Blown Engine on the Box Store Tractor

[ab5056]

drkmstr, I can assure you the engine was maintained, my friend, the original owner, is a master ASE tech and now works with me as a field rep for an automotive manufacturing company, both of us have seen connector rods/lower bearing fail for no good reason. Even when the service records are right on the money.

I guess this won't be such an issue if the motor was priced within reason, $1600, as I said earlier you can buy a new machine for the same money. Why would you!!!!!!!!


I do feel that JD should take ownership of this problem, I have done some surfing and my brother isn't the only one with this problem. They should at least make an offer to assist in the repair; any reputable company would do so. In my job I spend hundreds of thousands every year helping out customers every day who run into premature failure of parts, i.e a steering rack fails at 60,000 miles and the warranty was up at 50K. We do this because we stand by our product and we know we can't have complete control over every component that goes into the car. This is no different, were not talking about minor component, it's the most expensive part.

 

[cast_and_blast]

7 months (+/-) out of warranty and you "expect" JD to take care of it? I think that is an unrealistic expectation for any company. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's the exception and not the rule. Why are you upset with JD and not upset with Briggs and Stratton?

Re-powering this unit should be nowhere near $1600 - if you live in MN I have a guy that does repowering of JD's (specialty).

I know it sucks, but things cannot be in warranty forever.

Good luck!

Scott

 

[Robert_in_NY]

drkmstr, I can assure you the engine was maintained, my friend, the original owner, is a master ASE tech and now works with me as a field rep for an automotive manufacturing company, both of us have seen connector rods/lower bearing fail for no good reason. Even when the service records are right on the money.

I guess this won't be such an issue if the motor was priced within reason, $1600, as I said earlier you can buy a new machine for the same money. Why would you!!!!!!!!


I do feel that JD should take ownership of this problem, I have done some surfing and my brother isn't the only one with this problem. They should at least make an offer to assist in the repair; any reputable company would do so. In my job I spend hundreds of thousands every year helping out customers every day who run into premature failure of parts, i.e a steering rack fails at 60,000 miles and the warranty was up at 50K. We do this because we stand by our product and we know we can't have complete control over every component that goes into the car. This is no different, were not talking about minor component, it's the most expensive part.

If you think the steering rack should last over 60k miles why do you only warranty it for 50k? Is the warranty period a number you just pick out of the blue? Expecting big companies to honor something over 6 months over a 2 year warranty is pushing it. If you wanted something that was going to last a long time why did you buy a bargin basement model? You of all people should know you get what you pay for and as bad as it is you learn from it and move on. You can ask for them to look into covering it (as you did) and if they do then great, if not then oh well you tried.

One problem I see is this, if they honor your claim so far out of warranty and everyone reads about it online would they open themselves up to lawsuits if they don't honor everyone else who has any type of failure within the same time frame past warranty as you?

Have you went after the store it was bought from? They sold it so they should repair it.

 

[ab5056]

Robert in NY, choosing a warranty expiration date I'm sure is the job of some bean counter and if they tried to explian it to us we would never understand. The reason why we step up and help customers is to show them that we understand that their frustrated and to help restore faith in the product they bought and that we don't turn our back on them when a major component craps out prematurely. Let痴 say the tractor should last 10 years, well he only had use of a major component for 25% of its life. If their not made to last 10 then let痴 say 8 yrs, again 1/3 of its life is all he got. Again remember this is a major component, not a lever, cable or an axle, it's an engine.

And I'm not going to let it go, I expect someone at JD to step up to the plate and make a fair offer.

Just as a FYI to all of you who warn about buying from a box store, when you call JD as well as the dealer and ask about the difference between a box store tractor and a dealer tractor they tell you there is no difference. We know this because my father purchased on at Lowes this past summer and he made the calls.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert in NY, choosing a warranty expiration date I'm sure is the job of some bean counter and if they tried to explian it to us we would never understand. The reason why we step up and help customers is to show them that we understand that their frustrated and to help restore faith in the product they bought and that we don't turn our back on them when a major component craps out prematurely. Let痴 say the tractor should last 10 years, well he only had use of a major component for 25% of its life. If their not made to last 10 then let痴 say 8 yrs, again 1/3 of its life is all he got. Again remember this is a major component, not a lever, cable or an axle, it's an engine.

And I'm not going to let it go, I expect someone at JD to step up to the plate and make a fair offer.

Just as a FYI to all of you who warn about buying from a box store, when you call JD as well as the dealer and ask about the difference between a box store tractor and a dealer tractor they tell you there is no difference. We know this because my father purchased on at Lowes this past summer and he made the calls.

Why don't you take the tractor back to Home Depot or Lowes and demand they fix it for you? Since it was the motor why don't you bang on the company that made the motors door since they built the defective part?

What it boils down to is you bought a cheap tractor and it failed. If you wanted a tractor that was going to last 10+ years then you should have went to the John Deere dealership and bought a higher grade model. You win some you lose some. In this case you lost. You can argue all you want but you are out of line trying to demand Deere warranty something that is this far out of warranty. You can sue them also but will cost you more in legal fees then a new machine. If you do not like the Deere product then buy another brand. MTD has a lot of different lawn mowers out there. With these cheap box store machines theres no telling how good a unit you get until it dies. As I said, my MTD is over 10 years old and is still going with plenty of maintance. However, I see tons of these same models in the junk yard that didn't last a fraction of the time mine did.

I know if I was in your shoes I would be upset but look at all the things from a different perspective. Your machine is 6+ months out of warranty. You are the second owner of this machine. It is a box store machine. Now you are going to a Deere dealer and want them to work Deere over to get them to warranty a machine that is past its warranty and was bought at a competitor. Its a crappy situation but it is what it is and you are out of luck unless Deere feels generous.

As for the box store machines being the same the Deere dealers sell that is true to a small point. The box stores only get the cheapest machines to sell. They can't sell the good machines (at least they couldn't and I have never them sell a quality Deere mower).

 

[plowrup]

ab5056,

You really need to see a B & S Warranty Dealer if you think it needs to be covered under Warranty. The Dealer (who, by the way, did not originally sell it, therefore did not make a profit), will lose money fixing it UNDER Warranty, much less out of Warranty-John Deere expects the Dealer to share in the Repair costs if outside of Warranty (it's called a Special Allowance), and frankly, since he didn't sell it I'm certain he doesn't feel the need to participate. Why don't you go to the original Seller (HD, Lowe's, whatever?). THEY made the profit from the sale, not the Dealer.

Or, you can call the Mass Channel Division of John Deere (which handles HD, Lowe's), but I really doubt you will get any help on a unit that is that far out of Warranty. As one Poster so eloquently explained, these unit are built as PRICE units (to compete with MTD, Toro, etc. on price), not QUALITY units-if you want that, go buy an "X" Series, and then I think you may have a leg to stand on-good luck.

 

[ab5056]

plowrup, you are correct the dealer will have to particpate in the repair, at least this is how it works in my line of work, we call it goodwill. And since I just bought a 2305, our friend sold this machine to my brother so he could buy a x700 I expect the store to help out somewhat. They were also the ones who set the machine up for HD. I don't expect the dealer to lose money, and when warranty is performed in almost every case the dealer is getting back from the manufacture the posted labor rate or at least very close to it. Lets say they get 60-75 bucks an hour, they aren't paying the tech that. They will lose money when we pick up the machine without having the work done, thats losing money. I'm not trying to beat up the dealer or HD, they didn't build it and if JD can't bulid a quality product for the price that HD is asking for then they shouldn't build/sell it to them.

 

[plowrup]

plowrup, you are correct the dealer will have to particpate in the repair, at least this is how it works in my line of work, we call it goodwill. And since I just bought a 2305, our friend sold this machine to my brother so he could buy a x700 I expect the store to help out somewhat. They were also the ones who set the machine up for HD. I don't expect the dealer to lose money, and when warranty is performed in almost every case the dealer is getting back from the manufacture the posted labor rate or at least very close to it. Lets say they get 60-75 bucks an hour, they aren't paying the tech that. They will lose money when we pick up the machine without having the work done, thats losing money. I'm not trying to beat up the dealer or HD, they didn't build it and if JD can't bulid a quality product for the price that HD is asking for then they shouldn't build/sell it to them.

ab5056,

Glad to hear you understand Warranty to a degree-Yes, the Dealer will get his posted Labor Rate, however it is VERY difficult to hit the Flat Rate times (Deere calls it an SPG)-so yes, he will lose money. If they do Customer work @ 60-75 (at least in my shop) I don't lose money-I do write off a lot on Deere Warranty however-contrary to popular belief, Dealers do not make money on Warranty (well, if they are honest)-I have had issues with B & S-I am a B & S (not for long) Warranty location, and I have seen them turn down 75%+ of out-of-warranty issues on non-Deere items. This is really not a Dealer problem-he is simply an independent Dealer trying to make a profit. In my opinion you would have this issue with any Dealer on a Mass Channel item-I have heard absolute horror stories from Reps of other Brands on HD, Lowe's items-you are certainly not alone. John Deere finds itself (as many MFG's do) in a precarious position-how do they increase Sales while keeping the overhead low? Get your Dealers to do the Warranty. You need to call the Mass Channel Center (877-264-9547)-they are your best source for this problem-

By the way, you are correct-the Dealer only SETS UP the Machine (for which he gets the astounding sum of $35)-big profits there after driving to their location-as Dealers we are not given the choice of working on these units-most of us would choose not to-

 

[drkmstr]

7 months out of warranty AND the second owner? Sounds like a sorry we can't help you problem to me. I would also wonder if a tractor so cheap even has a warranty that will transfer to a second owner? A lot of products are for the first owner only and it sounds like the first owner wasn't brought into the picture till they refused to help the first time. That's sort of like slowing down after the radar gun has already clocked your speed, doesn't do much good!!

Who owns the machine is not relevant. You can read JD's warranty statements online. Warranty is tied to machine and the date the warranty is registered. Res. warranties are all 2 years on the 100 series...

 

[drkmstr]

drkmstr, I can assure you the engine was maintained, my friend, the original owner, is a master ASE tech and now works with me as a field rep for an automotive manufacturing company, both of us have seen connector rods/lower bearing fail for no good reason. Even when the service records are right on the money.

I guess this won't be such an issue if the motor was priced within reason, $1600, as I said earlier you can buy a new machine for the same money. Why would you!!!!!!!!


I do feel that JD should take ownership of this problem, I have done some surfing and my brother isn't the only one with this problem. They should at least make an offer to assist in the repair; any reputable company would do so. In my job I spend hundreds of thousands every year helping out customers every day who run into premature failure of parts, i.e a steering rack fails at 60,000 miles and the warranty was up at 50K. We do this because we stand by our product and we know we can't have complete control over every component that goes into the car. This is no different, were not talking about minor component, it's the most expensive part.

Let me say I am very familiar with how JD does warranties. You may have a dealer not going to bat for you... JD will give special allowances outside of the warranty period for up to 5 years on major failures NOT caused by user error.

If the evidence suggests a lack of lubrication then JD/Briggs or whomever will not warranty the product. I have been in the small engine business for a very long time and the number of strange failures like you are claiming is minute. If you have metal transfer on the bearing you have had lack of lubrication at some point. Once the damage is done it is done and may take time to break the rod.

To be fair you have not mentioned (or that I have read) what diagnosis the dealer gave. Did the dealer tear the engine down and take photos?

If you have a broken rod and NO metal transfer you may have a case. Otherwise, you are right buy new mower...

 

[ddivinia]

Since then I have never purchased anything with a BS engine and I never will! I also tell this story to anyone I know who even thinks about using BS engines.

There ya go - give me a Honda any day.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

MrJimi: Just a point of reference. About 2 weeks ago the battery on my wifes 04 Caddy just up and died. Delco batt and on it it says 6 year warranty. I call the service department, guess what, the batt warrenty is only as long as the car, not 6 years. Of course the warranty on the car expired on October.

That isn't correct. The battery has warranty, but thru the manufacturer, not the Caddy dealer. Now, if it is a Delco battery - they should prorate the warranty onit.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

7 months out of warranty AND the second owner? Sounds like a sorry we can't help you problem to me. I would also wonder if a tractor so cheap even has a warranty that will transfer to a second owner? A lot of products are for the first owner only and it sounds like the first owner wasn't brought into the picture till they refused to help the first time. That's sort of like slowing down after the radar gun has already clocked your speed, doesn't do much good!!

It is really 7 months out of warranty. If the engine has a 2 yr warranty and it was bought from the original owner a year ago and the original owner had it for yr - that is 2 years.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

connecting rods RAREY break after two years of use... If you have a bad rod they go within the first week of ownership.

Connecting rods break because of lack of lubrication. Thus you will never get a warranty. Especially if the dealer took the engine apart and saw medal transfer on the rod and or bearings. There are tell tale signs an engine has had poor lubrication...

Don't blame JD or Briggs, blame the person responsible for maintenance...

Might have run it out of oil.

Maybe the engine wasn't machine properly or something and the crank wasn't oiling properly. Who knows...

D.

 

[Champy]

For what its worth....8 yrs ago I bought an MTD YardMan riding mower from Lowes. Early one morning during the first year, my wife starts yelling at me to get out of bed......I run out to the garage and the mower is sitting there cranking away trying to start all by itself! Smoke is pouring out of the starter, etc....

I called up MTD and was told to take it to their local authorized service location (~5mi). They determined some wiring had shorted out and due to the extended "burn" could not be properly repaired. MTD said take it back to Lowes and get a new one. Did just that...no questions asked...went home with a new one which is still running today out on our tree farm.

Conversely I do have an older JD245(?) that is solid steel everything and is a tank. My only complaint on it is the interlock pin to allow freewheeling is broken and you cannot push it in neutral...only moves under its own power.

 

[cast_and_blast]

ab5056 -

I understand that you are frustrated by the situation, but it seems that you'll probably need more of an engine failure analysis before anything else. Here's a link to a place nearby me (in MN) that does many re-powers:

Small Engine - Replacement Engines - Engine Kit - Repower

This guy is amazing when it comes to Deere products - he'll probably even chat with you about the issue over the phone. He ships out re-power kits; not sure what model your Deere is and or what size/type of engine you'd need.

No - I'm not affiliated with this place at all. He's worked on some of my small engines in the past and is honest and reputable.

Good luck!

Scott

 

[JD3520]

Sounds like the good friend that sold you the mower wasn't that good of a friend. Maybe he run it out of oil and decided to sell it before it broke on him. Why not go back to the good friend for money to repair it? I have to agree with most others here and say JD went above and beyond for simply looking at an item that is that far out of warranty. You are wanting them to add over 25% to their warranty period just for you. Things wear out and things break. It's called life.

 

[hydrovane218]

I hate to add insult to injury but I bought an L120 from the DESPOT(hold your stones....I do feel bad about it) a couple years(2) back. I think it has about 100 hours on it and is fine. It seems to start rich(black smoke) for one or two seconds but is fine otherwise(It has a V Twin B&S).
I have changed the oil three, maybe four times since, scraped the deck clean and oiled it before putting it away & changed the blades once now(with a new set sitting for stock). I always use Stabil before storing for the winter, grease what fittings there are, have changed the air filter once, and will change the plugs and fuel filter in the spring with stock I bought from my JD dealer. I also now have a 3203 and plan on doing the same mainteneance. Bottom line from me is that I knew this was a discount Deere, have treated it well and so far so good. I understand that yours was apparently taken care of also and feel for ya as a result. Hope you get somewhere with it....

 

[Wayne County Hose]

As a small businessman, competing against the big box stores and the internet, I will not warranty ANYTHING that I did not sell. You want warranty, take it back where you bought it. How can you possibly expect any dealer to bend over backwards for you when you drove right past him to buy something from his competition? I never would have taken the thing in my shop to look at it in the first place. I have stated my position to the factory for the products I sell. The factory rep's begrudgingly stand behind me.

I purchased a log splitter 2 years ago from the local small engine shop. I could have gotten it about $200 cheaper from TSC. The pump went on it after 1 year. I brought it in on a Thursday. The guy asked me if I needed to borrow a splitter until mine was repaired. He was prepared to loan his personal splitter. I told him don't worry about it, I need a rest anyway. He called me Saturday morning. He next day aired in the pump and put it on Friday night.

You guys need to put yourself in our shoes. We buy the equipment to service your products, go for the training, spend all kinds of money on technical materials, then you buy from a place that has to do absolutely none of this. Then you want me to warranty it? You have a better chance of seeing Bin Laden in Times Square on New Years Eve having a beer with Giuliani.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

As a small businessman, competing against the big box stores and the internet, I will not warranty ANYTHING that I did not sell. You want warranty, take it back where you bought it. How can you possibly expect any dealer to bend over backwards for you when you drove right past him to buy something from his competition? I never would have taken the thing in my shop to look at it in the first place. I have stated my position to the factory for the products I sell. The factory rep's begrudgingly stand behind me.

I purchased a log splitter 2 years ago from the local small engine shop. I could have gotten it about $200 cheaper from TSC. The pump went on it after 1 year. I brought it in on a Thursday. The guy asked me if I needed to borrow a splitter until mine was repaired. He was prepared to loan his personal splitter. I told him don't worry about it, I need a rest anyway. He called me Saturday morning. He next day aired in the pump and put it on Friday night.

You guys need to put yourself in our shoes. We buy the equipment to service your products, go for the training, spend all kinds of money on technical materials, then you buy from a place that has to do absolutely none of this. Then you want me to warranty it? You have a better chance of seeing Bin Laden in Times Square on New Years Eve having a beer with Giuliani.

I do agree with you but in the case of the OP, he bought this tractor used and took it to the dealer he bought a 2305 from. I have bought used tractors and taken them to my regular dealer for work (got screwed over pretty good this last time but normally I have got great service). The dealer did what he could to help the OP but I think the OP is expecting more which I don't agree with. I do hope he can get something taken care of but I still look at it as a get what you pay for type of deal.