Building A small pull pan Type scraper

[bobodu]

That'd be a "Tumblebug"..doesn't need hydraulics.Just pull the rope or lever and it rolls foreward to dump! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[SPIKER]

the company I used to work for has built a few of these, similar to what you shown, only with some modern revisions, all self designed by myself & the owner. usually only 2 wheeled ones as that applied more force to the traction tires of the tractor, but we did build one or two 4 wheeled ones too. front dumping and self leveling on trunion style mounts using one and two hyd control curcuits to lift/dump woth front gates too...

http://www.bright.net/~pfryman/new this is the OLD site they upgraded a while back and did not post any of th eold pan photos that I think are still there? may be a dead link any lnoger?

anyhow these would slice THROUGH many rocks as they had hardened cutting edges which were/are replaceable. similar to those on many box blades ect.

mark M

 

[JoeinTX]

@Gene and bobodu

Your "tumblebug" is the exact same thing as my "Fresno". I don't know who built the one picutured, but mine is near on 60 years old and works fine with oiling/greasing. Adding a small subrame with tires and hydraulics has crossed my mind.

In short, earthface, while I like these devices, the buying public at large seems to have moved on to either: a-the box blade for small tractors. b-the drag box blade for medium tractors combined with FEL. c-no real desire to use 100-200hp tractors for earthmoving in lieu of dozers, etc.

We see a resurgence in the use of the 4wd/scraper combination, but that's really all.

 

[Renze]

I think the same way, i love playing around in the dirt, and my brother can use one for small custom jobs at farms, to make the hobby break even. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Renze]

Earthface what's the weight of your MF 35 ? If i remember correctly they would weigh about 1500 kg ??
2,5 cubic yards would be about 2 cubic meter, weighing about 3000 kg in average moisture conditions...
That means, with a scraper you can pull twice the weight of the tractor, which would mean 6,5 ton or 4.3 cubic meters behind my Zetor 5245 ???

Is this assumption correct ? if so, i never knew scrapers would be so efficient, i thought a tractor wouldnt scrape more than roughly a 20% over its own weight...

A 4.3 cubic meter dirt pan behind my 5245 or 6718 (both are already payed for and sitting in the yard anyways) would really make a very cost effective earthmover for the small contract jobs...

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( the company I used to work for has built a few of these, similar to what you shown, only with some modern revisions, all self designed by myself & the owner. usually only 2 wheeled ones as that applied more force to the traction tires of the tractor, but we did build one or two 4 wheeled ones too. front dumping and self leveling on trunion style mounts using one and two hyd control curcuits to lift/dump woth front gates too...

http://www.bright.net/~pfryman/new this is the OLD site they upgraded a while back and did not post any of th eold pan photos that I think are still there? may be a dead link any lnoger?

anyhow these would slice THROUGH many rocks as they had hardened cutting edges which were/are replaceable. similar to those on many box blades ect.

mark M )</font>

Mark,

There's pictures of a 2-wheel pan at the bottom of this page:

Click here

 

[Taylortractornut]

Id be interested in buying a set of plans from you for both scrapers. My brother and I both are in the earth moving and landscaping business and build stuff like that to. Henry Made some similar scrapers to the 2 wheeled one for Allis Chalmers crawlers and also IHC crawlers. I think Prime is the scraper thats made today that has the similar design to your 4 wheeled one. Ill esnd you a private message later on buying some plans.

 

[earthface]

Taylortractornut

Do you have any pictures to what you have built and hint to the size? What size would you envesion as to what you would build and the size of tractor you would be using? Maybe somthing of the use you may intend for them. The scrapers I have at current do not need a crawler to pull them in average conditions.
The 2 wheeled unit may even be pulled by a skid steer loader. The beauty of these machines they do not have any tendency to dig holes I can skin as little as 1" off the ground in a scrape run with very precision of depth of cut control makes for good land leveling. With spot on dumping.

 

[Taylortractornut]

Ive only built a small 10 to 12 cubic foot front dumper Henry was the name of a large company in Topeka Kansas. They made 3 to 5 yard 2 wheel rear dumpers and then later made som 1 and 2 yard rear dumpers for tractors. Garwood the company that made blades buckets and scrapers for Allis Chalmers also made a few 2 wheeled scrapers that rear dumped. They went from 3,5,68,a,nd 11 yards. I like the light wieght design of your machines. Im copying an old front dump scraper from the 50's called a Shawnee to do some work where I work at that I cant get the 12 yard scraper into.

 

[Hib]

I seen those 'Tumblebugs' pulled behind old Fergusons/Fords at an antique tractor show several years ago and they seemed to work surprisingly well. Although that was on some light soil.

 

[JoeinTX]

Yes, HIB, it is a little surprising what can be accomplished with these smaller tractors and a decent dirt-pan. I only wish that I had taken some pics of my tank project to show this, but it was nearly 10 years ago and well before TBN... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif\

The normal ag tractor, with the right set-up, can do wonders in dirt moving and fire prevention. Three cubic yards of earth are a huge amount per pass for the "little-guy" and the precision you can accomplish is noteworthy.

 

[Renze]

The pan on the link you posted, is 7 yard and cuts 7 foot wide.. That's only 2.1 meter, slightly wider than the tractor.

To level pastures after ploughing, in low areas where a level field is essential to grow anything in the wet and low fields here in the Netherlands, we would allways run duals to prevent compaction on fresh ploughed soil, and to get the power to the ground. A tractor on 16.9-30 duals would be 3 meters wide, which is 10 foot. So a 10 foot cut is preferred on my pan. A wider pan also makes it easier to to the fine levelling.

What would the effect of a 2 vs a 3 meter wide cut be on the traction requirement ? does anyone have some experience with width of cut ? off course in ploughed fields it wouldn't matter all that much, but if it is used in hard soil for driveway base digging ?

 

[earthface]

The ease of loading is all about extremes and balanced conditions. Meaning extremes of soil conditions and balance of traction on the loading.
From my experience with these machines what I have found the most difficult of soil to load is soft tilled soil and soil that is dead on dry and is powdery. These conditions offer the lowest traction and push in front of the blade and will not heap into the scraper bowl. The best condition is the medium to hard compacted soil with some moisture but not wet enough to reduce the traction enough to make any difference. With either of these machines one at a 4ft cut the other at a 5 ft cut I do not have a power problem with 38 HP. I do at times have a traction problem. Some difference in that could be made 1. adding weight, my MF 35 is not weighted. 2. by replacing the rear tires mine are near only 30% tread. I would say that 4 WD would be a big plus.
The scraper is only one aspect of the land leveling scheme and should not be considered a finale finish. To do that a person may/will have to finish the perfect finish with a machine called a land plane. Basically a long blade on a long frame with a ratio of 10 ft blade to 24 ft frame.
I do find that sod or root mass hamper loading when in softer soil, as they tend to wrap the blade and push rather than load.
Now I find some issues that may be improved on both these machines but they are a pretty direct hit on a balance of engineering of the day. Both were designed and built more than 60 years ago, and would be hard pressed to have the performance matched by most any machine that could be designed today without some sort of revolutionary new technology. I would find that a quite a feat in a time when it was all developed by trial and sketches in a notebook. My thinking is when it works that well, dont mess with it.


KentT Note: That if the aspect ratios of these small machines were maintained to a 10 ft cut scraper your box would hold about 13 cu yds I would consider that a big machine, there are plenty of those size of good scrapers on the market new or used today. I am only looking at the void in the market of the small units of less than 2.5 cu yds for 40 hp or less and their high cost of a purchase if available.

 

[earthface]

This is a 2 wheel unit

This is a unit with 4 wheels

Both these seem to be a very simular unit to my 60 year old 4 wheel machine, with only a few modern updates.

Parts Explode view 2 wheel Rouse 3 cu yd
SEE ATTACHMENT

• Click here to see Rowse Dirt Scrapers
  
  Here is their price and cost.
  THREE YARD SCRAPER
  Model #3002, 2 wheel lists for $5,865.00.
  Model #3004, 4 wheel lists for $7,315.00.
  Capacity, heaped...3 cubic yards (approx.)
  Width of cut...95 3/4"
  Overall width...111"
  Box width, front to rear gate...43"
  HP requirements...50 and up
  Weight...Approx. 2000 lbs.
  Hydraulic requirements...One double-acting control valve
  Blade...Removable, high carbon steel
  (3-piece high carbon steel frost blade)
  Tires....95L X 15, 6-ply included with Scraper
  
  Prices are subject to change without notice.
  All prices quoted are F.O.B. at our plant North of Burwell, NE

 

[Renze]

For fine levelling we use a blunt dutch harrow. Actually its just a levelling frame made from old railroad rails, scrapped I and C beams of buildings, etcetera. by adjusting the toplink you can adjust the agressiveness of bite, and also how much of the tops the 1st, 2nd and 3rd beam will top off.

This is a pic
http://www.agrisurfer.com/mirror.aspx?dt=/attachment/size_original/F8D31DA8-F612-4941-B069-03C8C57314BE.jpg

this is the full thread on farmphoto, called "re-seeding a hay field"
http://www.farmphoto.com/photography/message.asp?dsply=all&mid=91015&gkp=

 

[earthface]

Here is the land plane I use it is a 10 ft x 24ft it is for the finish. It is is also old circa 1955

 

[earthface]

This is a quickie land and road leveler similar to your Dutch harrow,
Quick to use quick to build.

 

[JoeinTX]

Durabilt out of Arkansas is another maker of good looking dirt-pans similar to the above.

 

[JoeinTX]

Durabilt out of Arkansas is another maker of good looking dirt-pans similar to the above.

 

[Renze]

Problem with those V levellers is that i cant push dirt into the dead furrow close to the fence, after i have ploughed a horse pasture. They work great to maintain small dirt roads on farms, to fill the wheel ruts. Except for that, they arent used very much in Holland.

I've looked at the durabilt scraper, and it looks like a very nice design, simple and easy. I still question myself if it wouldnt be easier to have a fixed blade scraper with a pivot point behind the blade, to make the blade depth indifferent to the pan dump movement.

http://www.agequipmentusa.com/agequipmentusa/PDF_files/Durabilt%20Dirt%20Pan.pdf