-Match". None of it is anything thats not been offered by other companies long before Deere picked it up. They just put a snazzy name to it and some people start seeing some level of artificial value in it. All big companies do this. I know when New Holland prices their tractors they look at the featuers they are offering and ask themsevles what the customer will pay - not what a fair profit is. Not to say that people are not getting what their paying for. Deere makes a fine tractor and backs it up with an experienced dealer network and good parts support. Price is not everything, be it high or low. There are many things to consider.

You can throw alot of other brands into this pile. In my non-tractor life I do alot of profesional audio / multimedia and stuff. You can put Sony, Dell, and especialy Bose in this same catageory. They make okay stuff, but a vast majority of their product is sold on their reputation.

 

[spectre520]

My experience between green and orange began the day I walked into the green dealership and had a salesman tell me directly to my face that the little green tractor he was pushing me towards wasn't made by the Japanese! I left there soon after that and stopped at the orange tractor store and signed on the dotted line.
Basically, if that was how the relationship was going to start out between the dealer and myself, I wanted a better quality of dealership...........and hence the product.
Don't even speak of shifty things. You have no idea of what you are saying when it comes to that............

 

[MOPAULY]

I also wouldn't try to defend JD stuff in the Kubota forums