Best way to remove all methanol from tires.

[LD48750]

Whether it is 40% or 75%, Rimguard will always be heavier. I am in the Ozarks. Nothing is flat. Methanol is not heavy enough. And, being in the hills, I don't want any added weight above the axles. Both the manual and the dealer say to fill only to 40%. I am inclined to go as far as 50%, to the axles, but not above. At 50%, the difference between methanol and Rimguard is an added 180 pounds. Thanks, Larry

I can't find a 40% recommendation for ANY tire fill anyplace.
I sure would like to see a screenshot of that manual page.

Now wondering if the 40% is the recommended MIX of water & methanol to get to where it won't freeze.
That would leave 60% water to the 75% fill that the OP isn't figuring into his weight calculations.

 

[oosik]

OK - I found the Op Manual for the Kubota L4701. In the section regarding rear tire ballast.

It says( I paraphrase here ) - when using any acceptable type of liquid ballast - DO NOT fill the rear tire more than 75% of it volume with the liquid ballast.

Page 61 of the L4701 Operators Manual.

I, also, want to see a screen shot of the Op Manual that shows the 40%.

 

[ljjhouser]

I can't find a 40% recommendation for ANY tire fill anyplace.
I sure would like to see a screenshot of that manual page.

Now wondering if the 40% is the recommended MIX of water & methanol to get to where it won't freeze.
That would leave 60% water to the 75% fill that the OP isn't figuring into his weight calculations.

I guess I did say found in my Kubota manual. And you are right, 40% is not in the Kubota manual, I was mistaken.

Kubota only mentions 75% as a MAXIUM fill. It does not make a preferred recommendation. Leaves that to the dealer.

The information below is from the salesman manual posted online by John Deere. You can read their Preferred recommendation just after the IMPORTANT below.

This posting can be found here: Using liquid ballast in tires

I suspect that may be because of increased law suits regarding ballast experienced in more recent years. Looks like the link is dated 2006, but I think the last update was stated as 2013. The very first statement clearly displays the JD concern about using liquid.
And I an not saying I agree with that. The benefits of that ballast (for me) clearly outweighs the down side and ride performance.

But regardless, I do not want excess weight above the axle.

​ ​ IMPORTANT:Liquid ballast is not preferred in rear tires. Liquid weight greatly increases tire stiffness at lower operating pressures and greatly reduces ride performance. In some cases liquid will be needed in the front tires to achieve the correct weight splits with some implements for field operation and transporting. CAUTION: Installing liquid ballast requires special equipment and training. See your John Deere dealer or tire service store. IMPORTANT: Never fill any tire to more than 90% full. More solution could damage tire. Use of water or calcium chloride solution can be used to provide economical ballast. A mixture of 3.5 lb. of calcium chloride per U.S. gal. (0.42 kg per liter) will not freeze solid above -50 F (-45 C). However, liquid ballast is not recommended because it results in harsh ride, difficulty in handling, spills if flats occur, and when used in rear tires can result in greater susceptibility to power hop. CAUTION: Avoid possible injury due to losing control of tractor. Limit transport speed to 20 mph (32 km/h) when using liquid ballast. Note:Use of alcohol as liquid ballast is not recommended. Calcium chloride solution is heavier and more economical.IMPORTANT: A maximum liquid fill of 40 percent is recommended in rear tires for better tractor performance instead of the previous recommendation of 75 percent fill. Fill tube-type or tubeless tires up to valve level (40 percent full) with valve (A) shown above, in the 4 o'clock position. When putting liquid in either front or rear tires, make sure both front tires have the same amount of liquid fill and/or all rear tires have the same amount of liquid fill.

​ ​

​ ​ REAR TIRE Liquid Weight Per Tire​ Tire Size​ 40% Fill​ 75% Fill​ 3.5 lb./gal. (kg)​ 5.0 lb./gal. (kg)​ 3.5 lb./gal. (kg)​ 5.0 lb./gal. (kg)​ 14.9R46​ 429 (195)​ 462 (210)​ 805 (365)​ 867 (393)​ 18.4-42 / 18.4R42​ 619 (281)​ 661 (300)​ 1160 (527)​ 1240 (563)​ 18.4R46​ 701 (318)​ 747 (339)​ 1314 (596)​ 1400 (635)​ 20.8-38 / 20.8R38​ 758 (344)​ 811 (368)​ 1421 (645)​ 1521 (690)​ 20.8R42​ 802 (364)​ 853 (387)​ 1503 (682)​ 1600 (726)​ 320/90R50​ 297 (134)​ 320 (145)​ 556 (252)​ 600 (272)​ 320/90R54​ 303 (138)​ 320 (145)​ 568 (258)​ 600 (272)​ 380/90R50​ 429 (195)​ 455 (206)​ 805 (365)​ 854 (387)​ 420/80R46​ 467 (212)​ 498 (226)​ 876 (397)​ 934 (423)​ 480/80R42​ 614 (278)​ 654 (297)​ 1148 (521)​ 1227 (557)​ 480/80R46​ 644 (292)​ 690 (313)​ 1207 (548)​ 1294 (587)​ 480/80R50​ 676 (307)​ 725 (329)​ 1267 (575)​ 1360 (617)​ 520/85R38​ 719 (326)​ 768 (348)​ 1349 (612)​ 1440 (653)​ 520/85R42​ 770 (349)​ 818 (371)​ 1444 (655)​ 1534 (696)​ 520/85R46​ 827 (375)​ 882 (400)​ 1551 (703)​ 1654 (750)​ 620/70R42​ 915 (415)​ 974 (442)​ 1716 (779)​ 1827 (829)​ 620/70R46​ 991 (450)​ 1058 (477)​ 1858 (843)​ 1984 (895)​ 650/85R38​ 1237 (561)​ 1316 (597)​ 2320 (1052)​ 2467 (1119)​ 710/70R38​ 1092 (495)​ 1159 (526)​ 2048 (929)​ 2174 (986)​ 710/70R42​ 1231 (558)​ 1316 (597)​ 2308 (1047)​ 2467 (1119)​ 800/70R38​ 1433 (650)​ 1529 (694)​ 2687 (1219)​ 2867 (1301)​

From Kubota Manual.
A Do not fill tires with water or solution more than 75% of
full capacity (to the valve stem level at 12 o'clock
position).

(A) Correct-75% Air compresses like a cushion
(B) Incorrect-100% Full Water can not be
compressed

 

[ljjhouser]

Sloshing ballast in a 40% filled tire negates any center of gravity gains compared to 80% filled tire. It’s the dynamic forces that overturn tractors more than the static.

Well Smokey,
That is a good property to point out. Hadn't thought of that. There would be a lot more room for movement. I am at 40% methanol now and don't feel any problems. But that doesn't mean the heavier mass of Rimguard would be ok.. It might become a problem. Thanks, Good point I must consider. I also was looking into this because the nearest Rimguard dealer is 3.5 hrs away. It would take two trips to get it done. It is also my understanding that Rimguard is sold by the pound (sometimes gallon) installed, regardless if you install it (which I will not do. Could turn into a big mess and unsafe probably). No difference in cost. Thanks, Larry

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Put tubes in and fill with water and anti freeze. Problem solved. I have a 1958 tractor here with that mix.

 

[LD48750]

I am really curious now.

OP..Would you jack up your tractor just to the point you take the weight off the tire.
Rotate the valve stem to the 12 O'clock .
Remove valve stem and rotate until you get liquid.
Let us know if that isn't until you get to 4 O'clock.

Put liquid on a piece of paper & see if it will burn.

I think I understand your safety concerns but don't understand why the hundreds of thousands of farmers & tractor owners that have been running at 75% haven't had the problem you fear.

 

[oosik]

I can see it now. Somebody on a JD tractor tipped over. His rear tires were 75% full of something. A clever shyster convinced the jury that 75% full created an imbalance.

Just as a note - I've had two tractors out here for forty years. Brand new Ford 1700 4WD for 27 years. Now a 2009 Kubota M6040. Both had/have filled rear tires. The Ford had NaCl - the Kubota has Rim Guard.

What have I noticed. Increased stability with filled rear tires.

However - you are absolutely correct on the 40% in the data you found. I think this is a knee-jerk reaction to legal action.

My sincere feeling - you will be shorting yourself if you only fill to the 40% level. You should NEVER be running horizontal on a slope on a tractor where the difference between 40% and 75% might cause the tractor to upset.

Most likely - you are on a slope > rear wheel goes into a hole > over you go. Tires filled to 40% OR 75% will make no difference. Tire filled to 40% IS NOT going to save you. Tire filled to 75% WILL NOT increase the chance of this happening.

 

[ljjhouser]

I did not say anything about others using 75%. I did say that in the environment I was told 40% by the dealer. THAT is not my concern. I was asked to POST a page showing preference to 40%. I did so. I even stated that I did not agree with JD. AND in you are curious, read my post. I stated that I would not remove all the methanol nor install Rimguard myself. The OP was about learning if I could remove enough methanol to put Rimguard WITHOUT going as far as removing the tires and rims. I also posted - what I was told by a tire service. And got the quote to have them install Rimguard by removing the tires and rims.

Not sure what you are getting at with all the rest of all it. It was part of the Manual for Kubota and JD post I was asked to find.

I cannot believe how off track we can get here. I DO NOT care if someone uses 75%. If my operating environment were more flat, I would also. It would be soooo easy and cheap to solve a ballast issue.

 

[ljjhouser]

My sincere feeling - you will be shorting yourself if you only fill to the 40% level. You should NEVER be running horizontal on a slope on a tractor where the difference between 40% and 75% might cause the tractor to upset.

Most likely - you are on a slope > rear wheel goes into a hole > over you go. Tires filled to 40% OR 75% will make no difference. Tire filled to 40% IS NOT going to save you. Tire filled to 75% WILL NOT increase the chance of this happening.

These are very helpful statements and deserve a lot of consideration. I would really like to add more. And what you are saying may be the best answer. I have never heard anyone say 75% is an issue. i was also surprised to read that. I think you aould be hard pressed to find a farmer who plows with empty tires - traction is needed.

But I think if I were a tractor manufacturer, I would be careful about making any recommendation regarding ballast that did not involve a tractor use and terrain involved.

I agree with you about the legal issues faced by dealers. I think that is why they start out with a We don't recommend (anything). BUT be sure to use ballast.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[TractorGuy]

Weld a barbell rack on the box blade and load 300 on lbs on that.

 

[oosik]

Sorry - I did not intend to upset anybody. Just some of my experiences. Generally speaking - increased weight will improve traction. To get improved roll over protection - spread out the rear wheels.

And you are spot on about my Kubota Op Manual on weight. They basically say - be sure to add enough weight on the 3-point or rear tires to offset whatever will be lifted with the FEL. End of recommendation .......

 

[Have tractor did travel]

Following up on TractorGuy's comment - I use two concrete lintels, both 5 foot, laid across the box blade. I'm not able to lift either of them, but can lift one end of each of them. So let's say they each weigh 160 lbs., 320 lbs combined.
For my aerator, I use 8 concrete blocks at 40 lbs each, so 320 lbs
Those implements are used with one of my Kubota's
The Ingersoll has RimGuard. It's attachments are not so heavy, nor strong enough to carry a lintel

 

[ljjhouser]

That's ok. You didn't. I probably over reacted anyway. Thanks for the post. Best Wishes.

 

[ljjhouser]

Have Tractor Will Travel - when I saw you post, I had to scratch my head for a while. It has been a long time since I built with concrete blocks. I had forgotten. That is a good suggestion. I have tried 8x8x16 blocks, but they only weigh 32 pounds and I could only secure 6. About 190 pounds. But you may be right, a lintel might be heavier and easier to secure. The blocks are still too light. Home Depot listed one, but only 2" @4' very light. there must be a place around here to get one. I will check it out. Thank You.

 

[mo1]

Reading this thread, the OP clearly is overloading the front axle and will destroy it if he continues to use too little ballast. He should read the owner's manual to see their ballast recommendations and follow it. I suspect it will call for a lot more 3 point ballast than a 400 pound box blade even with 75% fill in the tires. The OP probably will have to fill the tires to 75% with something, either topping up the methanol/water or replacing it with beet juice and then adding wheel weights and/or having a lot more weight on the 3 point hitch. He could either get a much heavier box blade, add extra weight (iron, solid concrete blocks, etc.) or some combination of the two. Without knowing the exact ballast recommendations, it will be hard to say exactly what he should do.

The discussion about 40% liquid fills relates to radial tires on row crop tractors where ride quality while roading >20 MPH and power hop are major concerns. Those are not going to be concerns with a tractor that has a top speed of less than 16 MPH and the main concern here is using a loader instead of a giant no-till drill or ripper or some other high draft load pulled at high speed.

I also live in the general region the OP does and bought my tractor here. My rear tires came filled to 75% with water/methanol and this is essentially standard for any ag tractor. It used to be calcium chloride and water but that has been moved away from due to the corrosiveness of the calcium chloride. The commentary about beet juice locally is that it's a pain in the behind as it makes servicing tires extremely difficult due to the sticky mess it creates, and it's expensive stuff, so few ag tractors run it. There is little row cropping done here, cattle ranching is the main agricultural pursuit, so ballasting tractors properly for handling large round and square bales is much more important here than mitigating power hop. Shoot, power hop isn't even possible on many tractors here as that only occurs with driven front wheels. You don't need MFWD to run hay equipment or feed bales, so there are a lot of 2WD tractors around here.

 

[jyoutz]

I was thinking the same way. But I think it is highly flammable. I know water is added when putting it in, I just don't know how much water is usually added. Wonder if you could let it evaporate with no issues.

It’s usually a 50-50 mix with water, so I don’t think it’s flammable.

 

[jyoutz]

Put tubes in and fill with water and anti freeze. Problem solved. I have a 1958 tractor here with that mix.

That works, but anti-freeze isn’t cheap and doesn’t provide freeze protection forever.

 

[jyoutz]

Reading this thread, the OP clearly is overloading the front axle and will destroy it if he continues to use too little ballast. He should read the owner's manual to see their ballast recommendations and follow it. I suspect it will call for a lot more 3 point ballast than a 400 pound box blade even with 75% fill in the tires. The OP probably will have to fill the tires to 75% with something, either topping up the methanol/water or replacing it with beet juice and then adding wheel weights and/or having a lot more weight on the 3 point hitch. He could either get a much heavier box blade, add extra weight (iron, solid concrete blocks, etc.) or some combination of the two. Without knowing the exact ballast recommendations, it will be hard to say exactly what he should do.

The discussion about 40% liquid fills relates to radial tires on row crop tractors where ride quality while roading >20 MPH and power hop are major concerns. Those are not going to be concerns with a tractor that has a top speed of less than 16 MPH and the main concern here is using a loader instead of a giant no-till drill or ripper or some other high draft load pulled at high speed.

I also live in the general region the OP does and bought my tractor here. My rear tires came filled to 75% with water/methanol and this is essentially standard for any ag tractor. It used to be calcium chloride and water but that has been moved away from due to the corrosiveness of the calcium chloride. The commentary about beet juice locally is that it's a pain in the behind as it makes servicing tires extremely difficult due to the sticky mess it creates, and it's expensive stuff, so few ag tractors run it. There is little row cropping done here, cattle ranching is the main agricultural pursuit, so ballasting tractors properly for handling large round and square bales is much more important here than mitigating power hop. Shoot, power hop isn't even possible on many tractors here as that only occurs with driven front wheels. You don't need MFWD to run hay equipment or feed bales, so there are a lot of 2WD tractors around here.

Could beet juice be added to tubes, thereby eliminating the sticky mess issues?

 

[mo1]

Could beet juice be added to tubes, thereby eliminating the sticky mess issues?

You can add ballast to tubed tires. It would add quite a bit of extra work to install a tube in a tubeless tire as most tractor tires today are tubeless. Also any leaks in the tube will result in the ballast getting inside of the tire and rim, just somewhat less of it compared to no tube.

 

[jyoutz]

You can add ballast to tubed tires. It would add quite a bit of extra work to install a tube in a tubeless tire as most tractor tires today are tubeless. Also any leaks in the tube will result in the ballast getting inside of the tire and rim, just somewhat less of it compared to no tube.

I tubed the front tires on my tubeless tires because they had too many leaks, but of course the front tires don’t have ballast