Car trouble. Dealership scam?

   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #41  
I read the Elio thread. Very interesting. I hope they get it off the ground. I would worry about getting parts for the car, engine , etc,
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #42  
Yep, should have seen what the "free" first oil change cost, because my wife took it in.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #43  
I read the Elio thread. Very interesting. I hope they get it off the ground. I would worry about getting parts for the car, engine , etc,

Natural concerns Kenmac. The founder seems like an industry veteran, so he should understand logistics and using off-the-shelf parts to keep costs down.

Given the state of the industry (often only a couple of players in a given parts sector, and the "established" major car companies obsoleting many parts quickly) if I was presently in a high mileage commuting mode, I'd probably roll the dice on this Elio early. If I could get even 5 years out of it, it would be making me money.

I like what Elio is doing. If my cash flow was a little healthier, I'd get in the queue now, just because.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #44  
I bought a new vehicle for the wife earlier this year from one of the areas big dealers, one who runs all kinds of TV commercials about their great prices and great services. When we were buying it, the salesman mentioned that the first oil and filter change was free. When I told him that I seriously doubted that I'd be making any 94 mile round trips to get oil changed, that I'd rather do it myself, he said that the dealership didn't recommend that owners do their own oil changes, too many chances of something being done wrong! I immediately stood up and told my wife that we needed to be looking at other makes of SUVs, since I wouldn't own a car that I couldn't do an oil change on. The salesman then conceded that since I'd probably had a lot of "experience" doing that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have any problems, but that some people did.

Warranty service in the manual calls for oil and filter changes every 7500 miles. The dealership keeps sending me emails that they (dealership) recommends doing it every 3000 miles! This is full synthetic oil and they probably have a lot of customers that pay those big bucks every 3000K just because the dealership recommends it.

Unless it's a warranty issue, I don't think they'll see my wife's SUV again.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #45  
I bought a new vehicle for the wife earlier this year from one of the areas big dealers, one who runs all kinds of TV commercials about their great prices and great services. When we were buying it, the salesman mentioned that the first oil and filter change was free. When I told him that I seriously doubted that I'd be making any 94 mile round trips to get oil changed, that I'd rather do it myself, he said that the dealership didn't recommend that owners do their own oil changes, too many chances of something being done wrong! I immediately stood up and told my wife that we needed to be looking at other makes of SUVs, since I wouldn't own a car that I couldn't do an oil change on. The salesman then conceded that since I'd probably had a lot of "experience" doing that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have any problems, but that some people did.

Warranty service in the manual calls for oil and filter changes every 7500 miles. The dealership keeps sending me emails that they (dealership) recommends doing it every 3000 miles! This is full synthetic oil and they probably have a lot of customers that pay those big bucks every 3000K just because the dealership recommends it.

Unless it's a warranty issue, I don't think they'll see my wife's SUV again.

Car companies love to crow about how green they are - that being one reason to push out their spec on Recommended oil changes.

If you can find an Environmental contact on the corporate web site, I'd forward the dealership 3k email to them.

Gotta love that "You're too stupid to do oil changes" kind of marketing !

Rgds, D.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #46  
I had an Acura that had something very similar happen. It started running rough and the CEL came on. It was saying missfire in one of the cylinders. The dealer said it was most likely a bad coil pack. After replacing it it ran fine for a few days and did it again. The dealer said it was a different coil and then went into the whole "they get old and the coating on the wires starts to break down from the heat. When they are cold they are fine so it makes it real hard to detect." I figured since I could do the work I would replace it myself.

Before I did I happened to be talking with a gas station owner who told me a little secret. He said that some stations pour things like old engine oil into the gas tanks at night after hours. He went on to tell me that an underground tank could be 10,000 gallons so 100 gallons of engine oil split between the three tanks (4 if the sell diesel) isn't noticeable most of the time. Yet for the owner 100 gallons of used oil sold at retail price could put up to $400 unreported cash into their pocket. The problem is sometimes it doesn't mix and a car might get a much higher ratio of oil to fuel.

Because modern fuel injection systems continuously pump the fuel to the injectors any extra goes through a regulator so the injectors always see the same pressure and the rest of the gas gets returned to the tank. The bad stuff in the tank gets pumped to one injector where it causes a miss fire while the rest gets sent back to the tank. Then after some time the bad stuff gets pumped back to the injectors and you get another misfire. When the mechanic looks at it he can't find an issue so he replaces something to make it sound like he did something. Spark plugs, coil pack, and O2 sensors are usually replaced.

So I decided not to do or replace anything. After about 15 minutes of driving it started running rough. I just put my foot down, the CEL came on, and in a minute or two it started running better. 15 or 20 minutes later the same thing happened but not as bad. After about 5 times doing that it would just run a little rough but not bad at all. After that I made sure not to get gas at stations that also service vehicles. Now I use gas only or quickie mart type places that do large volumes and have name brand companies for gas suppliers. I drove that car for another 5 years before selling it, never had an issue.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #47  
The Globe and Mail (Canada) a long time ago (20 years, give or take) had a pretty extensive article talking about hazardous waste being dumped into road fuel. As in big scale money. If you remember back then, there was still some real "reporting" going on, instead of the infotainement fluff of today....

Heavy stuff (oils) would go into diesel, lighter stuff (ex. dry cleaning fluid) into gasoline. Govt regs have probably tightened up somewhat since then, but I'd have trouble believing that this practice has totally disappeared. Present economic factors might actually mean that there is more of this dumping going on today, than a few decades back.

Random engine codes people get today may be nothing more than collateral damage from somebody's Cayman Island account getting a top up.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #48  
The Globe and Mail (Canada) a long time ago (20 years, give or take) had a pretty extensive article talking about hazardous waste being dumped into road fuel. As in big scale money. If you remember back then, there was still some real "reporting" going on, instead of the infotainement fluff of today....

Heavy stuff (oils) would go into diesel, lighter stuff (ex. dry cleaning fluid) into gasoline. Govt regs have probably tightened up somewhat since then, but I'd have trouble believing that this practice has totally disappeared. Present economic factors might actually mean that there is more of this dumping going on today, than a few decades back.

Random engine codes people get today may be nothing more than collateral damage from somebody's Cayman Island account getting a top up.

Rgds, D.

Now wait just a minute, you mean to tell me we're not supposed to get E-10 gasoline, the E for extra enhancements? and the ten for ten reasons not to buy this station/ brand of gas?!:confused2::eek::laughing:
I can't believe it, companies that were split by anti-trust laws and have now found a way to remerge as one of the world's largest monopolies are slamming it to the consumer with the help of the 'little guy' at the local jip mart looking the other way, while the gas mafia fills the underground tanks with who knows what from who knows where?
Well if they start using radioactive waste then maybe we can turn off the headlights at night!:confused3:
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #49  
Car companies love to crow about how green they are - that being one reason to push out their spec on Recommended oil changes.

If you can find an Environmental contact on the corporate web site, I'd forward the dealership 3k email to them.

Gotta love that "You're too stupid to do oil changes" kind of marketing !

Rgds, D.

Don't laugh. I walked around the gas pump one night in Georgia and there stood a well dressed individual trying to get the radiator cap off to add oil because his check the engine oil light was on.

Plus I personally know individuals who do not know how to check the air pressure in a tire.

In Gatlinburg TN one morning after being entertained for several minutes watching an individual trying to figure out how to put fuel in a new Cadillac, I showed him how to open the fuel door to allow access to the gas cap.

I guess he was lucky they gave him a full tank of gas when he purchased the vehicle the day before.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #50  
Warranty service in the manual calls for oil and filter changes every 7500 miles. The dealership keeps sending me emails that they (dealership) recommends doing it every 3000 miles! This is full synthetic oil and they probably have a lot of customers that pay those big bucks every 3000K just because the dealership recommends it.

Of course I can remember when we changed oil every 1,000 miles, but then later changed to 3,000 miles. And when the manufacturers started calling for oil changes at 5,000 miles in "normal" conditions, but 3,000 in "severe" or "special" conditions such as excessive, heat, dust, trailer towing, idling, I know most, if not all, dealerships told customers that they considered driving in the Dallas heat and air pollution was "severe" conditions and recommended the 3,000 mile oil changes. And I did that for many years.

However, the Ford dealer that currently services both of my vehicles made a point of telling me they'd do it any time I wanted it done, but that they recommend going 5,000 miles, as the manuals for my older vehicles specify.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #51  
Don't laugh. I walked around the gas pump one night in Georgia and there stood a well dressed individual trying to get the radiator cap off to add oil because his check the engine oil light was on.

Plus I personally know individuals who do not know how to check the air pressure in a tire.

In Gatlinburg TN one morning after being entertained for several minutes watching an individual trying to figure out how to put fuel in a new Cadillac, I showed him how to open the fuel door to allow access to the gas cap.

I guess he was lucky they gave him a full tank of gas when he purchased the vehicle the day before.

Hear ya Gator24 !

Yes, there is an every growing segment of the population that has no clue how anything works - most of them are content, and prefer, to remain that way - and they are well loved by the manufacturers.

A relatively late model Civic was getting a motor swapped early this year at my buddy's shop. Coming into the Winter, the owner had been topping up the radiator with water, due to some kind of minor leak. Cracked the original block doing that - who'd have thought it gets cold in Canada in the Winter ? :confused3:

Hey, at least he saved about $25 on Prestone !

My comment was mostly from a "know your customer" standpoint - a smart salesperson should be able to distinguish the mechanically savvy customer from the appliance driver type.

Like Gunny, most gearheads would be somewhat inclined to take their business elsewhere, hearing that kind of noise in a showroom.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #52  
Of course I can remember when we changed oil every 1,000 miles, but then later changed to 3,000 miles. And when the manufacturers started calling for oil changes at 5,000 miles in "normal" conditions, but 3,000 in "severe" or "special" conditions such as excessive, heat, dust, trailer towing, idling, I know most, if not all, dealerships told customers that they considered driving in the Dallas heat and air pollution was "severe" conditions and recommended the 3,000 mile oil changes. And I did that for many years.

However, the Ford dealer that currently services both of my vehicles made a point of telling me they'd do it any time I wanted it done, but that they recommend going 5,000 miles, as the manuals for my older vehicles specify.

I've been out jogging in Dallas in July - even at 5:30am it was a bit "warm". :) At least you never get water condensation in the crankcase, like short cycle driving creates in the Winter up here !

You raise an excellent point about Severe Service Bird. The unspoken assumption in my recent post was that Gunny understands what constitutes Severe Service - but the reality is that most of the driving public does not understand Severe Service categories, or pays any attention to them.

A good example is Honda Civics, circa 2000. USA oil change interval is roughly 15k km, while Canada is automatically considered Severe Service and is 6k km.

Many vehicles get their oil changed way too late, so I'd sooner see changes done early - just not by a dealer that is scamming. I can't really understand the long term business rationale - scam people for a few bucks on an oil change, then expect to keep selling $20k+++ vehicles to the same people ?

Rgds, D.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #53  
I change my oil and filter and rotate my tires. Keep a log in a Excel file. I rely on the "Oil Life Index" in the vehicle to provide an indication on the service life of the oil.

Changing the oil and filter in the latest vehicle purchase left me with a nasty burn on my arm when I bumped the converter. The crankcase oil drain plug is also positioned so you have to use a piece of cardboard to deflect the oil into the drain pan. Without the cardboard deflector oil goes everywhere. A cardboard deflector also has to be used for filter removal. So if you have a new XTS and change your on oil and filter be prepared for an experience.

My experience with dealer service departments for oil changes and tire rotations has not been good.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #54  
I change my oil and filter and rotate my tires. Keep a log in a Excel file. I rely on the "Oil Life Index" in the vehicle to provide an indication on the service life of the oil.

Changing the oil and filter in the latest vehicle purchase left me with a nasty burn on my arm when I bumped the converter. The crankcase oil drain plug is also positioned so you have to use a piece of cardboard to deflect the oil into the drain pan. Without the cardboard deflector oil goes everywhere. A cardboard deflector also has to be used for filter removal. So if you have a new XTS and change your on oil and filter be prepared for an experience.

My experience with dealer service departments for oil changes and tire rotations has not been good.



Use this......

PIG® Form-A-Funnel® Flexible Draining Tool - 6.5" x 14.5" : Amazon.com : Automotive

.....and this......

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-5911-Drai...1378946098&sr=8-10&keywords=Otc+Oil+plug+tool
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #55  
Of course I can remember when we changed oil every 1,000 miles, but then later changed to 3,000 miles. And when the manufacturers started calling for oil changes at 5,000 miles in "normal" conditions, but 3,000 in "severe" or "special" conditions such as excessive, heat, dust, trailer towing, idling, I know most, if not all, dealerships told customers that they considered driving in the Dallas heat and air pollution was "severe" conditions and recommended the 3,000 mile oil changes. And I did that for many years.

However, the Ford dealer that currently services both of my vehicles made a point of telling me they'd do it any time I wanted it done, but that they recommend going 5,000 miles, as the manuals for my older vehicles specify.

Bird, I purchased a 1974 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with a 454 cubic inch engine. That thing would use a quart of oil every one thousand miles. I complained to General Motors and they told me they consider a quart of oil every 700 miles to be acceptable.

A friend who owed a garage advised me to change filters every 3500 miles and continue driving since I was changing the oil while I drove it.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #56  
Bird, I purchased a 1974 Chevrolet Caprice Classic with a 454 cubic inch engine. That thing would use a quart of oil every one thousand miles. I complained to General Motors and they told me they consider a quart of oil every 700 miles to be acceptable.

A friend who owed a garage advised me to change filters every 3500 miles and continue driving since I was changing the oil while I drove it.

Yep, I'm old enough to remember when very few cars could go a thousand miles without adding any oil. Those were the days when we usually checked the oil every time we put gas in them.:laughing: And besides the oil that got burned, it was common to have little leaks so you had oil spots on the ground or pavement where you parked. And now, even with 100k miles on it, there's no oil on the garage floor under my Ford Ranger and as with most folks, I'm guilty of almost never raising the hood to check the oil between oil changes at 5,000 miles.
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #57  
I kinda thought the dealership scams of old were all pretty much gone since I have not had an issue in over 10 years. But, recently we took the wife's Sorrento into Rusty Wallace Kia in Morristown(bought it there new) for some minor re-calls(brake light switch & auto window down reprogram). While waiting, the service "guy" comes out and tells me that in order to maintain my 100K mile warranty I must have the transmission serviced and the injectors cleaned.....$90 for the tranny and $70 for the injectors. The Sorento had 40K on it and he said the tranny was due at 30K. I said, well...ok go ahead, but after he left I remembered reading in the owners manual that the transmission was a "non serviceable item".

So I waited another hour and when they brought it around I pulled out the Owners Manual. Under normal driving conditions there is no service schedule for the tranny, but for extreme or heavy duty(steep hills, gravel roads, etc) they do recommend fluid/fliter/flush at 60K). I looked all over the book and no mention of the "injector cleaning". So I march in and hand the guy the Owners Manual, and tell him if he can find the service requirements for those two things then I would pay for them, if not they just did them for free.

This is where it gets funny and frustrating at the same time. He starts reading the manual....tic toc tic toc.....5 min later, he closes the book, slides it back across the counter, picks up my paperwork and a pen and says, "OK, the charge for these two services is $176, are you paying with cash check or credit?" Now, I am thinking I am on some kinda hidden camera show where they continue to poke you with a long stick until you get pissed off and then everyone laughs. I look at the guy and say, "Did you not hear a word I said?.....I am not paying for any service you performed unless it is written in Black & White in the owners manual!" His response was...."I'll have to call the service Manager over here to talk to you".....I say "perfect". 15 min later the SM shows up and gives me a line about the tranny fluid being dark which is why they recommended changing it. This is interesting since the tranny DOES NOT EVEN HAVE A DIP STICK. And, he goes on that Ethanol is causing injector problems which is why the injector cleaner. Hmmmm, I know all about corn juice, so I say, "So you dumped a bottle of injector cleaner in the fuel tank?"......Well yes, but the Tech also hooks up a hose tot he injectors and runs a cleaner directly through them."

I say this is all nice, but according to the Owners Manual service is not due on the tranny until 60K. I'll even agree that in our area that we drive in extreme conditions and that service at 60K is a good thing. But, you serviced it at 40K so I am not paying for this. Also, there is zero recommendations on injector cleaning, and I am quite certain that in 2011 when Kia built this veh, Kia knew all about Ethanol, sooooo I am not paying for that either. After 20 min of this back and forth, he gave in and I drove off. 1/2 hour later the "CHECK ENGINE" light comes on, then the tranny starts shifting very hard. Of course they were closed by now, so I had to drive back the next day(1.5hr round trip) only to have them tell me some temp sensor on the tranny is malfunctioning and they have to order the part. Hmmmm, in 40K our Sorento has never thrown a check engine light and never shifted hard.....needless to say we will be taking it to a different stealership in the future.

I mean, really, why the games, the lies, the fraud? I guess some dealerships don't make a dime on any new car and all warranty service must cost them money since they always seem to find a way to get into your pocket as soon as you pull into the service area. I think we as consumers have put up with too many shenanigans which a few fraud charges & arrests could take care of very quickly.

Same thing here with my Mitsubishi. I take it in for some warranty work and the dude comes out and says it is time for my time belt service at 65k. I tell him I would think about it and get back to him. Look it up at home in the manual and it calls for it at 105k. Went to pick it up the next day and show it to him in black and white 105k. He states that they always do them early and even though I have a 100k warranty if the belt breaks due to wear and tear and not a defect they have the right to decline warranty. I then ask If the belt calls for service at 105k and it breaks before that , would it be a defect. He just shrugged and came back with the wear and tear thing. I wrote a letter to Mitsu and got it in writing that the belt was in fact covered under my 100k warranty and any issues before 100k would be covered due the service replacement of 105k .
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #58  
Of course I can remember when we changed oil every 1,000 miles, but then later changed to 3,000 miles. And when the manufacturers started calling for oil changes at 5,000 miles in "normal" conditions, but 3,000 in "severe" or "special" conditions such as excessive, heat, dust, trailer towing, idling, I know most, if not all, dealerships told customers that they considered driving in the Dallas heat and air pollution was "severe" conditions and recommended the 3,000 mile oil changes. And I did that for many years.

However, the Ford dealer that currently services both of my vehicles made a point of telling me they'd do it any time I wanted it done, but that they recommend going 5,000 miles, as the manuals for my older vehicles specify.

Ya, the dealerships will tell you to do the 3k miles due to 'traffic' being 'severe conditions' when you are paying. When its part of a 'free oil change for life' deal, its 7,500 miles or even 15k miles if using synthetic. :mad:
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #59  
I bought a new vehicle for the wife earlier this year from one of the areas big dealers, one who runs all kinds of TV commercials about their great prices and great services. When we were buying it, the salesman mentioned that the first oil and filter change was free. When I told him that I seriously doubted that I'd be making any 94 mile round trips to get oil changed, that I'd rather do it myself, he said that the dealership didn't recommend that owners do their own oil changes, too many chances of something being done wrong! I immediately stood up and told my wife that we needed to be looking at other makes of SUVs, since I wouldn't own a car that I couldn't do an oil change on. The salesman then conceded that since I'd probably had a lot of "experience" doing that kind of stuff, I wouldn't have any problems, but that some people did.

Even the dealer can SCREW UP! my wife took her brand new '13 Charger in to the local dealer for an oil change. they did their thing and all was well for a day and a half. the next morning I get a call from her telling me her CEL is on. I told her to go ahead and drive to work and schedule an appt @ the dealer to have it looked at. But 5 minutes later, I get another call from her telling me that her car stopped entirely! when I get to her and the car , I find oil ALL OVER the front/top of the motor(where the oil filter cannister is)and NO oil on the dipstick! she had called the dealership that did the OC and they sent someone out to her. the brought a new filter and more oil to fill it up(this was NEVER told to them!) I watched when they changed the filter and there WAS NO ORING ON THE FILTER CANNISTER LID!

they will NOT touch it again!
 
   / Car trouble. Dealership scam? #60  
My soon to be wife got shafted from a stealership. The service manager tried to tel me that I jacked under the oil pan causing a leak. the oil pan was still Pontiac engine baby carriage blue and unscratched, Turned out to be a leaking timing chain cover! $90.00 later it was fixed by a local shop. They charged her $129.00 for a radio...a $20.00 Kmart model. For the past 33 years we've bought mostly used and tag teamed the salesperson. DW has become good at it, often getting the price down another $1,000 or so!
 

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