Blown Engine on the Box Store Tractor

[ddivinia]

As a small businessman, competing against the big box stores and the internet, I will not warranty ANYTHING that I did not sell. You want warranty, take it back where you bought it. How can you possibly expect any dealer to bend over backwards for you when you drove right past him to buy something from his competition? I never would have taken the thing in my shop to look at it in the first place. I have stated my position to the factory for the products I sell. The factory rep's begrudgingly stand behind me.
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There ya go. Live by price, die my price. Some people think I am crazy that I buy pretty much everything from my John Deere dealer. Like I tell them, I want them to make a profit - just not too much. I want them to be around to help service, etc.

I have friends that have this attitude - want a new product for a used price with a lifetime warranty. What a bunch of pricks.



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I purchased a log splitter 2 years ago from the local small engine shop. I could have gotten it about $200 cheaper from TSC. The pump went on it after 1 year. I brought it in on a Thursday. The guy asked me if I needed to borrow a splitter until mine was repaired. He was prepared to loan his personal splitter. I told him don't worry about it, I need a rest anyway. He called me Saturday morning. He next day aired in the pump and put it on Friday night.
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Gotta love it.



You guys need to put yourself in our shoes. We buy the equipment to service your products, go for the training, spend all kinds of money on technical materials, then you buy from a place that has to do absolutely none of this. Then you want me to warranty it? You have a better chance of seeing Bin Laden in Times Square on New Years Eve having a beer with Giuliani.

Giuliani s a snake. Read the latest Vanity Fare. Man - it will make your blood boil.

D.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I do agree with you but in the case of the OP, he bought this tractor used and took it to the dealer he bought a 2305 from. I have bought used tractors and taken them to my regular dealer for work (got screwed over pretty good this last time but normally I have got great service). The dealer did what he could to help the OP but I think the OP is expecting more which I don't agree with. I do hope he can get something taken care of but I still look at it as a get what you pay for type of deal.

After reading most of the posts, what I made was a general statement aimed at everybody in general. Anyway, 7 months out of warranty? I feel bad that the guy's engine blew, but, if he sold a guy a product and the guy came back 7 months out of warranty, what would he do? When the purchase was made, a warranty was agreed upon. I know, OP didn't buy it new. Anyway, an agreement was made. Now, after the fact, someone wants to change the agreement? If the manufacturer stopped the warranty 7 months early, he would be screaming murder. Think how the manufacturer feels.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Giuliani s a snake. Read the latest Vanity Fare. Man - it will make your blood boil.

D.

Vanity Fair is hardly a mainstream publication. Another kook fringe rag.

 

[BloomingtonMike]

I look at this as a tool opportunity. If the price of a used box store rider blowing up is a situation for you, IMO, you should not be looking at Deere products. You should know if you own a 2305 or whatever already.

OP, Take it to a local BS mechanic and have it rebuilt and then take your wife out to dinner. Much much better time spent for you and you sanity. Worry about things in life that need worried about. You built into your purchasing equation the possibility of getting a bumm machine when you bought it used.

When you are tired of dealing with this mess, go to a real JD Dealer, take the checkbook, and buy a relationship that comes without all these hassles.

 

[NewToy]

The warranty period is pretty much carved in stone from the mfg's standpoint, unless it's a documented defect, then they might have worked with you. Being expired seven months you have no hope of any consideration other than the aforementioned advice on the sand placement.

John

 

[RobJ]

connecting rods RAREY break after two years of use... If you have a bad rod they go within the first week of ownership.

Connecting rods break because of lack of lubrication. Thus you will never get a warranty. Especially if the dealer took the engine apart and saw medal transfer on the rod and or bearings. There are tell tale signs an engine has had poor lubrication...

As a former mechanic i have to agree. but in a small engine you can look at an overload condition or a sudden engine stop.

 

[RobJ]

The warranty period is pretty much carved in stone from the mfg's standpoint, unless it's a documented defect, then they might have worked with you. Being expired seven months you have no hope of any consideration other than the aforementioned advice on the sand placement.

John

As bad as this sounds this is life. It's out of warranty. There was this one and only time I bought an extended warranty on a Echo trimmer at HD. If I recall correctly the warranty says that HD will provide me with a new one, not anyone else. Ov course since I bought it...it'll never break...it has been a great trimmer for the past 3 years.

Not sure if you can get this warranty on something like a riding mower.

 

[RobJ]

As a small businessman, competing against the big box stores and the internet, I will not warranty ANYTHING that I did not sell. You want warranty, take it back where you bought it. How can you possibly expect any dealer to bend over backwards for you when you drove right past him to buy something from his competition? I never would have taken the thing in my shop to look at it in the first place. I have stated my position to the factory for the products I sell. The factory rep's begrudgingly stand behind me.

I purchased a log splitter 2 years ago from the local small engine shop. I could have gotten it about $200 cheaper from TSC. The pump went on it after 1 year. I brought it in on a Thursday. The guy asked me if I needed to borrow a splitter until mine was repaired. He was prepared to loan his personal splitter. I told him don't worry about it, I need a rest anyway. He called me Saturday morning. He next day aired in the pump and put it on Friday night.

You guys need to put yourself in our shoes. We buy the equipment to service your products, go for the training, spend all kinds of money on technical materials, then you buy from a place that has to do absolutely none of this. Then you want me to warranty it? You have a better chance of seeing Bin Laden in Times Square on New Years Eve having a beer with Giuliani.

Try not to take this as mean sprited...just business. If I knew what you sold and where you sold it...I'd never darken your door. If I buy a JD down the street and come to you for service and you run me off, I would wonder how you would act if I did buy it there and had a problem?? Look down on me, talk down to me. Typically when you become a dealer of an item you agree to support that item. If you do a repair under warranty the OEM company will give you so much per hour of work. When I was in the business we did warranty work no matter who sold it. My work was just on the diesel engine, they were on all sorts of things. We got paid for parts and labor just like any other job...it was at a little less rate, part of the agrement with the OEM. I'm surprised the OEM still has you as a dealer if people have reported this problem.

Don't blame it on the free market system.

 

[RobJ]

Hiya,

I bought a Snapper commercial with a Wisconson/Robyn. He paid $250, I paid $750. He cut his 1/12th acre lawn, I cut mine, my mothers, my aunts and the older couples around the corner. His lasted 3 years, I still have mine and so far the only things I have had to replace are oil, belts and blades.

Did they change the spelling to Robyn? I use to work on the Wisconson Robins in another life. I still have an EY-18w (I think) on my 3500kw generator. Still working BTW after 30 years.

When I google I get some hits with the Robyn spelling. The BS on my current snapper is a POS!! I'd take the old 3.5hp BS on my 1987 snapper anytime.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Try not to take this as mean sprited...just business. If I knew what you sold and where you sold it...I'd never darken your door. If I buy a JD down the street and come to you for service and you run me off, I would wonder how you would act if I did buy it there and had a problem?? Look down on me, talk down to me. Typically when you become a dealer of an item you agree to support that item. If you do a repair under warranty the OEM company will give you so much per hour of work. When I was in the business we did warranty work no matter who sold it. My work was just on the diesel engine, they were on all sorts of things. We got paid for parts and labor just like any other job...it was at a little less rate, part of the agrement with the OEM. I'm surprised the OEM still has you as a dealer if people have reported this problem.

Don't blame it on the free market system.

I know a lot of dealers do not like the deal with box stores. My Cub Cadet dealer doesn't like the people buying CC's at TSC and HD and then having to service these machines on warranty work for a reduced rate if not a loss while TSC, HD and Lowes just pocket the profit. John Deere dealers have to prep these machines and do just about everything so HD and Lowes can pocket the profit while doing none of the work. I personally think JD and CC made a mistake allowing the box stores to sell these machines without having to service them themselves. If they had their own service departments I would imagine the dealers wouldn't be so crossed over this. Maybe the OEM's will reconsider since they are trying to remove full Deere dealerships that can't provide good service so why let the box stores sell without servicing.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Try not to take this as mean sprited...just business. If I knew what you sold and where you sold it...I'd never darken your door. If I buy a JD down the street and come to you for service and you run me off, I would wonder how you would act if I did buy it there and had a problem?? Look down on me, talk down to me. Typically when you become a dealer of an item you agree to support that item. If you do a repair under warranty the OEM company will give you so much per hour of work. When I was in the business we did warranty work no matter who sold it. My work was just on the diesel engine, they were on all sorts of things. We got paid for parts and labor just like any other job...it was at a little less rate, part of the agrement with the OEM. I'm surprised the OEM still has you as a dealer if people have reported this problem.

Don't blame it on the free market system.

No offense taken. But honestly speaking, one thing the big box stores and the internet has done for us it taken away the "bottom feeders." What are these in the business world? The guy that comes in and doesn't want to spend a nickel on anything and complains about everything. These people aren't worth my time and I would rather shut my doors than depend on doing warranty work on stuff someone else sold. If you think I am alone in the business world on this one, you are SERIOUSLY mistaken, I guarantee that.
Also, I don't and have absolutely never talked down to or disrespected any customer at any time in my life. What I do is kindly explain the situation to them. Our policy is not to do warranty work on anything we don't sell. It's posted clearly in the customer area and not one of my customers has ever had a problem with it. There was a large store that used to say, "An educated consumer is our best customer." If you do the research and find that the place you are buying your products from will not stand behind them, why should I? I repeat, they will not stand behind what they sell, why should I stand behind what they sell?

 

[BloomingtonMike]

Wayne (I think that is your name from your member name),

A buddy brought a snowblower to a recommended shop for repair. He had been there earlier in the week and bought some parts as he was going to fix it himself.

They said they would take a look at it and give him a quote the next day. It was done for on a cost to fix vs. machine value perspective. Service rep was very nice. Called my friend back, asked him to stop by.

Explained what was wrong with the walkbehind snowblower. My buddy was happy with the dealer and the honesty about the job before handing it to him in a high cost repair bill.

Buddy bought a $1500 Toro walk behind from that guy on the spot as the dealer did not charge him for the analysis and also took all the previous purchased repair parts back and lowered the machine price accordingly. Also gave him a small trade in on the damaged machine for parts.

Had the dealer refused his business because it was not bought there he would have been out that sale. All it took was some time and attention. Do you just let those kind of customers walk out the door?????? Many of those customers are very wealthy and ready to buy.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Wayne (I think that is your name from your member name),

A buddy brought a snowblower to a recommended shop for repair. He had been there earlier in the week and bought some parts as he was going to fix it himself.

They said they would take a look at it and give him a quote the next day. It was done for on a cost to fix vs. machine value perspective. Service rep was very nice. Called my friend back, asked him to stop by.

Explained what was wrong with the walkbehind snowblower. My buddy was happy with the dealer and the honesty about the job before handing it to him in a high cost repair bill.

Buddy bought a $1500 Toro walk behind from that guy on the spot as the dealer did not charge him for the analysis and also took all the previous purchased repair parts back and lowered the machine price accordingly. Also gave him a small trade in on the damaged machine for parts.

Had the dealer refused his business because it was not bought there he would have been out that sale. All it took was some time and attention. Do you just let those kind of customers walk out the door?????? Many of those customers are very wealthy and ready to buy.

This is by far the exception and not anything close to the rule. I do not, can not, and will not have the time, material, or resources to help all those that choose to shop elsewhere. Judging by the loyalty of my customers, their happiness, and their willingness to drive past 4 or 5 other shops to come to mine, I will not change a thing.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Wayne (I think that is your name from your member name),

A buddy brought a snowblower to a recommended shop for repair. He had been there earlier in the week and bought some parts as he was going to fix it himself.

They said they would take a look at it and give him a quote the next day. It was done for on a cost to fix vs. machine value perspective. Service rep was very nice. Called my friend back, asked him to stop by.

Explained what was wrong with the walkbehind snowblower. My buddy was happy with the dealer and the honesty about the job before handing it to him in a high cost repair bill.

Buddy bought a $1500 Toro walk behind from that guy on the spot as the dealer did not charge him for the analysis and also took all the previous purchased repair parts back and lowered the machine price accordingly. Also gave him a small trade in on the damaged machine for parts.

Had the dealer refused his business because it was not bought there he would have been out that sale. All it took was some time and attention. Do you just let those kind of customers walk out the door?????? Many of those customers are very wealthy and ready to buy.

If you click on his profile you will see his name is Andy. I am going to assume his shop is in Wayne County, PA Wayne County, PA - Home:

 

[Wayne County Hose]

If you click on his profile you will see his name is Andy. I am going to assume his shop is in Wayne County, PA Wayne County, PA - Home:

You can call me Wayne. But it looks like I'm being called much worse, Andy.

 

[js5020]

I think the real problem here lies with the manufacturer,, why do I say that, well if the manufacturer had policy in place to ensure the dealer was fairly rembursed for his efforts, time and resources why would any dealer turn the work away,,,, in other words what I'm trying to say the manufacturer is trying to make the dealer pay all or part of the warranty, there was a time when dealers had the margin to do this, but that time is gone. If I read the original post correctly it had to do with an engine being out of warranty,,, out of warranty is just that OUT of warranty, now if it were out a week or a month well I could see someone going the "extra mile" but 7 months,,,,, come on.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I think the real problem here lies with the manufacturer,, why do I say that, well if the manufacturer had policy in place to ensure the dealer was fairly rembursed for his efforts, time and resources why would any dealer turn the work away,,,, in other words what I'm trying to say the manufacturer is trying to make the dealer pay all or part of the warranty, there was a time when dealers had the margin to do this, but that time is gone. If I read the original post correctly it had to do with an engine being out of warranty,,, out of warranty is just that OUT of warranty, now if it were out a week or a month well I could see someone going the "extra mile" but 7 months,,,,, come on.

I agree, if Deere made things better for their dealers who have to supply HD and Lowes with tractors so that it made them money I am sure they would be happy with the box stores selling tractors. But when they have to hope to break even or make a very minor profit then I agree, it is Deere corp being greedy and causing problems with the true Deere dealers.

Don't the Deere dealers have to not only prep these machines but also deliver them to the box stores for the prep fee?

 

[RobJ]

No offense taken. But honestly speaking, one thing the big box stores and the internet has done for us it taken away the "bottom feeders." What are these in the business world? The guy that comes in and doesn't want to spend a nickel on anything and complains about everything. These people aren't worth my time and I would rather shut my doors than depend on doing warranty work on stuff someone else sold. If you think I am alone in the business world on this one, you are SERIOUSLY mistaken, I guarantee that.
Also, I don't and have absolutely never talked down to or disrespected any customer at any time in my life. What I do is kindly explain the situation to them. Our policy is not to do warranty work on anything we don't sell. It's posted clearly in the customer area and not one of my customers has ever had a problem with it. There was a large store that used to say, "An educated consumer is our best customer." If you do the research and find that the place you are buying your products from will not stand behind them, why should I? I repeat, they will not stand behind what they sell, why should I stand behind what they sell?

People mention the big box stores but in your comment above you say ANYONE. So this means another small business like yours. There are many cases where servicing a warranty projduct can only benefit you. Suppose I just moved into the area and have a problem. Suppose I'm not happy with the dealer where I bought the product and am looking for a new one.

And the hourly rate paid to my company to do warranty work was not pennies on the dollar. If we charged $50 then maybe they paid $40-$45. They didn't pay $20 and hour. Plus with regional manufactor service rep handy he could authorize additional hours for special situations. Overall we gained customers because they "found out about us" for parts and engine service. Especially parts sales.

Just seems poor customer service if I walk in with a problem and I get can't help you....read the sign!

 

[ToadHill]

In my opinion we've picked enough nits in this tread.

 

[ab5056]

Thank you all for your feedback, I agree and disagree on many different levels. As I stated early my ***** has to do with a well maintained engine only lasting 31 months. I assume JD feels the tractor should last longer than that since they offer financing well beyond this time frame.

To give you an update it turns out the dealer did not tear down the engine during their inspection process, they drew a conclusion by looking at the dipstick. As of the other day JD has instructed the dealer to tear dowm the engine and determine what is the cause. Looks like my brother and I are making progress. I hope to hear from JD this week with their findings...I will keep you posted.