Box Scraper Beginners guide to using a box blade

[edkemper]

Thanks for the heads up and the example. I see what you are talking about. I'll address adding some steel soon.

 

[8N Ren]

Hey Mods!

I might be wrong but this should be stickied or at the very least post #8 turned into a tutorial.

Thanks for the tips 3RRL you have helped a lot of people.

 

[steve a]

Just found this site and read all pages of this topic. I just moved from the city to this 25 acres in the sticks; I am new to tractors and just bought my first one, a Kubota L3400, which I got mainly for brush/fire controll. I am learning to use the brush-hog and front loader, but have found it difficult to do any decent looking grading/smoothing with the loader bucket. I know that a Gannon would work better for that so I came to this thread to get educated, before I buy the wrong thing. After reading up here, I have a better idea what size I need...looks like a 5 to 6 footer; leaning toward the 5 since my property and roads are very hard and rocky with the sub surface rocks running from fist-size to car or even house-size. The larger ones kind of determine the grade, so I am stuck with surfaces that undulate left/right as well as up/down. Maybe I could build up the bad areas with fill dirt, but that's going to take a LOT of dirt. I am old and my remaining years are no doubt short, so should probably stick to filling in the water erosion channels so that a 2WD vehicle can manage.
My tractor doesn't have a hydraulic top link; just a manual turnbuckle. It doesn't have hydraulics for operating Gannon scarrifier/rippers either; is it worth adding the hydraulics, or is it even feasible?

 

[8N Ren]

Steve, measure your rear tires outside to outside and go from there, ideally you would want to cover your tracks.

 

[jeff9366]

I am old and my remaining years are no doubt short, so should probably stick to filling in the water erosion channels so that a 2WD vehicle can manage. My tractor doesn't have a hydraulic top link; just a manual turnbuckle. It doesn't have hydraulics for operating Gannon scarrifier/rippers either; is it worth adding the hydraulics, or is it even feasible?

It is no big deal to add rear remotes:

Fit Rite Hydraulics - fitritehydraulics.com



Consider a Rollover Box Blade (ROBB) in lieu of a standard Box Blade.

Brian, who is FIT RITE HYDRAULICS, has several ROBBs.

ROBBs were designed before rear remote hydraulics came on the tractor scene.

At that time, the Gannon "Earthcavator" was the premier ROBB used in construction.

ROBBs are simpler to use than a standard Box Blade and require less adjustment.

ROBBs are heavier than the equivalent width standard Box Blades, therefore, unfortunately, cost more.

Personally, I seek/am attracted to simple solutions. In the case of a ROBB, you pay more for the simpler solution.


Dirt Dog Manufacturing

LANDSCAPE BOX-ROLLOVER 3 POSITION | A&B Eagleline Farm Equipment

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If the ground is REALLY dry, adobe, no Box Blade will cut. The ground has to contain at least a little moisture.

 

[RDrancher]

Just found this site and read all pages of this topic. I just moved from the city to this 25 acres in the sticks; I am new to tractors and just bought my first one, a Kubota L3400, which I got mainly for brush/fire controll. I am learning to use the brush-hog and front loader, but have found it difficult to do any decent looking grading/smoothing with the loader bucket. I know that a Gannon would work better for that so I came to this thread to get educated, before I buy the wrong thing. After reading up here, I have a better idea what size I need...looks like a 5 to 6 footer; leaning toward the 5 since my property and roads are very hard and rocky with the sub surface rocks running from fist-size to car or even house-size. The larger ones kind of determine the grade, so I am stuck with surfaces that undulate left/right as well as up/down. Maybe I could build up the bad areas with fill dirt, but that's going to take a LOT of dirt. I am old and my remaining years are no doubt short, so should probably stick to filling in the water erosion channels so that a 2WD vehicle can manage.
My tractor doesn't have a hydraulic top link; just a manual turnbuckle. It doesn't have hydraulics for operating Gannon scarrifier/rippers either; is it worth adding the hydraulics, or is it even feasible?

Welcome Steve!

Jeff has some great info in his post. I'll add this... SoCal is home to an abundance of old skip loaders and a nice, heavy box blade shouldn't be hard to find. Gannon will be the brand you'll find most often. The majority of skip loaders are set up for hydraulic scarifiers, but there will be a few manual scarifiers too. Most of the older Ford/New Holland, John Deere, Massey and International skip loaders will have a 6' box blade hanging off the back, and that would be a good size for your tractor. Some will be equipped with a 66" model. Just make sure that it covers the width of your tires. Don't be afraid of an older model as parts are readily available from any Woods dealer (They own Gannon now.) Some that you'll see may be bowed a bit if they have a pintle or ball hitch mounted on them for dragging around asphalt equipment. If it's not bowed too bad it'll work just fine. Keep in mind that even the older 70's 2WD skip loaders are around 10,000 lbs. A compact utility tractor doesn't have enough ground power to hurt a construction grade Gannon.

It was pretty hard to find a used Gannon here in Texas...especially a six footer. Where you're at I'd check out all of the older asphalt contractors and construction sale yards. I don't think you'll have a hard time finding one. Here's mine with manual scarifiers.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Steve, I'm just down the hill in Lakeside. Not really a problem to add all the stuff that would make your life easier, just takes money. A new roll over box blade is going to cost some money. There is usually 1 or 2 for sale on Craigslist down in the Imperial valley. Typically $600-$800 and that would be about half of what a new one costs. A 65" unit fits your tractor perfect and would be what I would be looking for. I actually know a guy just into Riverside county that needs to get the same size, maybe if you guys went together it would save everyone some money if you were to go new. :confused3: I know that he for sure wants new.

Anyway, contact me if you want to see what some of this hydraulic stuff would cost you.

Keep asking questions.

 

[jenkinsph]

steve,
You have received some good advice so far and Brian can help you with the hydraulic needs and changes. I would also pay attention to RDrancher who lived and worked in the area as he can offer good suggestions to find the used box blades and like me he makes his living in the dirt. Lots of good advice from the others too.

I would add that a box blade and a land plane grader scraper are two tools that I use all the time in my grading work. If you can budget to have both I think you will be in good shape to do your work. A lpgs is simply easy to operate with a shorter learning curve and will help with smoothing out your driveways and open areas.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . .
It was pretty hard to find a used Gannon here in Texas...especially a six footer. Where you're at I'd check out all of the older asphalt contractors and construction sale yards. I don't think you'll have a hard time finding one. Here's mine with manual scarifiers.
View attachment 387693

I just happened across the one I bought. It isn't nearly as pretty as yours. But it does have the hydraulic scarifiers, and the darned old thing is as tough as an anvil.

Steve, if you find an old Gannon box blade, or a ROBB from Gannon, Woods, Bush Hog or any dependable brand, don't worry about the cosmetic condition. These things are meant to work hard, and most of them were used that way. Check it to make sure nothing is broken, bent or sprung, but don't worry about it not being pretty.

And be prepared to act quickly if it's a decent price. Around here there are used equipment dealers that look for bargains and know what's a good price. I've seen several implements on Craigslist that were underpriced. Then, soon thereafter, some used equipment dealer is advertising it at a much higher price.

I missed out on a good 6' ROBB (for $350 I think) because I didn't act quickly enough.

 

[Fallon]

Just found this site and read all pages of this topic. I just moved from the city to this 25 acres in the sticks; I am new to tractors and just bought my first one, a Kubota L3400, which I got mainly for brush/fire controll. I am learning to use the brush-hog and front loader, but have found it difficult to do any decent looking grading/smoothing with the loader bucket. I know that a Gannon would work better for that so I came to this thread to get educated, before I buy the wrong thing. After reading up here, I have a better idea what size I need...looks like a 5 to 6 footer; leaning toward the 5 since my property and roads are very hard and rocky with the sub surface rocks running from fist-size to car or even house-size. The larger ones kind of determine the grade, so I am stuck with surfaces that undulate left/right as well as up/down. Maybe I could build up the bad areas with fill dirt, but that's going to take a LOT of dirt. I am old and my remaining years are no doubt short, so should probably stick to filling in the water erosion channels so that a 2WD vehicle can manage.
My tractor doesn't have a hydraulic top link; just a manual turnbuckle. It doesn't have hydraulics for operating Gannon scarrifier/rippers either; is it worth adding the hydraulics, or is it even feasible?

My l3200 (basically the same as yours) pulls my 72" king kutter box well enough. A 65" heavier box might be better, but the KK was cheap & works well. Now that my R4s are loaded I'm mostly running into power limits than traction limits.

I love my TnT setup, but you can definitely get by without it until you save up.

 

[steve a]

Thanks for the info guys, and links Jeff; I checked out Brian's prices for a 3 valve set, plus top and side cylinders with hoses/fittings. looks like about 2,000$ for the conversion, but not sure yet if that includes the sticks & linkage to operate the valves. I do have to make a mounting bracket to put the valves somewhere, but shouldn't be a problem if I can find a good spot. So $3500 to 4000$ investment including a new box.
I am guessing the third valve would be for the rippers, (if I don't get a roll-over box). Looks like consensus is for a 65 or 66" box for my L3400. I am a little unsure about the roll over box; I see that it saves me from having to put hydraulic rippers on a std box, but the side plates don't have much surface contact with the ground and I think they would sink into the softer areas between boulders, during "float" grading, leading to a roller coaster surface. I am under the impression that the standard boxes ride on the longer side plates for better control, and have seen some boxes with flat plates attached to the bottom edge. probably to keep them from sinking in or maybe just for wear resistance. When I fill in the low spots and off camber areas between the boulders, I don't want to end up scraping it all away when I go to smooth it out, and I don't think I have the feel for adjusting the 3-point on the fly, in order to get things flat and level. I have been trying to do something like that with the loader bucket, but the results of 3 days work on my 50' by 80' parking area look kinda pitiful. So, I'm thinking that the roll-over Gannon may not be the best choice for smoothing.
My neighbor has an antique Fergusson with no hydraulics at all; just a 3 point. he just drops the box on the ground and pushes it around backwards after rain storms. It catches a corner and gets stuck on a rut or rock now and then.....he just skips those spots and goes somewhere easier; seems to make him happy. The other thing is, I can't seem to twist my body around far enough to see where I am going, (the "age" thing again); if I sit where I can see, the seat safety switch trips & kills the engine, plus it takes some serious contortions to do it and still be able to push the back end of the rocker pedal with my foot (to move in reverse). I don't think it is possible for a normal person to drive in reverse and see where he is going at the same time. I have already ripped out a live 1" hose bib and hit a tree with the brush-hog tail wheel.

 

[jenkinsph]

Box blades require you to be able to see behind the tractor while traveling in both directions. If you can not make this work a skidsteer might be a better operating platform for you. I would come to grips with this before buying any thing else.

 

[bearskinner]

what is the correct width for a box blade? do you want to keep it right at the width of your tractor? I am thinking of getting one for a little BX25D Kubota, which is only about 45"s wide. I found a 42" locally, but don't know much about them, so i'm asking here. I just want something to clean up a long driveway, and spread gravel.

 

[jmc]

what is the correct width for a box blade? do you want to keep it right at the width of your tractor? I am thinking of getting one for a little BX25D Kubota, which is only about 45"s wide. I found a 42" locally, but don't know much about them, so i'm asking here. I just want something to clean up a long driveway, and spread gravel.

You might want to move this question to the Kubota board where more BX owners will see it and to keep this thread on topic.

 

[Fallon]

Just found this site and read all pages of this topic. I just moved from the city to this 25 acres in the sticks; I am new to tractors and just bought my first one, a Kubota L3400, which I got mainly for brush/fire controll. I am learning to use the brush-hog and front loader, but have found it difficult to do any decent looking grading/smoothing with the loader bucket. I know that a Gannon would work better for that so I came to this thread to get educated, before I buy the wrong thing. After reading up here, I have a better idea what size I need...looks like a 5 to 6 footer; leaning toward the 5 since my property and roads are very hard and rocky with the sub surface rocks running from fist-size to car or even house-size. The larger ones kind of determine the grade, so I am stuck with surfaces that undulate left/right as well as up/down. Maybe I could build up the bad areas with fill dirt, but that's going to take a LOT of dirt. I am old and my remaining years are no doubt short, so should probably stick to filling in the water erosion channels so that a 2WD vehicle can manage.
My tractor doesn't have a hydraulic top link; just a manual turnbuckle. It doesn't have hydraulics for operating Gannon scarrifier/rippers either; is it worth adding the hydraulics, or is it even feasible?

My l3200 (basically the same as yours) pulls my 72" king kutter box well enough. A 65" heavier box might be better, but the KK was cheap & works well. Now that my R4s are loaded I'm mostly running into power limits than traction limits.

I love my TnT setup, but you can definitely get by without it until you save up.

 

[steve a]

Box blades require you to be able to see behind the tractor while traveling in both directions. If you can not make this work a skidsteer might be a better operating platform for you. I would come to grips with this before buying any thing else.

I've heard of Skid steer, but not sure what they are; assuming they have tracks instead of wheels so you have to lock up one side to steer it. don't know how that would help seeing behind. Anyway, buying another tractor is not feasible for me. I went way over budget on the Kubota; almost two years worth of social security checks to cover it. Maybe I can rig a hand lever up to the HSD rocker pedal, so I can sit side-saddle and see behind the tractor when I am going backwards. Anybody ever heard of this?

 

[steve a]

Box blades require you to be able to see behind the tractor while traveling in both directions. If you can not make this work a skidsteer might be a better operating platform for you. I would come to grips with this before buying any thing else.

I've heard of Skid steer, but not sure what they are; assuming they have tracks instead of wheels so you have to lock up one side to steer it. don't know how that would help seeing behind. Anyway, buying another tractor is not feasible for me. I went way over budget on the Kubota; almost two years worth of social security checks to cover it. Maybe I can rig a hand lever up to the HSD rocker pedal, so I can sit side-saddle and see behind the tractor when I am going backwards. Anybody ever heard of this?

 

[jeff9366]

I've heard of Skid steer, but not sure what they are; assuming they have tracks instead of wheels so you have to lock up one side to steer it.

Skid steers have the engine in the rear; they are fundamentally designed to PUSH.

Tractors have the engine in front, they are fundamentally designed to PULL.

Skid Steers are less versatile than tractors; you made the right selection in your Kubota.

 

[jenkinsph]

Hopefully some of the Kubota owners can help with the ergonomic advice on your tractor. I have read where some of them can use their left foot to operate the treadle pedal when turned around in the seat, you might try this out. My brother had his right leg amputated below the knee early last year and physical problems can be a game changer. He hasn't been able to drive yet and I don't think he is ready for that anyway. Growing older isn't fun. Not knowing much about your physical condition I will say that mirrors, back uo cameras and other fixes can help but at any rate you need to be able to see what is happening all around your tractor.

The point about skidsteers is that you face the attachments in operation and can use mirrors to backup.

 

[jenkinsph]

Skid steers have the engine in the rear; they are fundamentally designed to PUSH.

Tractors have the engine in front, they are fundamentally designed to PULL.

Skid Steers are less versatile than tractors; you made the right selection in your Kubota.

Jeff,
Since you are sure he made the right selection in buying a tractor maybe you can suggest what he can do to address his problem. I am not a fan of skid steers myself and prefer the tractor as a platform. But it does depend on an individuals handicaps what might be more appropriate as a platform.