B6100DT - Current Situation..

Anonymous Poster · Oct 10, 2000

I this out already, perfectly, but then my #$%&@*#!!!!! computer crashed, and I lost my message.

I went and saw the tractor today -- it has 1980 hours on it, and it is dinged and dented up. However, it does have a hydraulic snow/landscaping plow with sufficient downward hydraulic pressure to lift the front of the tractor up off the ground. It also can be angled hydraulicly. It has a hard top cab, with a windshield and little windshield wiper and plastic zip up sides. There is one problem that in my opinion is very severe -- the dealer now tells me the 4WD engagement lever is "stuck" in 4WD mode. This obviously will ruin the transfer box/transmission if I drive it on pavement. How big of a deal is this to fix? Is this a common problem? Do you think someone broke it, and continued using it in 4WD mode, thus damaging internal components? Please keep in mind that the dealer wants $3900 for it (including the plow and cab). What should I do? Thanks for your help!

Also, there is no front PTO -- I thought B6100s had front PTOs...

TM

glennmac · Oct 10, 2000

TM,

I'll respond to just one of your points. On the stuck 4wd, just ask the dealer if it was stuck when he acquired it or after he acquired it. If it was stuck before, then you are taking the risk of what you fear--that the previous owner drove it for perhaps a very long time in 4wd. If it got stuck while at the dealer, the risk would be much smaller.

Glenn

RickM · Oct 10, 2000

TM,
One thing to try is using the snow plow like you said to lift the front wheels off the ground, then try to move the 2W/4W drive lever. I've read that others with FEL's use the same technique. On the other hand, if the dealer has tried all the tricks and it is truly 'stuck' then I would not purchase without that being fixed. The price is good. If you only want to plow snow it's a steal (stuck 4wd and all), if you want to do other things then yes being able to shift in and out is a must. The front PTO on gear B6100's was an electric clutch add-on for mid mount mowers and perhaps front snowblowers. Hope this helps and good luck. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Oct 10, 2000

In 1995, before I bought a new B7100, I considered a rental unit one of the dealer had; a B7100 with 800 hours on it and a month left on the warranty. I noticed that it was in 4WD on the lot and the salesman told me they just put the rental units in 4WD and leave them there all the time. So, I guess I can't really say how much damage, if any, would be done by it being stuck in 4WD, but not on my tractor. I'd tell them that had to be fixed before I'd buy it.

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Oct 10, 2000

TM
SINCE I HAD A B6000, I CAN ONLY GUESS THE 6100 IS CLOSE.
THE 4WD SHIFT WAS JUST A SMALL LEVER THAT WAS LOCATED ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE TRANSMISSION CASE.I BOUGHT THE TRACTOR USED AND WAS ALREADY IN 4WD BUT WOULD NOT SHIFT TO 2WD. I FOUND OUT THAT THE SHAFT (CONNECTED TO THE LEVER) WHICH WENT INTO THE TRANSMISSION HAD NO PROVISION FOR LUBRICATION. THE SHAFT WOULD RUST INSIDE THE CASE. A BAR ON THE LEVER WOULD NOT MOVE IT. AFTER SEVERAL DAYS OF PENATRATING OIL IT CAME LOOSE AND WAS FINE.
THE B6000 WAS A GOOD SMALL PUSH, PULL TRACTOR. THE PLOW WAS TOO SHORT TO REMOVE SNOW CLEANLY. THERE WAS ALWAYS SNOW THAT CAME OFF THE TOP SIDE OF THE PLOW AND ALWAYS LEFT A TRAIL TO CLEAN UP AFTER. ( IT WAS MESSY)
I PAID $3200 WITH THE HYDRO PLOW. THIS ONE WAS IN VERRRY GOOD CONDITION. NO DENTS, RUST. ALL ORIGINAL.
IF YOUR LOOKING FOR A GARDEN TRACTOR ON STEROIDS, IT'S GREAT.
GOOD LUCK
FRED

Anonymous Poster · Oct 10, 2000

Correction -- The lever is loose.. Just like its connected to nothing -- NOT seized.

I really appreiciate all your replies!

Thanks.

Kelvin · Oct 10, 2000

Front PTO: On these GEAR DRIVE tractors (B5100D&E/B6100D&E/B7100) the front electric PTO was an option. I not sure if the front PTO was even available on the newer hydrostatic drive B6100s and B7100s.

4wd Stuck: I believe that I would first confirm that it is stuck in 4wd rather than 2wd. If it is stuck in 2wd then the lever may be broken on purpose to hide a malfunctioning front drive system.

4wd Lever Operation: In normal operation the 4wd lever goes over a little ball-type apparatus as it is shifted from 4wd to 2wd (and vice-versa). It is common for the ball to rust and make it difficult to get the 4wd lever over the ball if the lever isn't used very often. This has happened to me and several others on this forum; a little oil and patience will solve this problem. Focusing on the "easy & cheap" problems first, I offer the following suggestions to help determine if the problem is with the shift lever itself (rather than more expensive internal problems)...

It sounds like the lever may have been stuck (as described above) and someone possibly used excessive force and broke the lever. In any case, look for the ball near the lever's pivot point and see if you are...

(1) moving the lever over the ball when you move it, or
(2) keeping the lever on one side of the ball as it moves about.

Related Question: "When you move the lever around, are you actually moving the shaft that goes into the transmission?"

Once you determine that (1) the lever is properly attached to the shaft that goes into the transmission and (2) the lever's range of operation is normal (as determined by the ball) then you can begin to get the estimates on breaking down the tractor. For what it's worth, I have never heard of of shifting problems beyond the "stuck & stubborn" ball.

Hope this helps,
Kelvin

WVBill · Oct 11, 2000

Rick:
on the B6100 front PTO, you said that it was an electric clutch add-on.

My B6100D has a front PTO that drives the hydraulic pump for the Kubota loader. I'll have to look at it when I get home to see how it is mechanically connected to the engine but my impression is that it's just kind of a forward extension of the crankshaft. I do know that there's no clutch control for it - it just turns whenever the engine does.

bpence · Oct 11, 2000

If I read your post correctly, it doesn't sound to me like you're real sold on this particular tractor. I'd be a bit skeptical of used equipment on a dealer's lot that they haven't gone through and done a good mechanical check on. When I bought my "experienced" B7100 last year I had to turn over a lot of rocks before I found the piece of gold I was looking for. Keep in mind, there are always a lot of good compact tractors out in the world and you have to feel right when you put your money down to buy one.

Bob Pence

RickM · Oct 11, 2000

WVBill,
I must profess that I'm no expert on the B6100's. I have a B6100HSD that is hydro. I have a mid-pto on my machine, but no front. My dealer showed me on the side where they would tap in to the hydraulics for a FEL if I had one. I suspect that since yours is a front hydraulic pump used for your loader it would be working anytime the engine is running (no 'on/off' switch). The electric front pto's I'm familiar with are like an air conditioner clutch on an automobile. They were belt driven affairs designed to apply power to mid mowers on the gear models. Sorry for any confusion.

Kelvin · Oct 11, 2000

Hey Bill,
I believe that Rick was right in his description of the front PTO. But in reading your posts it sounds like there is more than one kind of front PTO for the B6100.

If you look again at the picture of my B7100 (for the benefit of others it is under the digital photography posts) you'll notice the large box-shaped unit on the front of the tractor. That "box" is a protective cover over the front electric PTO that is essentially a clutch mechanism identical to the clutch mechanism used on automotive air-conditioning compressors (as Rick indicated). There is a switch on the dash to turn the PTO on and off (which, in my case, turns the mid-mower on and off). The wire you see in the picture is routed to the PTO; there is another wire for the lights.

Kelvin

Bird · Oct 11, 2000

Kelvin, how old is your B7100? I was wondering whether that electric front PTO was an optional piece of equipment, available only on the geared models, or only on older, etc. My 1995 B7100HSD didn't have it, but my Cub Cadet AGS2130 (riding mower) did.

Bird

Kelvin · Oct 11, 2000

Bird,
I believe that my B7100D is somewhere between a 1978-1981 model.

The following is what I believe to be the difference between the B7100D/E (gear drive & front PTO) vs the B7100HSD/E (hydrostat tranny w/mid PTO).

I believe that all of the older gear models had to have the "Optional Front Electric PTO" if they wanted a mid-mower (there is no mention of the front PTO in the tractor's owners manual...only the mower manual). This system avoided the complications of not having a live PTO (allowing you to stop, start & change gears without stopping the mower). The largest front-PTO driven belt drive mid-mower was 48".

With the introduction of the hydrostatic models such as yours, they added the mid-PTO in lieu of the front PTO. As you know, the hydrostatic transmission gives the effect of a live PTO (mid and rear). I suppose the mid-PTO allowed more power/torque to be delivered to the mid-mower thus the mowing width was increased up to 60".

Was the front PTO available on the hydrostat model B7100s? I doubt that it was from the factory. But it seems that it would be simple enough to add one. It is simply an shaft and pulley mounted as an extension of the crankshaft pulley. As mentioned before, the PTO pulley is has an automotive style electic clutch that controls whether or not the belt receives power from the spinning crankshaft. I don't have a good picture in the manual. If there is interest I'll take a quick photo of the PTO assembly and attach on the next post.

Kelvin

WVBill · Oct 12, 2000

It would appear that there are several, apparently un-documented configurations for front PTOs in the late 70's - early 80's B6100/7100 series.

I searched my "original equipment" Kubota Tractor B5100D/E - B6100D/E - B7100D Operator's Manual (all 36 pages) and could find no mention of any front PTO. Nor is there any indication of a front PTO in the Parts Manual.

There is mention in the B6100D sales brochure of "Front and rear PTO shafts."

I also have a sales brochure for a B6000 of the era that lists a front PTO speed of 2,700 (same as engine RPM) and an Optional equipment Electromagnetic front PTO clutch.

Welcome to the world of Kubota documentation, I guess.

Bill

Bird · Oct 12, 2000

Kelvin, fortunately I don't need a front PTO; doubt that I'll ever use the mid-PTO, but I was curious about it. Thanks.

Bird

bpence · Oct 13, 2000

TheMatrix....just curious how things worked out with the B6100.

Bob Pence

Anonymous Poster · Oct 14, 2000

Still deciding... Im considering many options, such as buying a larger used tractor, or a new equivalent of a B6100. Thanks for your concern

.

maxter · Mar 2, 2005

I just read your reply about the electric pto for the 6100dt. Do you have any idea on how to get on other than a dealer, such as an aftermarket?
thanks for the info