Ballast Box vs Filled Tires?

[c-and-a]

I have gotten two opinions on this subject - fill the tires, then no bother with on/off of ballast box, storage of the box, etc - basically idiot-proof...

The other, why do you want to carry the additional weight in the tires if you don't need to, especially when mowing...?

Anyone thoughts?

Thanx,
Curt

 

[Sully2]

I have gotten two opinions on this subject - fill the tires, then no bother with on/off of ballast box, storage of the box, etc - basically idiot-proof...
The other, why do you want to carry the additional weight in the tires if you don't need to, especially when mowing...?
Anyone thoughts?
Thanx,
Curt

As you state...2 different schools of thought on that subject. Personally..I DID NOT have my rear tires filled ( and my owners manual says NEVER fill the front tires..??) and I either use a ballast box.or some impliment just as heavy to offset the FEL when Im using it

FOR MY APPLICATION(s)..weighted rear tires would do nothing FOR ME and in some MIGHT be a dis-advantage. One reason I bought the "industrial tires" as compared to "AG's" is so that I dont tear up ( what little grass I have..lol) the yard anymore than is required.

I feel at some times my BB might need more weight in it ( there is just so much volumn and thats it!!) but thats only when I "shake down" a heaping FEL bucketful of soil...as I "bounce"??..the bucket to make sure a lot isnt going to roll off the heaped load...you can feel the "lightness" in the rear end...other than that...no problems.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Sully2 gave you a good answer, but allow for some expansion of it.

To use the FULL capacity of a FEL, check your loader's manual. Many will suggest you need to fluid fill AND carry a weight box. The greater the loader's capacity the more likely this is to be the case, regardless of the weight of the tractor.

If you want to mow the lawn, and are less concerned about eeking out every ounce of lift capacity of the loader, then I would say use a weight box without fluid fill.

A weight box also uses the rear wheels as a balance point and allows for more leverage by holding the weight farther back. Realize that a FEL with a full bucket is using the front tires as a fulcrum point and trying to lift the rear of the tractor so by holding the weight well behind the tractor the weight box provides a better counterbalance than fluid fill since fluid fill is closer to the the load and does not provide the same type of offsetting force. Fluid fill is nice to have, makes the tractor more compact, and is suitable for many lifting tasks, but is not enough if you really are going to push any of the higher capacity loaders. It is probably fine for the lower capacity loaders.

If you want to eek out every last ounce of lift capacity of your loader, then follow the requirements in the loader's manual. . . probably both fluid and weight.

I have fluid fill and a heavy box blade on one of my tractors. I use a weight box or implement on the the other tractor since it also has a MMM and I use it for mowing and general work.

You didn't say what you want to use the tractor for so it is hard to give a specific answer. It is a common myth that a HEAVY tractor has more lift capacity on the FEL. It is a common myth that a HEAVY tractor needs less ballast. When dealing with Front End Loaders, the whole name of the game is BALANCE.

 

[c-and-a]

Thanx folks - I knew I would get some good feedback...

Sorry for not detailing what I am doing - more mowing than lifting, and I do not anticipate stressing the lift capacity...

I think I am leaning towards a BB...thanx again!

 

[rbarker]

Thanx folks - I knew I would get some good feedback...

Sorry for not detailing what I am doing - more mowing than lifting, and I do not anticipate stressing the lift capacity...

I think I am leaning towards a BB...thanx again!

I got the weight box instead of filling the tires. Turns out that I usually have some attachment on the back like the rake or rear blade when using the loader so the weight box doesn't get much use. One thing to consider, if you need the extra weight for stability when mowing the weight box won't help because it's a 3ph attachment that will go up and down with the mmm. With the deck down the box could drag on the ground making a mess out of your finely groomed lawn. I've never felt like I needed the tires filled for my application, ymmv!

 

[FamilyFarm]

You have received good advice. Don't forget that box blades (like other implements) come in many weights. For my L5030, I really should have a 1000+ lb. BB if using as a ballast for heavier FEL loads. The $$ for a BB that size didn't make sense as I only need a med-duty BB for maintaining my driveway. I did need a heavy rotary cutter, so I spent the $$ on that. If I do really heavy loader work, I will put the cutter on and have 1150 lbs. hanging "way out" the back to balance the FEL. I'll just have to be careful because of the size of the cutter - make sure not to wipe out something with it!
My 689 lb BB is plenty for most FEL use, but if I was often doing heavy FEL work, I would need a better system. I do not have the tires filled at this point. I may do that primarily because of hills on my property, not so much to balance the FEL for heavy lifting.
Terry

 

[Volfandt]

Well paint me in the filled tires corner

I primarily mow and the FEL & BH is generally dismounted. I use the FEL quite a bit more than the BH.

The ease of mounting/dismounting the FEL and/or BH makes it so that I just pull up and add them when I need them then drop them when I'm done.
In my situation, when I work the FEL I don't have to worry about adding the BH or weight box or any other implement to offset the FEL as the filled tires do a good enough job of doing so. I've not encountered any problems w/digging nor transporting with a fully loaded FEL.

As for mowing, the BX doesn't seem to mash down the grass too bad and the grass recovers and looks pretty good by the next day.

There is a disclaimer in my owners manual that indicates that the filled tires should be "drained' whenever the BH is mounted. Now this isn't practical so what I've done is lessen the amount of fill in the tires to approx 3/5ths full. This leaves an airspace to allow for expansion for when the additional weight of the BH is added yet still adds enough counter balance for FEL work. So far I've not had any problems living on the edge like this

Theres been good advice given on useing a weightbox or boxblade, good luck

Volfandt

 

[Goog]

I just filled my tires this weekend on my L3400. What a difference. I bought the adapter kit from Napa and filled them with a garden hose at the 12:00 position then added 20 psi air to my R4's. Wish I had done this months ago. I normally leave my 5' box scraper on the back which is pretty heavy but the filled tires took almost all of the bounce out of the tractor. The reason I filled the tires is because I have been moving large round bales of grass hay and it felt pretty light in the back end. Now much more secure feeling. Also when I have my post hole auger on I don't have to worry so much about bucket capacity because the auger has so little weight. I still may build my own ballast box someday but for now this works for me. Brian

 

[JLoaf]

I filled my rear turf tires half full (as opposed to 3/4 full) on my B2710. I figured this added about 160#/tire.
This took a lot of bounce out of the tractor and it feels much more stable on bumpy and uneven ground. And improves traction in some situations.

On my L3830, I use a 550# box blade. Last year I added about 400# of suitcase weights to the box blade for additional ballast and this was a great improvement - and pretty cheap. I can easily and quickly remove the additional weights if I need to. This also helps with traction when pushing with my FEL.

 

[3RRL]

Filled tires are great. They added weight and much traction as well as stability and less "bounce" for a more "solid feel" in general. For general light duty loader work they work just fine. I filled all 4 tires.

Bob Skurka makes the best point illustrating the difference of a ballast vs loaded tires in this paragraph ...

A weight box also uses the rear wheels as a balance point and allows for more leverage by holding the weight farther back. Realize that a FEL with a full bucket is using the front tires as a fulcrum point and trying to lift the rear of the tractor so by holding the weight well behind the tractor the weight box provides a better counterbalance than fluid fill since fluid fill is closer to the the load and does not provide the same type of offsetting force. Fluid fill is nice to have, makes the tractor more compact, and is suitable for many lifting tasks, but is not enough if you really are going to push any of the higher capacity loaders. It is probably fine for the lower capacity loaders.

...that being a matter of balance in relation to the axles. That's why the tractor feels like the rear end wants to tip up with a full heavy bucket. I always mount my 1,000lb. boxblade when doing loader work. Plus I use it in conjunction with full bucket and drag dirt at the same time.

 

[Bob_Young]

I got both, but I use the ballast box as a carryall. When heading out for some tree trimming or cleanup of a deadfall, it's a great place to put the chainsaw, sledge hammer, wedges, chains, fuel and whatnot. The rest of the time it's off the tractor.

For FEL counterbalance, filled tires are much more practical for me. The tractor is much more maneuverable and it'll fit and turn in tighter spaces with nothing hanging off the back. That's a big advantage of a CUT. Why give it away by locking yourself into always having to carry an implement or the box? For really heavy lifting the box or implement can be added, but 98% of the time it's not needed

The first time you forget that it's there and back into Mama's Buick, you'll wish you'd filled the tires.
Bob

 

[BenA]

A ballast box would be handy for carrying things in as well as the extra wt. Hadn't thought of that. My dealer loaded my rears...said they always do with a FEL and didn't offer me the choice. However, I purchased a box blade, primarily as counterweight initially, but found how useful it is for moving dirt around. My 7800 does not dig very well in the hard soil around here, so the box blade helps by breaking it up first. If I need more weight hanging off the rear, I put one to four 5 gallon buckets of gravel on top of the box blade. I figure hanging weight off the back takes some of the stress off the steering when moving full buckets of dirt or gravel. Loaded tired does nothing to take stress off the front axle. Maybe that's not all that important, but it seemed like a good idea to me. Lots of ways to go about it, and what works for you is the right way.

 

[Nuru]

I got both, but I use the ballast box as a carryall. When heading out for some tree trimming or cleanup of a deadfall, it's a great place to put the chainsaw, sledge hammer, wedges, chains, fuel and whatnot. The rest of the time it's off the tractor.

For FEL counterbalance, filled tires are much more practical for me. The tractor is much more maneuverable and it'll fit and turn in tighter spaces with nothing hanging off the back. That's a big advantage of a CUT. Why give it away by locking yourself into always having to carry an implement or the box? For really heavy lifting the box or implement can be added, but 98% of the time it's not needed

The first time you forget that it's there and back into Mama's Buick, you'll wish you'd filled the tires.
Bob

Good Point. I got the box, and I recently got my tires filled. And the big thing about the filled tires is that I have some much more stability on the slopes in on my mowin' part of the property. I have one spot where the grade is approximately 22 degs, and that scared me big time to even go up until i got the rears filled, now it does not seem so bad at all - won't try it sideways though!

 

[Nuru]

Stress onj the front axle, that brings up a question, should one fill all four or just the rears - Dealers in my area and the places where you can get a tire filled all say no to front fills, especially on the smaller CUTs like mine. Anyone else know why a lot of folks shy away from front fills other than potential front axle/steering mechanism issues?

 

[Nuru]

3RRL, you got all 4 filled - the locals, the local dealers, and the places where one can get tires filled all said no to front fills -I was wondering, are front fills for really heavy loader work or more stability on slopes?

 

[Sully2]

3RRL, you got all 4 filled - the locals, the local dealers, and the places where one can get tires filled all said no to front fills -I was wondering, are front fills for really heavy loader work or more stability on slopes?

Not sure exactly WHY...but my owners manual for a B3030 says NO WAY to front filling of tires...

 

[Micg]

I just filled my tires this weekend on my L3400. What a difference. I bought the adapter kit from Napa and filled them with a garden hose at the 12:00 position then added 20 psi air to my R4's. Wish I had done this months ago.
Brian

Hi Brian,
reading my manual says that rear tires should not be fully filled but only 75% should be water & then air is compressed.
The correct position should be either 10:00 or 2:00

The reason given is that if the tire moves over a rock, then air will act as a cushion.

regards
Micg

 

[Mavrik02]

In my case I can lift the full capacity of the FEL with my 60" BB on the rear. With the BH on a full bucket won't even make the back end light (even when I bounce the bucket). Also my land is mostly woods with lots of wet springs...filling the tires in addition to all of the other weight wouldn't work out well for me.

 

[3RRL]

3RRL, you got all 4 filled - the locals, the local dealers, and the places where one can get tires filled all said no to front fills -I was wondering, are front fills for really heavy loader work or more stability on slopes?

Nuru,
I filled the fronts for several reasons:
-to maintain proper weight distribution when carying or pulling an implement because I have 4 wheel drive and want to get as much traction as possible with the fronts.
-for more tire stability (reduced flattening) under loads of heavy FEL work
-for more over-all stability, rigidity and less "bounce" during all operations and working on slopes.
-for overall added weight to the tractor thus less bearing load on axles as opposed to "hanging" extra weight on the tractor for the same reasons.

I used a tractor ballast guide Ballast guide to help attain proper weight distribution. The guide refers to ballasted weight (static) but I figure the theory should still apply when filling tires...I know it's a little different than hanging weight on, but weight is weight and benefits from adding weight should be along the same line. There's also a section that tells you how to determine what proper traction is and how to achieve it. Regardless how you do it, the whole idea behind adding weight is to acheive traction and balance.
There's an interesting example of adding 100lbs in front of the axle.
"Adding ballast to the bracket on the front of a tractor reduces the weight on the rear axle. For example, adding 100 pounds on the front increases total tractor weight by 100 pounds but may increase the weight on the front axle by 150 pounds and reduce the weight on the rear axle by 50 pounds."

Table 1. Front and rear weight distribution.
Tractor design / Implement type Front Rear
Two-wheel drive / Trailing implement 25% 75%
Two-wheel drive / Semi-mounted implement 30% 70%
Two-wheel drive / Mounted implement 35% 65%
Front-wheel assist / Trailing implement 40% 60%
Front-wheel assist / Mounted implement 45% 55%
Four-wheel drive / Trailing implement 55% 45%
Four-wheel drive / Mounted implement 60% 40%

It's obvious many will dispute front tire filling for fear of hurting the front gear drive train, but I doubt many will dispute the advantages gained by having more front wheel drive traction that is desired and beneficial when working the tractor. Personally, I use the heck out of my 4 wheel drive option...I'm in 4 wheel drive all the time. I have it so why not use it to it's fullest extent? To me, it's much like a buddy who buys a brand new truck but doesn't want to load anything it or take it hunting for fear of scratching it?
I WANT to use it. If it breaks... well then it breaks and I'll fix it....that's just me. Filling the fronts gives me that much more traction (undesputible) and also for the reasons stated above.

 

[fishpick]

I have a BX24 - new - and don't plan on getting the tires filled...
The family JD 4310 has the rears filled for FEL work and STILL needs a BB.

Just as an informational FYI - in my recent tractor purchasing endeavours... I was given a really informative brochure from the JD dealer about ballasting (title was something like "How smart is a box of rocks") - It had a lot of good info - you might want to check it out. If I recall it was within there they talked about the science between a BB and filled tires.