Chainsaw sharpening, hand or grind?!

[ultrarunner]

Sorry to burst your bubble about your superhuman prowess and the wisdom of ages that has been bestowed upon you. A properly hand sharpened chain will work ok but there is no way it will perform like a factory fresh edge.
I suppose you can scrape babbit bearings and get a 80% surface too.

I've had excellent results scraping babbitt bearings... just takes a long time to do it right with Prussian Blue and Plastigage...

Never hand sharpened a chainsaw chain yet.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

1926 Model T Ford: Fitting the rod bearings - YouTube

Have to say scraping babbitt bearings was a new one on me. I remember as a kid dad taking out shims if he heard some rod knock.

The pouring and boring we when I worked in a took and die shop for a while before the Navy was on a huge rod out of a single cylinder compressor in a milk company before they sold to Dean Foods. We order a huge piece of pipe that was smaller than the crank journal and after pouring it we set it up on a mill and bored it to size so there was no scraping like in the video.

It is impressive to see how some can shape metal with hand tools.

 

[Coyote machine]

Great post Coyote & indicative of your many years of experience - nothing beats a hand filed chain !!:thumbsup:

Excellent post Coyote!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Sorry to burst your bubble about your superhuman prowess and the wisdom of ages that has been bestown upon you. A properly hand sharpened chain will work ok but there is no way it will perform like a factory fresh edge.
I suppose you can scrape babbit bearings and get a 80% surface too.

You can be as sarcastic as you want and make ridiculous accusations about things I never said; about bubbles and my superhuman powers etc. and wisdom coming from actual experience, but nothing you say will influence anything I do or the accuracy of my sharpening skills. Take your factory fresh edge and figure out a good place to store it - use you imagination, or better yet go over to the other thread that was closed and share your one note take on chains, and irrelevant bearing scraping nonsense.
If you have nothing positive to contribute or share just go away.

 

[catskinner]

I just bought a Timberline sharpener, and after reading over a ton of pages on decided it was for me. Not only does it do a great job sharpening, It showed me that my hand filing needed help on one side. Great tool.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Thanks for that report. It is the coolest thing I have seen. Do you only need one size mill or did you buy one of all four?

 

[ultrarunner]

1926 Model T Ford: Fitting the rod bearings - YouTube

Have to say scraping babbitt bearings was a new one on me. I remember as a kid dad taking out shims if he heard some rod knock.

The pouring and boring we when I worked in a tool and die shop for a while before the Navy was on a huge rod out of a single cylinder compressor in a milk company before they sold to Dean Foods. We order a huge piece of pipe that was smaller than the crank journal and after pouring it we set it up on a mill and bored it to size so there was no scraping like in the video.

It is impressive to see how some can shape metal with hand tools.

Looks like I might buy a timberline for myself this Christmas...

Most of my cars have babbitt bearings... don't put many miles on them these days... there was a time when I would think nothing of jumping in the Model A and drive from San Francisco to Reno and back for a meet.

The nice thing about the old stuff is most things could really be repaired with a few hand tools... kind of like the art of freehand sharpening a chain...

Bearing Shims, Water Pump Packing, Grease Cups, Adjustable Generator Brushes with no tools for the night ride home with the lights on...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I do not think a lot of people today realize machine tools did not create the early industrial revolution but it was men with hand tools and a black smith shop. The tools came later to do repetitive tasks over and over at a faster and more accurate rate.

Those who can not do things with their mind and hand coordination have an emotional need to hurt those who can as we can see read.

I will keep my eye open for a used Timberline just for the heck of it. If we can get our steel table into the old garage this week and get the vice mounted on it I would like to test out the HF sharpener.

 

[ultrarunner]

Several of my friends have the HF sharpener and they really like it... the only thing is they are only ocasional chainsaw users of the homeowner catagory.

Just last week I was cutting a storm fallen heritage oak and the first cut with my new chain hit bob wire that was probably 80 years old or older... the boundary line of the old Spanish Land Grant runs through the property and trees were used as post where ever they could... post have old square nails just to indicate how old they are and made of old growth heart redwood...

 

[RalphVa]

The local hardware store takes ours and sends them to a shop. Costs $6 for a 14" chain. Do a marvelous job. After about a dozen sharpenings, the blades are about ground down. Time for a new chain. Used to do my own using various means. Often would end up with a chain that cut in a circle rather than straight.

Ralph

 

[newbury]

The local hardware store takes ours and sends them to a shop. Costs $6 for a 14" chain. Do a marvelous job. After about a dozen sharpenings, the blades are about ground down. Time for a new chain. Used to do my own using various means. Often would end up with a chain that cut in a circle rather than straight.

Ralph

Ay, there's the rub. Over on Arboristsite there are frequent reports of the "local" sharpenings ruining a chain. If you have a GOOD local shop that does it for a few $$ go for it.

The primary problem I have with tools like the Timberline is it doesn't do ripping chain.

It took me about ten or twenty times hand sharpening before I got to what I consider proficient. If you are the average cutter who needs sharpening only a few times a year you may never learn the motor skills to put a good edge on the chain. You have to pay attention to two angles, the pressure used, length of stroke etc. Like riding a bicycle or swimming it's real easy, once you learn how.

"Cutting circles" is common when you vary the angles and pressure when sharpening the different sides of the chain. I did that for a bit when I'd use my right hand for one side and left for the other.

The Granberg File-N-Joint takes care of the angles but not the pressure used. A GOOD grinder takes care of all.

 

[newbury]

The local hardware store takes ours and sends them to a shop. Costs $6 for a 14" chain. Do a marvelous job. After about a dozen sharpenings, the blades are about ground down. Time for a new chain. Used to do my own using various means. Often would end up with a chain that cut in a circle rather than straight.

Ralph

Ay, there's the rub. Over on Arboristsite there are frequent reports of the "local" sharpenings ruining a chain. If you have a GOOD local shop that does it for a few $$ go for it.

The primary problem I have with tools like the Timberline is it doesn't do ripping chain.

It took me about ten or twenty times hand sharpening before I got to what I consider proficient. If you are the average cutter who needs sharpening only a few times a year you may never learn the motor skills to put a good edge on the chain. You have to pay attention to two angles, the pressure used, length of stroke etc. Like riding a bicycle or swimming it's real easy, once you learn how.

"Cutting circles" is common when you vary the angles and pressure when sharpening the different sides of the chain. I did that for a bit when I'd use my right hand for one side and left for the other.

The Granberg File-N-Joint takes care of the angles but not the pressure used. A GOOD grinder takes care of all.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It is going a year without doing it that trips me up. I can and have done a lot of file fitting growing up on the farm without a shop and later with a lathe. It is the staying in practice that makes it hard today. My sawing is on the place unless there is a storm that blocks roads so I can just go to the house and grind if needed.

I think when I get it set up doing a 'kiss' touch up often with the HF grinder will keep me cutting faster because I am bad about not stopping and 'rubbing' the logs apart the last 30 minutes of sawing.

 

[ovrszd]

I think when I get it set up doing a 'kiss' touch up often with the HF grinder will keep me cutting faster because I am bad about not stopping and 'rubbing' the logs apart the last 30 minutes of sawing.

Yep, I learned several years ago that when the chain feels dull, stop and sharpen or trade it out. I only have to spend a lot of time on a chain if I've hit something like metal or rock and destroyed the chain. Most of the time it's a couple strokes with the file when taking a break, fueling up or lunch break.

 

[catskinner]

Thanks for that report. It is the coolest thing I have seen. Do you only need one size mill or did you buy one of all four?

I bought the three I needed, wish I bought all four, now the guys at work want me to sharpen theirs, but two of them have ordered their own after trying mine in the parking lot.

If you do a lot of chains, having them off the saw, grinder is good, on the saw, Timberline gets my vote. One comment about the pressure on the file is key. So far everyone that used my Timberline saw that they file more one way than the other. Going with a grinder also means different wheels and dressing the wheel also.

 

[tjkubota93]

I only bought the one I needed. Now I am going to have to buy another, because I got another saw with smaller chain. I did get the additional angle inserts when I bought it.

 

[DeereMann]

I do same as you, CoyoteMachine - been cuttin' for 40+ years, some semi-professionally as well.

The chain teeth hold an edge longer by hand-filling. Electric filing tempers the hardened steel used for the teeth from the heat, softening the hardened steel. Then the teeth need more frequent sharpening in ever-decreasing service intervals.

After you've done enough of these, you don't need a file holder. I use a worn out bar guide for the chain holder. Clamp the bar guide in the workbench vise.

 

[buickanddeere]

You can be as sarcastic as you want and make ridiculous accusations about things I never said; about bubbles and my superhuman powers etc. and wisdom coming from actual experience, but nothing you say will influence anything I do or the accuracy of my sharpening skills. Take your factory fresh edge and figure out a good place to store it - use you imagination, or better yet go over to the other thread that was closed and share your one note take on chains, and irrelevant bearing scraping nonsense.
If you have nothing positive to contribute or share just go away.

Sorry that you don't have facts and have to resort to veiled threats instead. A pro can hand sharpen to a decent edge most of the time. The average Joe with some practice can have a fresh accurate sharp and straight cutting chain . With a minimal investment of time and capital.
As for concerns about overheated cutters loosing their edge. It comes done to proper setup. The wheel only has to make a light touch to freshen the edge. Loss of temper if there was any is not a concern.

 

[Redbug]

The type of chain has a good bit to do with how much you sharpen, too. Chisel chain cuts faster than semi-chisel, but dulls quickly in gritty conditions. Semi-chisel chain cuts slower than chisel, but stays sharper longer in gritty conditions. Square chisel cuts the fastest, but dulls quickly in gritty conditions and is hard to file.

I also have one saw that has a bull nose bar on it. It is better for gritty conditions than a bar with a sprocket on the end. I try to use semi chisel chain on all my saws except the ones that take narrow picco chain.

 

[DeereMann]

Yeah, I don't cut as much as I used to, but still use full chisel as we mostly cut dry solid oak. If I cut as much I might look at an electric sharpener, but as it stands today - I can get by with sharpening by hand a couple times a year.

I think I got turned off on the electrics way back when - dropped 'em off at a shop & the boneheads there probably laid into 'em & tempered 'em. Weekend high schooler-type dudes. Anyway, for sure they didn't stay sharp very long.

 

[hslogger]

Time to chime......in. There are so many variables in filing your chain correctly. If I am running round file chain, I handfile. STIHL brand chain in the bigger chain is really HARD. It is hard to handfile free hand. All my 32, 36, and 42 inch stuff goes on my Simmington chisel bit grinder that I have had for twenty five years or better. I won't even try and touch it up by hand. I grind the gullets out with a wheel, but do file the rakers down by hand.Oregon brand chisel can be hand filed, but if you get in the league of having a chisel grinder, you won't ever handfile again.

Like I said STIHL brand chain is very hard and for me, way too hard for hand filing. I can hand file any ol Oregon brand chain pretty well, it is softer. All my micro saws, I hand file, just fine. For my money the PFERD brand files are the very best.You can get them from Baileys, maybe Madsens. I use a Salmon colored wheel on my Simmington chisel grinder.

Fallem, limb'm, buckem up and ship em.

Oh yeah, last but not least. When handfiling I ALWAYS wear White Ox heavy cotton gloves. Always