Chinese digger recommendations

[2manyrocks]

My Power trac 1445 has an auto brake. Is that something that could be added to the hydraulic system on these units? Not having control over downhill speed would be a real concern with my hills.

 

[dfkrug]

It has the Yanmar 3TNV80. The 74 comes in the XH20

That's even better. 1.27-liter.

What was your cost?

Get some inside photos before it gets dusty.

 

[dfkrug]

My Power trac 1445 has an auto brake. Is that something that could be added to the hydraulic system on these units? Not having control over downhill speed would be a real concern with my hills.

That's a tough one.

I briefly looked into replacing my gearoller drive motors with the similar ones from another maker, but gave up on that idea. The ones I wanted were also gearoller motors, but had dual work-port RVs that serve as hydraulic brakes. Just adding the RVs to my motors could work, but I do not know how all the unused ports on my motors are configured.

The way it is usually done on branded minis is to use a 2-speed variable piston motor with planetary final gear drive for the wheel motors. Sometimes there is a wet friction brake inside them as well.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'll interpret that as saying it is not easy to add brakes.

 

[dfkrug]

I'll interpret that as saying it is not easy to add brakes.

I think it would not be hard to just add the RVs, if I could find out how. If this were a White or Eaton or Parker motor, the docs are great and I would have a source.

Maybe someone besides yours truly will figure this out for all our benefit.

 

[2manyrocks]

One of the dealers promotes his particular brand by saying the motor bolt pattern matches one of the USA name brands making it easy to change them out in 10 years. Do you know if the motor bolt pattern is the same for the generic chinese mini excavators or are they different so you can't just change out the motor for White/Eaton/Parker?

 

[dfkrug]

One of the dealers promotes his particular brand by saying the motor bolt pattern matches one of the USA name brands making it easy to change them out in 10 years. Do you know if the motor bolt pattern is the same for the generic chinese mini excavators or are they different so you can't just change out the motor for White/Eaton/Parker?

I have no doubts that you can find replacement motors that have the same bolt pattern. My own motors, which lost their maker-plates, have the same pattern as the 2 spares I have. Those spares are also Chinese motors, but not from the same maker, and the unused ports are in different locations on the casting.

Rather than toss my current motors for ones that have the RVs, I would rather just get the RVs and the know-how to attach them in the correct ports.

Of course, all the folks who are running without filtration may need to replace their wheel motors soon anyway....

 

[dfkrug]

I see a trend in the 3-5T excavators towards selling them with V-twin gas engines, and without the better wheel motors that have braking action. I also see that bizarre hydraulic thumb design that is doomed to fail.

AgroTek had several units like that in the $7-8K range at last Saturday's auction, before fees and tax.

I like the V-twin GX670-clone engines: cheap, powerful, easy to repair.

 

[Jrasband]

Did you get a hydraulic schematic?

I asked Adam if there was a service manual and/or hydraulic/electric schematic and he said, "Yes unfortunately there are no Full Service manuals for any of our machines. The ZX22 has the best book of any machine we have. Some of the other models only have a very basic booklet."

The manual is pretty big, as large as a magazine and probably 100 pages.

As far as electric goes I wanted to share that all of the wires have little labels in English telling you where they go, I was impressed by this as I have never seen a machine with labels on the wires before.

What was your cost?

Get some inside photos before it gets dusty.

It was $23,900 plus shipping,

I'll get some photos soon. I had all the panels off the other day but didn't take any pictures!

 

[Jrasband]

One of the dealers promotes his particular brand by saying the motor bolt pattern matches one of the USA name brands making it easy to change them out in 10 years. Do you know if the motor bolt pattern is the same for the generic chinese mini excavators or are they different so you can't just change out the motor for White/Eaton/Parker?

There are two brands I know of, Kymron and Groundhog.

 

[Jrasband]

I have no doubts that you can find replacement motors that have the same bolt pattern. My own motors, which lost their maker-plates, have the same pattern as the 2 spares I have. Those spares are also Chinese motors, but not from the same maker, and the unused ports are in different locations on the casting.

Rather than toss my current motors for ones that have the RVs, I would rather just get the RVs and the know-how to attach them in the correct ports.

Of course, all the folks who are running without filtration may need to replace their wheel motors soon anyway....

What is it that makes the wheel motors particularly vulnerable without filtration?

Of all the machines I looked at I did not see any with filters on them, including the Kymron ZX22 - Sounds like this is is something I need to consider adding, space is really tight so it will be challenging.

 

[D'oh]

I see a trend in the 3-5T excavators towards selling them with V-twin gas engines, and without the better wheel motors that have braking action. I also see that bizarre hydraulic thumb design that is doomed to fail.

AgroTek had several units like that in the $7-8K range at last Saturday's auction, before fees and tax.

I like the V-twin GX670-clone engines: cheap, powerful, easy to repair.

The only issue I have had in all of my V Twins, (but the Traner45 Gravity Fuel) 739cc Rato and 999cc ? is the Vacuum Fuel Lift Pumps, a $15 Electric Low Pressure Fuel Pump fixes that issue. And the Torch (brand) Spark Plugs.

 

[dfkrug]

The only issue I have had in all of my V Twins, (but the Traner45 Gravity Fuel) 739cc Rato and 999cc ? is the Vacuum Fuel Lift Pumps, a $15 Electric Low Pressure Fuel Pump fixes that issue. And the Torch (brand) Spark Plugs.

yeah, the diaphragm fuel pumps are probably the same as on your lawn tractor. They go out or get weak rapidly as the diaphragm gets stiff from the 10% ethanol fuel. $10 on eBay, and regular replacement item. I use the $15 electric pump on my Samurai, and have already had one fail.

There are a number of Chonda thumpers now in the 450+cc range, but nothing over 500cc AFAIK. Yet. That's 2-cylinder territory, and they go from 600+ ccs up to a liter or so. Honda even has them with FI ($$$$).

I have not had problems with the Torch plugs. Denso, Bosch, or even Champion may be the better plugs these days.

 

[dfkrug]

What is it that makes the wheel motors particularly vulnerable without filtration?

Of all the machines I looked at I did not see any with filters on them, including the Kymron ZX22 - Sounds like this is is something I need to consider adding, space is really tight so it will be challenging.

The whole hyd system is very vulnerable to dirty fluid, but variable piston motors (and pumps) are especially so. Worn-out gear pumps and leaky gearoller wheel motor seals have been reported for Chinese minis with no pressure-return filtration.

I would be surprised if the ZX22 has no return filter. But hey, I have been surprised before. Like the Diggit machine I have worked on, it may have in-line filter(s), that are kinda hidden. You really want a 10u easy-to-service cartridge filter.

Get any manuals you can, but you should also do your own investigations.

 

[Jrasband]

The whole hyd system is very vulnerable to dirty fluid, but variable piston motors (and pumps) are especially so. Worn-out gear pumps and leaky gearoller wheel motor seals have been reported for Chinese minis with no pressure-return filtration.

I would be surprised if the ZX22 has no return filter. But hey, I have been surprised before. Like the Diggit machine I have worked on, it may have in-line filter(s), that are kinda hidden. You really want a 10u easy-to-service cartridge filter.

Get any manuals you can, but you should also do your own investigations.

The manual talks about a hydraulic filter insert that is replaced after 50 hours than every 500 hours after that. The manual states if you are doing hammer work hydraulic oil/filter need to be replaced sooner and indicates percentage.

The manual says there is also a breather filter on the hydraulic oil reservoir.

The manual does not tell me where the hydraulic filter is or how to change it - all service related topics refer operator to licensed Kymron service center.

I will take the panels off again soon and take pictures. If you see where the hydraulic filters are please let me know.

 

[Jrasband]

Here is some pictures of the inside of the Kymron ZX22

 

[Carl_NH]

Nice clean routing of hoses and access to turnstile/slew motor, Also the "house" underneath the machine is totally enclosed with grease on the mating surfaces, The house is rotating on the base frame making it more durable along with the slew motor long term.

These are the things that make the machine cost more to build.

 

[Carl_NH]

I know you asked about filters - didn't see any in the pics, but there should be at least two and hopefully three. 1- is inside the hyd oil tank, 2, should be one on the pilot controls (small 2"x7") and 3 on the return hyd oil back into the cooler then to the tank.

The in tank one is a coarse 80u intake filter for large particles , the more important one is the in line return oil filter which you should have I would hope on this "pro" version from Kymron.

 

[Jrasband]

I know you asked about filters - didn't see any in the pics, but there should be at least two and hopefully three. 1- is inside the hyd oil tank, 2, should be one on the pilot controls (small 2"x7") and 3 on the return hyd oil back into the cooler then to the tank.

The in tank one is a coarse 80u intake filter for large particles , the more important one is the in line return oil filter which you should have I would hope on this "pro" version from Kymron.

1. - I know that it has a filter inside of the hydraulic tank - It is under the plate on top of the tank.
2. Where would it be in the pilot controls you think? I have not located anything yet. Is the pilot controls the housing where all the lines come together in th picture?
3. How do I know which line is the return line? Looking at the two lines at the bottom of the tank - One goes to valve body(pilot control?), the other goes to the hydraulic pump housing next to the engine.

What would be the best way to go about adding an aftermarket filter in the return line? I thought maybe a filter could go under the cooler/radiator or under the valve body(pilot control?)

 

[Jrasband]

Is this a suitable filter for the return line? Lenz Spin-On Filters Assembly: 10 Micron, 1 1/4 NPTF Port, 15 PSI Bypass, CP-1280-10P-T