Clearing 154 acres of woods in west Tennessee

[oldnslo]

I've heard arguments for and against leaving trees in pasture. Cattle will some times shelter in a storm, and those trees attract lightning; and you Could loose 10+ head off a single lighting strike. What I don't know, is would an open field have the same number of lighting kills over time? In theory, the lighting is gonna strike in the field somewhere, regardless of there not being a tree; but the cattle won't be as tightly packed in the area of the lightning.

My only experience is dairy cattle and they like the shade vs standing in the direct sun. No experience with beef but suspect given option they would head towards shade also.

I would consider Lightning a lesser concern that heat but again that is based on dairy cattle experience.

 

[paulsharvey]

Either way; a very large well rooted tree might cost $3k to remove by itself (say 8 hrs between working it out, raking, burning, back filling, leveling) vs disk around it and loose a 30-50 ft diameter circle of field. Pick your battles. The old 80/20 rule applies; if this isn't all mature woods; you can probably clear 80% of the trees relatively easy/"affordable"; vs 100% clean-clear being Way more work, for relatively low increase in grazing/baling grass.

I say affordable, I mean in comparison, it's not going to be cheap by any means.

Also, your cost vs gains might be better spent on drainage tile in the 150 acres of row crop land.

 

[Jchonline]

Sorry if this sounds rude, but are you serious? You want to destroy 150 acres of natural wooded area? If you need 300 acres of row crops, why didn't you just buy 300 acres of existing farmland? 150 acres is already a huge farm to manage. I don't get to decide whether this is the right and moral thing for you to do, but you asked for opinions, so mine is: please don't do it.

Do you think most farmland is just magically devoid of trees and it was found that way? OP did not ask for your opinion about whether or not it should be done. If you cared so much you would be out volunteering to plant a few hundred trees a week. But I doubt you are. I planted 280 on my property a month ago....lots of work!

 

[paulsharvey]

As I've suggested before on other threads; print (or order prints) large 24"×36" aerial with lot lines, and sit down and sketch out your plan. Short term decisions could cause problems for the life of the farm (ie roads/water/sheds/canals)

 

[Fixastuff]

I would try to work something out with a logger. I clear small lots here and there with an excavator and it's amazing how quickly that pile of trees and stumps gets big and difficult manage.

 

[Cycledude]

Is sod busting actually allowed down there ?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

If you clear a forest and leave a single tree, the wind will usually take it down....

 

[IndyIan]

I would do some research(talk to a local older farmer?) on why the forested part wasn't cleared years ago, or kept clear if it once was cleared?

I do see people here nibbling away at woodlands to extend fields, but then I also see the big equipment rutting up soft ground as usually its quite wet... Usually there's a reason no one in the previous 100-200 years didn't farm it? What I'm seeing in general here is farmers concentrating on improving their better acreage and marginal farmland is being cut up and sold.

Also I don't see many people pasturing beef anymore, but that may be a local thing, up here with a shorter growing season its more cost effective to run land as hay fields than pasture as you need hay for 5 months of the year in any case...

Maybe try clearing a smaller chunk and see how it goes, or get your woodland professionally evaluated? The woodland may provide a smaller, but with a fraction of the labor and investment, source of income forever, if managed properly?

 

[CalG]

I've heard arguments for and against leaving trees in pasture. Cattle will some times shelter in a storm, and those trees attract lightning; and you Could loose 10+ head off a single lighting strike. What I don't know, is would an open field have the same number of lighting kills over time? In theory, the lighting is gonna strike in the field somewhere, regardless of there not being a tree; but the cattle won't be as tightly packed in the area of the lightning.

Although a distraction to the thread.

IT'S the charge in the ground that results in the lightning strike. The tree has little to do with it. except to congregate the cattle. ;-)

 

[Carl_NH]

Get topo map of the property Topographic Maps | U.S. Geological Survey to start to layout fields and low areas - and a water source/pond stream for cattle. You will need about 1.5-2 acres per head on grass and you need to rotate them through fields.

In the low areas leave some of the trees for cover. As far as clearing excavator and dozer as others have said once you have your "plan" and layout.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Get topo map of the property Topographic Maps | U.S. Geological Survey to start to layout fields and low areas - and a water source/pond stream for cattle. You will need about 1.5-2 acres per head on grass and you need to rotate them through fields.

You have to check with the local authorities first. Some places require livestock to be fenced out of streams and ponds, especially if you go looking for grants/loans to help with the bills.

 

[milkman636]

I would do some research(talk to a local older farmer?) on why the forested part wasn't cleared years ago, or kept clear if it once was cleared?

I do see people here nibbling away at woodlands to extend fields, but then I also see the big equipment rutting up soft ground as usually its quite wet... Usually there's a reason no one in the previous 100-200 years didn't farm it? What I'm seeing in general here is farmers concentrating on improving their better acreage and marginal farmland is being cut up and sold.

Also I don't see many people pasturing beef anymore, but that may be a local thing, up here with a shorter growing season its more cost effective to run land as hay fields than pasture as you need hay for 5 months of the year in any case...

Maybe try clearing a smaller chunk and see how it goes, or get your woodland professionally evaluated? The woodland may provide a smaller, but with a fraction of the labor and investment, source of income forever, if managed properly?

^good advice here. Soil type, topography, hydrology, hidden dumps, etc... could all come into play on a piece that large. And getting paid for the trees being removed can't be a bad option to explore.

 

[paulsharvey]

Unless it's planted pines, I don't think there will be much value in timber. Hardwoods are typically worthless unless maybe you have nice straight walnut, then, a custom forester would be well worth it.

Edit: I need to qualify that statement; in my area of N Fla, oaks are the normal hardwood, and are worthless trash trees.

 

[Carl_NH]

You have to check with the local authorities first. Some places require livestock to be fenced out of streams and ponds, especially if you go looking for grants/loans to help with the bills.

Yes, the county Ag Extension Agent can be a great source of info and help, but this is a working farm now, and just suggesting the OP get his plan together with maps and local regs. before bringing/inviting any govt agency on site.

Livestock need water, and this is an existing 300 acre farm so doubt that applies.

 

[BigGG]

Unless it's planted pines, I don't think there will be much value in timber. Hardwoods are typically worthless unless maybe you have nice straight walnut, then, a custom forester would be well worth it.

Edit: I need to qualify that statement; in my area of N Fla, oaks are the normal hardwood, and are worthless trash trees.

I'd consult a forester. I see a lot of hardwood, white oak maybe, around west Tennessee going for staves, pallets and, maybe, ties. When we cut timber in north Mississippi, hardwood pulp was higher than pine pulp. I think it's highly location dependent.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Livestock need water, and this is an existing 300 acre farm so doubt that applies.

In Md., you would be 100% wrong. Ponds are to contain water, you’re supposed to pipe it out to watering troughs, etc for use. The natural resources conservation is coming out Tuesday to check our pond fences and take pictures of it.
The USDA guidelines under water quality suggest fencing out livestock, Md is saying you will do it. Hence the suggestion to check before you start.

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/2022-09/Pond_378_NHCP_CPS_2022.pdf

 

[ddbackhoe]

Unless it's planted pines, I don't think there will be much value in timber. Hardwoods are typically worthless unless maybe you have nice straight walnut, then, a custom forester would be well worth it.

Edit: I need to qualify that statement; in my area of N Fla, oaks are the normal hardwood, and are worthless trash trees.

Locally, they’re still working on a 200 acre clearcut for a new solar farm. That project swamped the local mills and pulpwood is @ 10/ton. The mills are now selling oak @ 1.00 bf retail. Poplar is .75 bf.

 

[big bubba]

do wish you the best on your project, & some good ideas voiced here. to be honest, i don't envy you the job, or what you'll end up with. have you calculated how many yrs row cropping it will take to retrieve your investment which ever method of clearing that you use?

sounds like a lot of work. add the nature of droughts, flooding, & extreme heat & polar vortex sounds like an uphill battle. what really will you be left with on your place at the end of the day? you already have a lot of cleared land, why not just develop that?
but all the best on your endeavor, keep the thread going with your progress
best regards,

 

[deezler]

Do you think most farmland is just magically devoid of trees and it was found that way? OP did not ask for your opinion about whether or not it should be done. If you cared so much you would be out volunteering to plant a few hundred trees a week. But I doubt you are. I planted 280 on my property a month ago....lots of work!

What I think (wait, are you asking my opinion? lol) is that we have plenty of cleared farmland already in this country, and what we need, is more forest and natural habitat, not less. There are thousands of acres of fallow farmland just around my own county here in Michigan. I'm sure there are in TN also.
Not to mention that 87% of our farmland is used for poor-rotation monocrops just to feed livestock. No, I'm not anything close to a vegetarian, but our food system is certainly pretty F%^&d up.

I stated clearly in my first reply that it was not my place to judge the ethical implications of carrying out this sort of idea, but as many others have astutely pointed out, it will also probably be terribly expensive and difficult, and perhaps not even result in achieving the stated goals.

 

[paulsharvey]

Kinda off topic just a bit; but be careful basing financial decisions on short-term commodity prices. Something might make a lot of sense when prices are high, but if you're still paying on a loan 5 years from now, and corn is $4/bushel; that might not be good. No saying bottom will fall out, just saying don't forecast $9 corn to make things work. Forget who said it recently, but "never under estimate the ability of American farmers to over produce and tank record prices in just 24 months".