Car trouble. Dealership scam?

[Gator6x4]

First thing I do when any OBD2 vehicle throws misfire codes for individual cylinders is pull the spark plug on that cylinder.
If it hasn't been changed in 60k or so it gets replaced This has worked on a few rigs i have worked on for friends and family members.
One in particular worked fine for about 3000 miles and started throwing misfire for a different cylinder, at this point changed all remaining plugs -that was over 50 k ago.
All gas 1996 and newer vehicles sold in USA are OBD2 and are capable of identifying an individual cylinder miss. There are codes for random missing also. If the plugs have close to 100k miles i would change them out, it may not take care of the problem but it is not an expensive job to do and who knows maybe it will take care of the problem..


Wooops should have read all the posts first hope the plugs and air filter help...

I agree on changing the spark plugs. But,,,changing the spark plugs on some vehicles today is a very-very-very labor intense task.

On some new V-6 engines, the upper intake has to be removed to get to the rear plugs and coil packs. Now my opinion on that is the engineer who designed that should be somewhere it is very hot with his back broke.

 

[sd455dan]

I agree on changing the spark plugs. But,,,changing the spark plugs on some vehicles today is a very-very-very labor intense task.

On some new V-6 engines, the upper intake has to be removed to get to the rear plugs and coil packs. Now my opinion on that is the engineer who designed that should be somewhere it is very hot with his back broke.

Ohh yeah -had one of those-1988 Pontiac GP had to pull the alternator so i could get my arm around the back of the block, but come to think of it there are a lot of newer transverse mounted engined vehicles that are much much worse... and require the installation by (feel ) method on the rear plugs.

that would include the 2000-2003 MAXIMA v6
Looks like there is a good procedure at MAXIMA.ORG says the biggest hassle is removing and remounting the quad pipe, and about 15 minutes on the front plugs and another hour for the rear 3 !!

 

[94BULLITT]

Ohh yeah -had one of those-1988 Pontiac GP had to pull the alternator so i could get my arm around the back of the block, but come to think of it there are a lot of newer transverse mounted engined vehicles that are much much worse... and require the installation by (feel ) method on the rear plugs.

that would include the 2000-2003 MAXIMA v6
Looks like there is a good procedure at MAXIMA.ORG says the biggest hassle is removing and remounting the quad pipe, and about 15 minutes on the front plugs and another hour for the rear 3 !!

Some GM's you remove a motor mount and replace it with a tool that allows you to twist the engine forward to get to the back plugs.

Sent from my Samsung SPH-L710 using TractorByNet

 

[aczlan]

If he has a smartphone, $10 will get him a Bluetooth OBD-II reader (I have this one: Amazon.com: RioRand (TM) RD9 Bluetooth OBDII Diagnostic Scanner-Android compatible: Automotive which has worked well with my phone and laptop) that will talk to an app (such as Torque for Android or Touch Scan for Windows) and he can read the full codes, search for what they mean online and NOT have to pay through the nose for it, or have someone at AutoZone misread the error code.

Aaron Z

 

[jlawso21]

My wife owns a 2000 I30(Maxima) and we went through the whole thing about replacing one coil pack or two. We had all of them all replaced and it did fix the problem. One of the issues with the coil packs is they are hard to diagnose properly. I don't know beans about it but I have talked with two mechanics and they say that diagnosing which of the coil packs is bad is the problem. One of the guys had an expensive diagnostic tool and he told me that a very good diagnostic tool will help.

Also, your son should join this forum

2000 Max replace coil packs or just spark plug boots - Maxima Forums

You can get a lot of info here if you are interested in doing some of the work yourself. Also, you can buy the coil packs much cheaper than the dealer if you shop around. Although I had the mechanic replace the ones on the I30, I replaced them myself on a 2003 Envoy, and bought the coil packs from a salvage yard in California.

I did buy a diagnostic tool from Amazon for $25 and it has saved me at least $1000 in mechanics bills.

ScanTool 423001 ElmScan 5 Compact OBD-II Scan Tool and OBDwiz Diagnostic Software : Amazon.com : Automotive

Good luck

 

[N80]

He has been reading in some of the Maxima forums. But, he knows very little about cars.

It frustrates the heck out of me how hard it is to take care of simple problems in modern cars. Even in my 1990 Nissan Pathfinder.......by far the best vehicle I have ever owned......the rear driver's side spark plug was almost impossible to replace without removing major hardware. As mentioned above, the first five took about 10 minutes. The last one took me an hour and a trip to the autoparts store for additional tools!

 

[hawkeye08]

My daughter's 2004 Impala had intermittent CEL that were misfire (from autozone checking), even after we did the plugs and air filter. I owed her a cooling system flush so when she did not need her car for a few days, did the cooling system flush, filter and fluid on trans, and while I was doing the rest, went ahead and replaced both O2 sensors. She has been getting better mileage than ever and no more CELs. She knows more about cars than her husband.

If the O2 sensor(s) have never been changed, I would not overlook them. I don't know what they recommend now, but a number of years ago, it was recommended to change them every 30-50,000 miles...

(and I bought the special O2 socket from O'Reilly's for $10 to make it easy)

 

[Egon]

There may be frustration when working on the modern electronic controlled car but do remember that many parts far outlast the components of yesterday's simple cars.


For those with limited knowledge it may be best to find a competent shop and rely on them!. Usually costs less in the long run.:thumbsup:

 

[dmccarty]

If he has a smartphone, $10 will get him a Bluetooth OBD-II reader (I have this one: Amazon.com: RioRand (TM) RD9 Bluetooth OBDII Diagnostic Scanner-Android compatible: Automotive which has worked well with my phone and laptop) that will talk to an app (such as Torque for Android or Touch Scan for Windows) and he can read the full codes, search for what they mean online and NOT have to pay through the nose for it, or have someone at AutoZone misread the error code.

Aaron Z

That was danged helpful. I just put that doo dad in my wish list. :thumbsup:

Thanks,
Dan

 

[aczlan]

That was danged helpful. I just put that doo dad in my wish list. :thumbsup:

You are welcome. Dad used to have a USB version of that scanner, but dealing with cords in the car (and keeping from breaking the USB port on the laptop) is a pain. Bluetooth is MUCH more convenient.

Aaron Z

 

[94BULLITT]

I bought one of those off ebay. It did not work. I have heard the PLX kiwi is good.

 

[Midniteoyl]

He has been reading in some of the Maxima forums. But, he knows very little about cars.

It frustrates the heck out of me how hard it is to take care of simple problems in modern cars. Even in my 1990 Nissan Pathfinder.......by far the best vehicle I have ever owned......the rear driver's side spark plug was almost impossible to replace without removing major hardware. As mentioned above, the first five took about 10 minutes. The last one took me an hour and a trip to the autoparts store for additional tools!

Had one plug in a Chevy Monza with a Buick V6 that was never changed until I rebuilt the motor

 

[dmccarty]

I bought one of those off ebay. It did not work. I have heard the PLX kiwi is good.

There were some complaints on Amazon about the device not working but it seems that it might be some copy cats products for sale. The Amazon page mentions a certain ID to verify. Also, people were having problem using the device due to the instructions or lack there of.

Later,
Dan

 

[JimRB]

When I was a child you changed points, condenser and plugs about every 10,000 miles. Some cars you had to adjust the brakes the same time you did an oil change. Some of those plugs were not supper easy to get to but certainly never required hours to change.

 

[bcp]

There may be frustration when working on the modern electronic controlled car but do remember that many parts far outlast the components of yesterday's simple cars.

1000 mile oil changes, points, condensers, inner tubes, vacuum wipers, manual choke, step on the starter, etc.

The only thing I miss is the headlight dimmer switch on the floor. And real bumpers.

Bruce

 

[kenmac]

N80,Funny you mention car dealerships and their honestly.. I talked to my MIL last week. She said that when she applys the brakes that she can feel the car shake. I told her that she probably needed to have the rotors replaced. Long story short.. I order the parts and replaced the rotors for her today. When I took off the front tires, I noticed that the tread on the inside of the tires had wear. I asked my MIL if she wanted me to rotate the tires while replacing the front brakes and rotors. She said no that the Toyota dealership had just balanced &rotated the tires last month when she took in in for some service they offered. I told her that from the looks of the tread wear on the back tires vs the front tires, the dealership hadn't rotated the tires. After installing new front brake pads & rotors, I decides to check other things under the hood. When I opened the hood I couldn't help but to notice how much acid the battery had on it. I asked my MIL if the dealership checked under the hood when she had it in for service and she said they checked the battery, belt. and hoses. I showed her the acid all over the battery and asked her if they mentioned anything about it. She said they had not. I cleaned off the + batt. post and the hold down clamp. She said she was going to call the dealership and file a complaint with the owner as she has purchased several new vehicles from them. I told here for any future maintenance or, repairs to bring the car to me. This stealership has been charging her for work they never performed

 

[murphy1244]

N80,Funny you mention car dealerships and their honestly.. I talked to my MIL last week. She said that when she applys the brakes that she can feel the car shake. I told her that she probably needed to have the rotors replaced. Long story short.. I order the parts and replaced the rotors for her today. When I took off the front tires, I noticed that the tread on the inside of the tires had wear. I asked my MIL if she wanted me to rotate the tires while replacing the front brakes and rotors. She said no that the Toyota dealership had just balanced &rotated the tires last month when she took in in for some service they offered. I told her that from the looks of the tread wear on the back tires vs the front tires, the dealership hadn't rotated the tires. After installing new front brake pads & rotors, I decides to check other things under the hood. When I opened the hood I couldn't help but to notice how much acid the battery had on it. I asked my MIL if the dealership checked under the hood when she had it in for service and she said they checked the battery, belt. and hoses. I showed her the acid all over the battery and asked her if they mentioned anything about it. She said they had not. I cleaned off the + batt. post and the hold down clamp. She said she was going to call the dealership and file a complaint with the owner as she has purchased several new vehicles from them. I told here for any future maintenance or, repairs to bring the car to me. This stealership has been charging her for work they never performed

Your a Good man to do that. Good Job!

 

[MotorSeven]

I kinda thought the dealership scams of old were all pretty much gone since I have not had an issue in over 10 years. But, recently we took the wife's Sorrento into Rusty Wallace Kia in Morristown(bought it there new) for some minor re-calls(brake light switch & auto window down reprogram). While waiting, the service "guy" comes out and tells me that in order to maintain my 100K mile warranty I must have the transmission serviced and the injectors cleaned.....$90 for the tranny and $70 for the injectors. The Sorento had 40K on it and he said the tranny was due at 30K. I said, well...ok go ahead, but after he left I remembered reading in the owners manual that the transmission was a "non serviceable item".

So I waited another hour and when they brought it around I pulled out the Owners Manual. Under normal driving conditions there is no service schedule for the tranny, but for extreme or heavy duty(steep hills, gravel roads, etc) they do recommend fluid/fliter/flush at 60K). I looked all over the book and no mention of the "injector cleaning". So I march in and hand the guy the Owners Manual, and tell him if he can find the service requirements for those two things then I would pay for them, if not they just did them for free.

This is where it gets funny and frustrating at the same time. He starts reading the manual....tic toc tic toc.....5 min later, he closes the book, slides it back across the counter, picks up my paperwork and a pen and says, "OK, the charge for these two services is $176, are you paying with cash check or credit?" Now, I am thinking I am on some kinda hidden camera show where they continue to poke you with a long stick until you get pissed off and then everyone laughs. I look at the guy and say, "Did you not hear a word I said?.....I am not paying for any service you performed unless it is written in Black & White in the owners manual!" His response was...."I'll have to call the service Manager over here to talk to you".....I say "perfect". 15 min later the SM shows up and gives me a line about the tranny fluid being dark which is why they recommended changing it. This is interesting since the tranny DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A DIP STICK. And, he goes on that Ethanol is causing injector problems which is why the injector cleaner. Hmmmm, I know all about corn juice, so I say, "So you dumped a bottle of injector cleaner in the fuel tank?"......Well yes, but the Tech also hooks up a hose tot he injectors and runs a cleaner directly through them."

I say this is all nice, but according to the Owners Manual service is not due on the tranny until 60K. I'll even agree that in our area that we drive in extreme conditions and that service at 60K is a good thing. But, you serviced it at 40K so I am not paying for this. Also, there is zero recommendations on injector cleaning, and I am quite certain that in 2011 when Kia built this veh, Kia knew all about Ethanol, sooooo I am not paying for that either. After 20 min of this back and forth, he gave in and I drove off. 1/2 hour later the "CHECK ENGINE" light comes on, then the tranny starts shifting very hard. Of course they were closed by now, so I had to drive back the next day(1.5hr round trip) only to have them tell me some temp sensor on the tranny is malfunctioning and they have to order the part. Hmmmm, in 40K our Sorento has never thrown a check engine light and never shifted hard.....needless to say we will be taking it to a different stealership in the future.

I mean, really, why the games, the lies, the fraud? I guess some dealerships don't make a dime on any new car and all warranty service must cost them money since they always seem to find a way to get into your pocket as soon as you pull into the service area. I think we as consumers have put up with too many shenanigans which a few fraud charges & arrests could take care of very quickly.

 

[kenmac]

Yep, no dealerships for me.. 1995 was the last new vehicle purchase for me

 

[3930dave]

The trajectory doesn't look good. CBC aired a show recently, on cheating in schools.

CBC - Doc Zone - Episode - Faking the Grade

(Vid is likely only viewable in Canada, unless you make other arrangements).

I don't agree with it, but mostly we are where we are due to constructing a society where only one thing matters. $ .

The nearest Honda dealer to here has a horrendous reputation. Most of the "new" dealers nearby aren't much better. When I say "new", meaning the new monster expanded dealerships that have been forced into the marketplace. Again, not saying it is right, but the dealership owner may be looking at it as "Well, just had to shell out 8 Mil to stay in this game, I better shake down every customer for every last cent I can".



I started a thread on Elio motors, and their 84mpg car. I'm hoping they get this low cost USA built offering rolling out of the factory next year. As this thread has demonstrated, there is also a desperate need for low-cost and reliable dealer service - Elio pretty much has a clean slate to work with there too.

Rgds, D.