Car trouble. Dealership scam?

[N80]

I've got a 10 year old F150 that burns about a quart every 1000 or so. No leaks on the ground. No oil underneath or in engine bay. No blue smoke. Runs great, has always been reliable.

The other day my wife asked if it needed an oil change. I told her that now it never needed an oil change since it was getting a fresh quart every 1000 miles.

I think she believed me.

Here is a true stealership story. Harrelson Nissan in Rock Hill, SC. Had brakes done on my 1990 Pathfinder. This was in about 1998. I go to pick it up and they tell me there is a problem and to come back to the garage to see. One of the lug studs is broken. They quote me some ridiculous price to replace it. Then the mechanic (young punk) tells me they are ALL bad. Watch, he says, and starts cranking away at a lug nut with his impact wrench. Pop! the stud breaks. Watch, he says, and starts to do another one. I told him not to touch my truck again with that impact wrench. Drove it home with two broken lug studs, had them replaced elsewhere and drove the truck for years more with no lug stud problems. Essentially he was tearing up my car while I watched and expecting me to pay.

I'm not too sure there is anything they won't do if they think they can get away with it.

The funny thing is, I know lots of people in many lines of work and very few of those people are the type who will take monetary advantage of someone just because they can. So how is it that so many dealerships are able to employ so many unscrupulous and dishonest people, from the management all the way to the mechanics?

And my last conspiracy theory rant is this: I think a lot of CEL codes, or at least the sensitivity level for throwing codes, is a calculated money maker for the dealerships and designed specifically that way by the manufacturer as part of their revenue. And while that may sound crazy, it has been fairly well documented that many parts ARE designed with an obsolescence date that is far earlier than most of the other parts on the car and that the replacement and repair of these parts is calculated into the revenue stream by the manufacturer. So suspecting that some codes serve the same purpose is not that much of a stretch.

 

[aczlan]

Here is a true stealership story. Harrelson Nissan in Rock Hill, SC. Had brakes done on my 1990 Pathfinder. This was in about 1998. I go to pick it up and they tell me there is a problem and to come back to the garage to see. One of the lug studs is broken. They quote me some ridiculous price to replace it. Then the mechanic (young punk) tells me they are ALL bad. Watch, he says, and starts cranking away at a lug nut with his impact wrench. Pop! the stud breaks. Watch, he says, and starts to do another one. I told him not to touch my truck again with that impact wrench. Drove it home with two broken lug studs, had them replaced elsewhere and drove the truck for years more with no lug stud problems. Essentially he was tearing up my car while I watched and expecting me to pay.

That would have cost the stealership two studs at their expense (installed elsewhere and them footing the bill) after a nice chat with the manager and the dimwit about the proper torque settings...

Aaron Z

 

[Bird]

And while that may sound crazy, it has been fairly well documented that many parts ARE designed with an obsolescence date that is far earlier than most of the other parts on the car and that the replacement and repair of these parts is calculated into the revenue stream by the manufacturer.

I don't think that situation is as bad now as it used to be. When my Dad owned an auto parts store in the late '50s through the mid-70s, I learned about a lot of that. Some of it was almost unbelievable.

 

[MotorSeven]

The funny thing is, I know lots of people in many lines of work and very few of those people are the type who will take monetary advantage of someone just because they can. So how is it that so many dealerships are able to employ so many unscrupulous and dishonest people, from the management all the way to the mechanics?

They are not all 'bad", but yes, I completely agree that there is an abnormally high percentage that fleece you whenever they can. I can honestly say that due to these shenanigans I hesitate to even buy "new".

 

[jinman]

I think the dealerships are pushing their techs to do a high volume of work and the techs are bustin' their behinds to cut every corner they can on the flat rate schedule so they get paid for twice the amount of time that jobs take. That formula has always been a recipe for disaster and sloppy work. Expensive locations, fancy showrooms, lots of advertising, and a lot full of cars is what the average dealership is today. They have to make their margins somewhere and the shop is a huge profit center.

I have a great mechanic at his own garage. He has a nice shop, but none of the ridiculous overhead a dealership must maintain. I've been completely satisfied with the work he does. If you have a job done in his shop and he notices something else wrong, he will tell you, but there is absolutely no pressure if you want to hold off. His shop is always full of cars and his business is great. Yet, he also maintains integrity. He does state inspections by the book and refuses to turn a blind eye to safety issues. He tells you up front that his inspections are by the book, but will point you down the street to another shop that is not so strict in their interpretations of the law. He just won't take a chance on his certification being pulled. I take all my work to him and have been thrilled with the results, but frankly, I get my inspections down the street where I get my oil changed.

 

[dmccarty]

Here is a true stealership story. Harrelson Nissan in Rock Hill, SC. Had brakes done on my 1990 Pathfinder. This was in about 1998. I go to pick it up and they tell me there is a problem and to come back to the garage to see. One of the lug studs is broken. They quote me some ridiculous price to replace it. Then the mechanic (young punk) tells me they are ALL bad. Watch, he says, and starts cranking away at a lug nut with his impact wrench. Pop! the stud breaks. Watch, he says, and starts to do another one. I told him not to touch my truck again with that impact wrench. Drove it home with two broken lug studs, had them replaced elsewhere and drove the truck for years more with no lug stud problems. Essentially he was tearing up my car while I watched and expecting me to pay.

I had something similar happen to a truck I used to own. I went to a place to get new tires and I can't remember if this was a chain of stores but it was not a dealer. A coworker had used the place and recommended them. I and they made a mistake when I ordered the new tires. I wanted some tires that did well in the rain and that is what I ordered. Unfortunately, I and the shop did not notice that the load rating's on the tire were not high enough for my truck. I did notice after I ordered and I called them up so we could get a different set of tires. No big deal.

that afternoon, the coworker drops me off and I go to pay up. They start telling me that I had to pay for some tire studs that broke. Excuse me? There is nothing wrong with the tire studs when I brought the truck in here. Long story short, I did NOT pay for the studs that the so called mechanic broke with an air wrench. The mechanic is hearing what is going on an starts throwing stuff around the shop and having a fit. Really? Is this nursery school? Oh, but it is not over. I can't drive the truck home because this dufus had left the ignition on, which left the glow plugs on, which in turned, trained the truck batteries.

I WAS NOT HAPPY. I told them to keep that guy away from my truck...

I had no way home, so one of their employees drove me home. Nice guy, just out of the Navy. I went back the next morning to pick up the truck, after they charged up the batteries, and I never went back. I hope they fired that so called mechanic. He needed to be in a rubber room somewhere.

Later,
Dan

 

[sld]

And my last conspiracy theory rant is this: I think a lot of CEL codes, or at least the sensitivity level for throwing codes, is a calculated money maker for the dealerships and designed specifically that way by the manufacturer as part of their revenue. And while that may sound crazy, it has been fairly well documented that many parts ARE designed with an obsolescence date that is far earlier than most of the other parts on the car and that the replacement and repair of these parts is calculated into the revenue stream by the manufacturer. So suspecting that some codes serve the same purpose is not that much of a stretch.

Engineers determine when the CEL comes on, not the Accountants. Myth is debunked.

 

[bladesx]

Back to the op problem, best thing to do is replace all coils at same time same brand ( and yes mixed coils can cause problems) also all plugs ( plug wires also if used) making sure to use dielectric grease in side all of the boots and electrical connections. Second find the ground/s for the computer sections- clean and grease connections to prevent corrosion. Bad grounds can cause all kinds of problems totally random in nature.In some cases the computer housing itself is the ground (Nissan used to to do it that way haven't had one in many years ) Dove me bonkers for about six months as all the tests started out by removing the computer from its mounting area,ie removing and reinstalling corrected ground issue on a temporary basis.
One of the responders said that all units will identify which cylinder is misfiring since 1996, this is not true they will identify which bank( ford 96-99) but not the particular cylinder on v6,8 & 10s. The difficulty with coils is that they can check good with simple tools, sometimes even with the fancy ones but when that high voltage pulse is triggered the dielectric strength of the materials may not be up to the task.

 

[Dags1]

Go to justanswer .com and you can work it out with a expert in Nisson for under $20.
Certified techs will help you until satisfied or your money back.
Miss fires can be caused by so many different things you need to gather all info before
making any determination as to what is wrong.
I've used them and it's not a scam if you don't like who is helping you ask for another tech.

Best of luck to your son

 

[Lloyd_E]

Ford f150 2002. Had a few coils replaced over the years Some at dealers$$$ and local shop. Local shop was $217... Another coil went 3 months later and took it to a new mechanic we are using. Wait for it... Price: about 90 bucks. We had some other stuff done to my wife's car at the same time. My wife took her car into the shop we stopped using - it is convenient for her. Oil change and winter tires put on... $170.00. Little steep I think. They also looked at the rear wiper not working - motor bad.

I don't trust dealerships anymore regardless of brand.

 

[Bird]

I don't trust dealerships anymore regardless of brand.

In my opinion, it used to be that dealers did good work, but charged high prices, and I know some tried to sell you things you didn't really need. So for most of my life, I used independent mechanics for things I didn't do myself. However, for the last 8 years I've been using a Ford dealer that I think is honest. For one job that I thought was too high priced, I checked with a well thought of (and recommended by AAA) independent garage and their price was just a tiny bit higher.

Car dealers have changed over the years, just as everything else has. I'll never forget a Cadillac dealer in Dallas that was very highly thought of. Of course all their salesmen 50 years ago wore suits and ties. In 1960, I had a 1955 Cadillac Coupe DeVille myself. One day I was driving by and noticed a 1950 Cadillac on the lot and my Dad had mentioned wishing he had one. So I stopped and went inside to ask how much they wanted for that 1950 model. Well, I was wearing Khaki trousers and a sport shirt at the time and they were clean and neat, however, all the salesmen walked away to try to avoid me. I finally cornered one and asked what they wanted for that 1950 model. He said it belonged to an employee and quickly walked away.

Then came a day that I had a very minor accident; my fault, rear ended another car. It was so minor that the investigating officer asked, "No damage to yours?" I showed him how a small part on the grill was very slightly damaged. Since my Dad owned an auto parts store, I checked and found a new part would cost less than $20, but it really wasn't worth fixing. But then one day I was in Dallas, wearing a suit and tie, so I drove into the service department of that Cadillac dealer just for the fun of it. A service writer immediately came hurrying out to ask, "What can we do for you, sir?" and when I told him I wanted an estimate to repair the damage on the front end, he asked if I'd like a cup of coffee while I waited, and they wrote me up an estimate for only $360.:laughing:

I don't think any of us would want to return to those days.:laughing:

 

[dmccarty]

I have only used our local Ford dealer for a warranty recall but I *** THINK *** they are honest from what I have heard locally.

For work I cannot do, we have been using two independent shops. They are both honest but one shop expanded and the shop owner/manger went to the new shop and the service level dropped and we started to have problems. We went to another shop, and while the owner is nice and honest, we frequently have to take the car back to get things done right. :confused3:

Ironically, we are now driving back to the city we used to live in to go to a certain shop. This shop was within walking distance of our city house and specialized in Volvo's though they work on all makes and models. We have had excellent service with them for years so now we are driving to them even though it is a PITA. They have loaner cars we have used and one of them had over 500,000 miles on it but the odometer was broken so nobody really knew how many miles were on that car. It was one of the 240 series which were built to last and last and last.

I don't know why it is so hard to find a good, honest and consistent repair shop. The first shop we went to has the same mechanics and they seem to have had very little to no turn over. The problem was in the office. We have had problems honesty and quality work in both dealers and independent shops. :confused3:

Later,
Dan

 

[timster2]

My son and I went to a track event, more like driving school, with his MINI. The next day there was some oil leaking from under the car so he took it to the dealer under warranty. I get a phone call "hey dad did you hit anything on the way home last nite?" seems that there is a crack in the transmission housing and the dealer is claiming accident damage and quoted him $2500 to replace the transmission. I have been in this business for forty years so I told him wait till I have a look before agreeing to anything. Well I go to the dealer and they have the car up on a lift and the mechanic proudly shows me what he is identifying as accident damage. Well what he is pointing too are casting marks, he is insisting that the little marks made by a grinder, used to clean up the casting for the transmission, are indications of accident damage. Whoa time for a camera, I take several pictures and have him call over the service manager to look at the casting marks and tell me to my face that it is accident damage, Never mind that it is in an area that you could not hit due to the cross member being in the way and there are similar marks elsewhere on the transmission in inaccessible locations.

Well the manager is busy and another mechanic has a look and just walks away. The two guys that looked at the car are standing in the isle several feet away conferencing and we are asked to leave the shop area and go to the waiting room and the manager will see us there. Well the service manager sees us and explains that there is impact damage and they will have to have factory service rep authorize the repair. I explain what the mechanic is misidentifying as impact damage but he is clearly trying to save face and explains that it has to be authorized by the factory engineer before they can proceed.

I ask him when the engineer is coming so I can meet with him and have him explain it to me, but I am informed he does not deal with customers and that it is not allowed! Are you kidding me? Well of course the engineer authorized the repairs. The real problem was a crack in the transmission case at the axle shaft bearing area. Now if I wasn't there to challenge the dealers diagnosis they would have charged my son for a transmission. Last time the car saw that dealership. Never had a problem at the other dealers in the area, everything that needed to be fixed was fixed under warranty no questions.

 

[3930dave]

Good example timster2.

Not much point wasting time trying to distinguish incompetence from malice.

In other threads (and perhaps earlier in this one) are many examples of people getting the run around on warranty work. Screamingly obvious examples where it is warranty (even the dealer agrees), and the car owner is getting told "take it back to the dealer you bought it from".

Always just money. Some dealers push back on warranty as described, because they don't want to accept the factory lower hourly rate they get paid, and they know they can't get away with bs'ing the factory on "extras".

IMO, these are just more examples of why not to buy new, even if you can afford it.

Makes decent dealers like Bird described even more valuable.

Rgds, D.

 

[timster2]

There is also another factor at play here. When you next go to a dealer look at the average age of the technicians in the shop. For most this is there first or second job. Ask to see the "old timers" in the shop. Dealerships are the starting jobs for lots of technicians, decent pay and if your in a good shop factory training. Most people move from shop to shop gaining experience. After they build up a good resume they look for jobs in industry or fleets. Some, those who can't progress from their first or second job, have a tendency to bounce from dealer to dealer. There are some exceptions to this and they are usually the shop supervisors or lead men, however, the average age will be young. There is a severe shortage of good technicians in the industry, kids just don't want to get their hands dirty anymore.

 

[3930dave]

I agree about those factors timster2.

Other economics come into play too. A friend's nephew used to wrench at a Honda dealer in Ontario. Left there mostly because of the pay - if the shop wasn't busy, he'd only get paid minimum provincial wage, only made his bones when there was a car in is bay.

A lot of people don't want to get their hands dirty, and don't like the idea of having to buy a ton of tools on an apprentice's pay. Our govt makes noise about helping in these areas, but last I knew here, mechanics (ie. as an employee, not independent shop owner/operator) can't even deduct their tool cost from their income taxes.

When things slow down, there is a lot of pressure on mechanics to find "problems" on cars in many shops - dealer or elsewhere..... just comes back to money again. I know that is one reason a local wrench went over to selling Mechanics tools; he got tired of being told to scam the customers. IMO, this environment is also one reason many shops want a steady stream of apprentices coming through - it's not just the money factor, many apprentices don't have the experience or backbone to stand up to a supervisor's bs tactics.

Rgds, D.