Chainsaw sharpening, hand or grind?!

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd, take a look at this entire video from Stihl, once they get into the actual filing it's got lots of useful tips and techniques....

How to Sharpen Your STIHL Chainsaw Chain - YouTube

NOTE: at 6min/15 seconds into the video it shows and states ALWAYS file from the inside OUT, and again at 6min/38seconds.
Inside out means from the inside, (center of the bar), to the outside of the tooth's extended edge beyond the confines of the actual chain and bar.

Filing the opposite way is INcorrect, period.

Oh, I've forgotten to mention the importance of adjusting the depth gauges as well as the teeth. This video also shows exactly how to do this correctly. If not done, or done incorrectly everything else being done right won't matter much because the chain still won't cut properly....

CM

I've got a dull chain. I'm going to sharpen it from the outside in. Opposite of what I've always done. I'm going to the timber tomorrow. I'll post results.

Let me make my legal statement here. I'm not trying to argue. I'm simply trying to figure out the best way to hand file. So let's not get pi**y over this. Let's just learn.

I'm not going to post a video!!!!! I got myself into an ugly situation doing that!!!!

The depth gauges are something that I've never addressed. I know as the cutting teeth get shorter the chain becomes less effective. I'll dig out an old chain and experiment with shortening the depth gauges.

Thanks for all the info guys!!!

 

[Coyote machine]

When I started filing, I would file "into" the teeth, meaning from the outer edge to the center. Watching a few online videos, including the Stihl one, made me second guess myself, as they show to file from the center to the outside. All other things that I have sharpened in my life contradict this, (knives, mower blades, drill bits, etc...) so I really don't know which is best. This is an interesting conversation.

Trust me when I say this: there may be two ways to pull/push the file, but there is ONLY one correct way, and it's what the Stihl video shows, from the centerline of the bar pushing the file to the outermost edge of the tooth. Think about how the wood is cut by the teeth. The wood catches the highest and furthest out portions of each tooth and rides back to the center of the bar, inside tooth edge, so it is in effect riding and being cut in the opposite direction of the filing motion.

Microscopic barbs are cut into the surface of the cutter when filed, ground correctly. These barbs are what rip the wood fibers and make the wood chips when a chain is sharp. When the chain dulls is when one starts to see sawdust instead of chips. If one files toward the inside the barbs in the cutters would not grab hold of the wood, since they would face in the same direction of the wood flow into the cutters.

 

[ovrszd]

My hope here is that this discussion can be continued to resolution without bitter feelings. There's a lot to be learned here if we can all just be open minded!!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Coyote machine]

I've got a dull chain. I'm going to sharpen it from the outside in. Opposite of what I've always done. I'm going to the timber tomorrow. I'll post results.

Let me make my legal statement here. I'm not trying to argue. I'm simply trying to figure out the best way to hand file. So let's not get pi**y over this. Let's just learn.

I'm not going to post a video!!!!! I got myself into an ugly situation doing that!!!!

The depth gauges are something that I've never addressed. I know as the cutting teeth get shorter the chain becomes less effective. I'll dig out an old chain and experiment with shortening the depth gauges.

Thanks for all the info guys!!!

Don't worry, Mike, I'm not going to allow this thread to turn into what the previous one did, and you won't have to worry about mandatory videos like before.:confused2:
I will say if you cut you depth gauges EXACTLY how the Stihl video showed AND file from in to out you will get the best cut. And if you've never addressed the depth gauges you're in for a big surprise too. Tell the truth, I did not know about sharpening/ rounding them off either for the longest time, either, so my chains had to have been only as good as the relationship to the depth gauge's height. :confused3:
Once I found out how to get the depth gauges where they needed to be it made a big jump in the quality of my chain's ability to cut as designed.

No one here is looking to get into a contest either, I for one am here to hone my own skills, learning process too. I know nothing about ripping chain for instance, and many other facets of why pros and amateurs alike may choose something other than a round file picco type chain.

Carry on, and let us know if sharpening backwards has any benefit for you?!

 

[Coyote machine]

My hope here is that this discussion can be continued to resolution without bitter feelings. There's a lot to be learned here if we can all just be open minded!!!! :thumbsup:

No worries, mate; I control the horizontal/ vertical in my own thread, if it starts to tip, I'll close it faster than a clamshell.:thumbsup:

 

[mikehaugen]

No one here is looking to get into a contest either, I for one am here to hone my own skills, learning process too. I know nothing about ripping chain for instance, and many other facets of why pros and amateurs alike may choose something other than a round file picco type chain.

I agree, I love hearing different viewpoints as long as they stay civil.

CM and Ovrszd, I believe you two are in agreement as to which direction to file. I filed my last chain that way as well because of the different videos I had seen a while ago, but I haven't tried it yet.

 

[mikehaugen]

I have a 361 now as well as a top handle. I would kind of like one smaller and one bigger someday. Probably a 261, but would going up to a 441 be worth it, or it be better to go 660? Maybe a 461?

 

[ovrszd]

No worries, mate; I control the horizontal/ vertical in my own thread, if it starts to tip, I'll close it faster than a clamshell.:thumbsup:

I'm really interested in the depth gauge discussion. I've always thought they should be shortened as the chain wears because the "top" of the cutting tooth is tapered, getting shorter as it wears. Logically the depth gauge has to be shortened to compensate. I'm gonna experiment with that.Thanks for your support Coyote Machine.

 

[ovrszd]

I have a 361 now as well as a top handle. I would kind of like one smaller and one bigger someday. Probably a 261, but would going up to a 441 be worth it, or it be better to go 660? Maybe a 461?

I had a 029 and an 021. My shop burned with my saws in it. I replaced with a 361 and a 250. When I was shopping I told my dealer I loved my Farm Boss 029 but sometimes I would get a little tired of leaning on the handle waiting for it to cut. He said, buy this 361 and you won't have to wait. He was right. Great saw. With a fast cut chain it is amazing. Not saying it's the best. Just saying it fits me needs perfectly!!! I actually use the 250 more than the 361. But when you need to fall a large tree or block up a large log, the 361 rules. I'm a Stihl freak. Very little maintenance. Easy to run/start. Easy to find parts/accessories.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm really interested in the depth gauge discussion. I've always thought they should be shortened as the chain wears because the "top" of the cutting tooth is tapered, getting shorter as it wears. Logically the depth gauge has to be shortened to compensate. I'm gonna experiment with that.Thanks for your support Coyote Machine.

No problem, you're among friends here! Discussion and comparison, and what works is what these threads should be about, and to take away what works for different people, as well as learning the basics/ correct way to do certain key elements.

 

[LD1]

Yes the depth gauges need lowered as you sharpen. Personally, I go even more than recommended. Much better performance.

 

[cqaigy2]

Yes the depth gauges need lowered as you sharpen. Personally, I go even more than recommended. Much better performance.

I've done that too. As long as your powerhead has the ability to pull the chain. If you get too far out on depth, you might notice it porpoising and that makes your cut less efficient.

I don't recall what madens sells for files, but they do well on the stihl chains.

 

[Furu]

Filing depth gauges is not necessary every time but should be checked with a gauge. There are several brands of gauges available in different sizes. If you file them down too much you can bog down your saw and the saw can very aggressively pull you into the cut. I think Stihl recommends .025 for most or maybe it is .026. I have run .030 and the chip size goes up a lot, takes a bigger motor and do not let go off the saw as it is aggressive in the cut. I may have the numbers wrong on that but think those are right.

 

[tjkubota93]

I just ordered 1 small carbide because I bought a cs310 from my buddy. You can usually find promo codes if you are buying a timberline sharpener.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I personally find it hard to believe that it's not possible for a experienced hand filer todo as good as factory or not better some of the most exspensive diamonds in history was hand cut to unbelievable accuracy, I would think buick and deer may be right about most hand sharpeners but excellence can still come from a steady hand and knowledge .im not great at it and can't ever get it as good as new but I think it would still be possible with exsperience. And coyote is getting kinda old, lol.

 

[mountainlake]

Taking the rakers down is just as important as a sharp cutter, if you have sharp cutters and it doesn't cut good it's the rakers. Steve

 

[JimRB]

Links from Oregon Chain about how cutters work, different chain types and proper stroke when hand filing.

How A Cutter Tooth Works
Understanding Cutter Teeth On Pro Saw Chain
OREGON Maintenance and Tips
http://www.oregoncuttinggear.com/pdfs/ms_manual.pdf

 

[ovrszd]

Filing depth gauges is not necessary every time but should be checked with a gauge. There are several brands of gauges available in different sizes. If you file them down too much you can bog down your saw and the saw can very aggressively pull you into the cut. I think Stihl recommends .025 for most or maybe it is .026. I have run .030 and the chip size goes up a lot, takes a bigger motor and do not let go off the saw as it is aggressive in the cut. I may have the numbers wrong on that but think those are right.

So, if I laid a straight edge on top of the cutter teeth, I should have .030 clearance between the straight edge and the top of depth gauge??

 

[DeereMann]

OK, we got another small snow yesterday (2-3"), so I got seat time instead of chain sharpening demo time (awww!!!), will have to try again tonight. We keep getting these northwest small snows every 3 days or so this year. Love the new tractor - it blasts right thru the snowplow drifts unlike my previous gasser with 47" blower.

Anyway, just for fun, I sent Stihl a clarification request on their position about chain sharpening in terms of direction of sharpening. Their response is below - keep in mind as you read it, nowhere do they address how to get the cutters sharpest - only perfecting the "angle", a typical German response of low value, in my experienced view (yes, I am German ancestry). Recall the old experienced Forester I learned from told me to get the cutters sharp using a hand file, you need to file in the direction as you would any knife. Do as you wish, just sayin' you get a lot sharper filing (by hand) this way. There is little "risk" of wrecking your cutters, give it a try, see what you think. With a grinder it doesn't matter because you remove material so much faster. Yes, a bit OCD, but I cut a lot of hard, dry oak so it's important to me. Back with home photos soon.....

My question to Stihl Technical Service:
comments: Hello, I own 4 Stihl Chainsaws, beginning 25 years ago. They are great. We are debating chain sharpening method. Your manuals say to sharpen "from the inside to the outside of the cutter" - but this is opposite direction of how one sharpens any kitchen knife - from the direction that the cut item enters the cut. I have sharpened chain both your way & from the "outside in" with my hand round files and find the "outside in" produces a much sharper edge as with a sharp knife. Please explain why you recommend sharpening in opposite direction that wood is being cut. Thank you.

Stihl Reply:
Hello Mr. Mann,



We are in receipt of and thank you for your e-mail.



We recommend filing the cutter teeth of chain from the inside to the outside because the material being filed off the edge is easily disposed of once the filing is complete. Filing the cutter tooth always creates a burr at the edge, and that burr must be removed once the filing is complete. The burr is easily removed by use of a flat file along the outer edge of each tooth. To file the teeth in the opposite direction creates the burr along the inner edge of the cutter tooth. This burr is more difficult to remove, and cause an inaccurate filing angle if allowed to build up over time.



Thank you again for your e-mail.



Best regards,

Wayne Lemmond

Technical Service Representative

STIHL Inc.

 

[mikehaugen]

I don't remember in the Stihl video that I watched, them saying anything about using a flat file on the outside of the chain... though I guess I see his point, if you were going to do that step. Does anyone do that?