Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #351  
So met with the building inspector. He said the only thing he can see off the top is that the structure needs to be sheathed and not just steel over girts & purlins. I guess the wind & snow load requirements have increased the last couple years in the township where I intend to build. However he needs to look at the drawings for a few days and get back to me.
I think I recall reading about wind load pushing a building around over time, the fasteners through the steel get looser in the wood, etc. We're kinda expecting the metal siding to provide the strength to counter the wind load. It's too thin. Hence the plywood or OSB sheathing. Adds cost to the building, but it's either that or extensive cross bracing, I'd think.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#352  
I think I recall reading about wind load pushing a building around over time, the fasteners through the steel get looser in the wood, etc. We're kinda expecting the metal siding to provide the strength to counter the wind load. It's too thin. Hence the plywood or OSB sheathing. Adds cost to the building, but it's either that or extensive cross bracing, I'd think.
The inspector mentioned that doors and windows that are close to the corners don't allow for proper X-bracing is the reason for the need to sheath. He also mentioned energy code as a reason. Doors and windows need sheathing to meet energy code in terms of proper sealing.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #353  
When I used to work at the airport, large buildings with huge walls and doors, wind played havoc. One in particular, called the Two Door Hangar, had, DUH, two bi-fold doors, one on each end. If the wind was coming from just the right direction, and you opened the upwind door, it would flex the entire building and the opposite door would blow open. Then you had 60' by 20' steel door flapping in the wind waiting to kill anyone that went near it. And this was an all steel building. They ended up having to put in gussets and tensioned cables all over that thing.

Anyhow, wind load is important.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#354  
Anyone have 3 phase power? I'm now regretting installing Single Phase as opposed to 3 phase as it's looking like I'm leaning towards the Shop/House/Barndominium.

Considering I'd like to have some machining equipment, lathe, mill, etc. As well as fabrication equipment like plasma cutters & welders etc. (and possibly other old industrial equipment which can be found on marketplace quite cheaply) Along with my 5 ton bridge crane. I think it would be nice to have actual 3 phase power as opposed to a phase converter.

I know there is 3 phase power at the road, but I am assuming it's at least a $5-10k switchover. Have not called the power company on this yet, but thinking it's worth at least investigating before I build.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #355  
When I built my land, 3 phase power was running down the road, but when I asked about having it run to my building, they pretty much refused. I'm sure it's possible, but it's not like getting a normal residential meter installed, and the hurdles to make it happen where overwhelming. During the process of looking into it, I was told by several people that it's a lot cheaper and easier to have a converter to operate 3 phase equipment then to actually run it to your building. In the end, I never really needed it and 15 years later, still don't need it.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#356  
When I built my land, 3 phase power was running down the road, but when I asked about having it run to my building, they pretty much refused. I'm sure it's possible, but it's not like getting a normal residential meter installed, and the hurdles to make it happen where overwhelming. During the process of looking into it, I was told by several people that it's a lot cheaper and easier to have a converter to operate 3 phase equipment then to actually run it to your building. In the end, I never really needed it and 15 years later, still don't need it.
3 Phase has been on this road for decades, there are many farms on the road that are utilizing it.

I don't want to be in a situation where I keep finding great old 3PH industrial USA made equipment on MarketPlace for cheap and then have to convert to a 1PH motor to make use of it. And as I stated before NYS is taking away NG/LP fuels and I'd be using a Diesel generator for shop power, yuck. Phase converters are not great for a lot of 3PH equipment due to them using capacitors to generate the other legs only during motor startup.

I put in a work request with my power company to have an engineer look into it. I think it will come down to the 2-1/2" SCH80 conduit I have underground.

But talking to an electrical engineer acquaintance of mine, he states from this picture:

818iuJC.jpg


The conductor looks like at least a #2MV90 cable. Which has a .760" O.D. Which 3 of those in my conduit would look like this:

3PH-Conduit.png


One thing I don't know is what amperage that single conductor is carrying. However I do know it is carrying 7.2kV.
 
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   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#358  
One problem with 3 phase is are you going to go 120/208 or ?????
common choices are listed here;
Electrical Service Types and Voltages - Continental Control Systems, LLC
The electrician I talked to told me to get with the power company first to see if they can install and/or allow this. If yes, I will go over this with him. However, for the shop equipment I'm going to want 480V/277V. I then would need a transformer to get to 120/208. The question is these days, how many appliances can run on 208 vs 240? My plan is to go with a gas range, so the only 240V appliance I'd have is a dryer I suppose if all my radiant heat equipment is NG.

It's a good question...
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House? #359  
That would reduce the size of your needed conductors considerably. Going with the 480 3 phase, then a center tapped 480/240 transformer will provide good "residential" power.
 
   / Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?
  • Thread Starter
#360  
That would reduce the size of your needed conductors considerably. Going with the 480 3 phase, then a center tapped 480/240 transformer will provide good "residential" power.
I guess what I don't understand fully is, the run between the pole mounted primary transformer and the pad mounted secondary transformer is 7200V for the existing 240V 400A service. So I would need three conductors carrying 7200V for 3PH correct? Why would the conductors get any smaller? Since there are three they can carry less amps even if I want 480/277V 400A? That would imply the 277V single phase would be max 400A/3? As you can tell I'm no electrical engineer.

I can see smaller wires carrying the 480/277V between my meter pedestal and shop, but not the feeders to the secondary.
 
 
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