B3200 smoke-out on cold start

[Teikas Dad]

Is it best to start with the throttle set at idle or bump it up a bit? My 3200 smokes like crazy for a few seconds when I start it, but thats with the throttle up a little bit. I'm holding the glow plugs on for 15 to 20 seconds then cranking it.

 

[NH-Rob]

I agree with holding the key in the glow position after start up. It seems to help. I know my b3200 does not start any where near as good as the b7510 I had previous to it. I put a block heater on it at the end of last season but have yet to even plug it in. Using one takes preplaning and i tend not to think of it in time. I would be interested in learning more about adjusting the ignition timing.
Rob

 

[NH-Rob]

I agree with holding the key in the glow position after start up. It seems to help. I know my b3200 does not start any where near as good as the b7510 I had previous to it. I put a block heater on it at the end of last season but have yet to even plug it in. Using one takes preplaning and i tend not to think of it in time. I would be interested in learning more about adjusting the ignition timing.
Rob

 

[Chilly807]

The trouble with adjusting injection timing on a new tractor is getting the dealer to go along with it. Some will, most I suspect won't. It's not a do-it-yourself job unless you're a competent diesel mechanic. I work with fuel systems for a living, I'd tackle it myself if I needed it done but mine works well the way it is.

Sean

 

[jim_wilson]

I agree with holding the key in the glow position after start up. It seems to help. I know my b3200 does not start any where near as good as the b7510 I had previous to it. I put a block heater on it at the end of last season but have yet to even plug it in. Using one takes preplaning and i tend not to think of it in time. I would be interested in learning more about adjusting the ignition timing.
Rob

Holding the key in the glow position for a long period of time doesn't really seem to make much difference on my tractor. It still smokes like crazy and runs badly for at least 30 seconds. I'm going to try a block heater and see if that makes any difference, having the engine warm when starting just makes life easier on it anyway so I'll give that a try.

I was just looking at my B3200 service manual and there is a section in there about adjusting the injector pump timing - but it's by no means very clear (at least not to me). When I hit the dealer to buy the block heater I'm going to check in at the service department and try to get some idea of how amenable they are to adjusting the timing. I would try it myself - I'm pretty handy, but typically when tackling something new I would prefer to have good instructions instead of jumping in blindly.

I seem to recall there being a thread here on TBN a while back about how to do the adjustment - anybody recall that?

 

[Chilly807]

I think the type of pump that Kubota uses on the compact tractors uses shims under the pump to change the timing. I'll check my WSM when I get a chance.

Sean

 

[jim_wilson]

I think the type of pump that Kubota uses on the compact tractors uses shims under the pump to change the timing. I'll check my WSM when I get a chance.

Sean

That's what the manual says. I know I recall reading in some other threads about people adjusting the timing by using shims also. It just wasn't very clear from the Kubota manual exactly how this was done. Maybe it would be clearer if I took a look at the actual tractor.

 

[Chilly807]

Generally, the thicker the shim under the pump, the later the timing. The technical part is being able to check what the timing actually is, simply changing it is fairly simple.

Sean

 

[jim_wilson]

Generally, the thicker the shim under the pump, the later the timing. The technical part is being able to check what the timing actually is, simply changing it is fairly simple.

Sean

Ahhh - ok. So that's the piece of the puzzle I would have to get figured out.

 

[roostersmasher]

It has been mentioned and it is what I do to my B3200. I use one of those small orange Torpedo heaters. I set it about 5 feet from the tractor, aimed at the underside from the side. It works GREAT. She fires right up with very little smoke and hardly any chugging. I keep the tractor in an unheated garage. I am not trying to warm the whole garage but heat directly to the underside of the tractor. I hold the glow plugs on for a minimum of 30 to 40 seconds.

I realize there are times we want to just go right out there and fire it up. But it is just to violent of a start up. While the Torpedo heater is warming her up, I might putz around and check the tractor over a bit, greese etc...

 

[leonz]

Roostersmasher,

You and I think alike. I use the salamander almost everyday to heat up the truck when I do not heat up the firewood processor. it sure beats the heck out of smelling the stink of the engine exhaust and seeing all the water vapor exit the tail pipe everyday.

 

[leonz]

Ahhh - ok. So that's the piece of the puzzle I would have to get figured out.

The Nippondenzo design is different than the Robert Bosch design wherein the direct drive Bosch indirect Injection pump is turned slightly before it is secured to the engine housing to change the injection pump fuel rate.

 

[Bigfrank]

The Nippondenzo design is different than the Robert Bosch design wherein the direct drive Bosch indirect Injection pump is turned slightly before it is secured to the engine housing to change the injection pump fuel rate.

I just bought a new b3200 before Christmas and it was doing the same thing. Lots of white smoke spitting and farting for about 30-40 seconds. So I brought it back told them I was not happy with it running like that and the bad vibration it had. So we readjusted the injection pump timing. It is very easy to to just takes time. Half an hour or so. So have to advance the timing so to do this u have to remove the injection pump and remove a shim. The shims are marked with holes in the top corner. I left only one shim in that had 3 holes in it. I can't remember the thickness of this one. But ever since I did this no smoke at start up and the vibration has come down. It's all about this emission control crap they have to meet. Now with the way it's running its sounds more like a diesel and I was told by a few mechanics that I will have full hp that the engine is capable it have. They same there fine because they have to. But if u get a mechanic on your side it's simple to do.

 

[wmonroe]

I just bought a new b3200 before Christmas and it was doing the same thing. Lots of white smoke spitting and farting for about 30-40 seconds. So I brought it back told them I was not happy with it running like that and the bad vibration it had. So we readjusted the injection pump timing. It is very easy to to just takes time. Half an hour or so. So have to advance the timing so to do this u have to remove the injection pump and remove a shim. The shims are marked with holes in the top corner. I left only one shim in that had 3 holes in it. I can't remember the thickness of this one. But ever since I did this no smoke at start up and the vibration has come down. It's all about this emission control crap they have to meet. Now with the way it's running its sounds more like a diesel and I was told by a few mechanics that I will have full hp that the engine is capable it have. They same there fine because they have to. But if u get a mechanic on your side it's simple to do.

How many degrees did you advance the timing?

 

[Bigfrank]

How many degrees did you advance the timing?

I was at 18 now 24. So about 6-7 degrees

 

[jim_wilson]

I stopped into my dealer today and talked to some people in the service department about the smoky-crappy starting on the B3200 - and they seemed to be fully informed on what was going on - but the guy said specifically that they cannot adjust the injector pump timing - they've been told by the local factory rep not to touch anything or the EPA would be all over their ***.

So that avenue looks like a dead end for me. If I want to adjust the pump timing I'm going to have to do it myself. Which is not a big deal - I'm very mechanically handy, I just need to make sure I know what I'm doing.

It looks like the injector pump is on the right hand side of the engine (looking at it from the driver's seat) - do you remove the whole pump from the engine and just remove the shim?

When the weather gets a little warmer and I catch up on all my projects I may give this a try.

I picked up a block heater while I was there and installed that this afternoon. Easy enough - probably only took about 45 minutes. The B3200 takes the screw in block heater - I just had to run to Autozone and pick up a 17mm hex to remove the plug. Other than that it was very straightforward to install.

Maybe I'm just used to the BX23 I used to have - but the B3200 has always seemed like it just wasn't running "right" to me.

 

[jim_wilson]

I was at 18 now 24. So about 6-7 degrees

I seem to remember somebody in another thread saying they advanced their's about 8 degrees - so it sounds like you're right in that range.

Is there any way to verify what the timing is after the change is made?

 

[Bigfrank]

I seem to remember somebody in another thread saying they advanced their's about 8 degrees - so it sounds like you're right in that range.

Is there any way to verify what the timing is after the change is made?

Its easy to do. 1st. Remove the aircleaner ***. 2 remove the air intake manifold. 3 disconect all 4 injector lines from the pump and the injectors. 4 remove the stop seliond on the side of the injection pump( turn key on while doing this it disengages it) 5 remove the 6 bolts that hold the pump on. 7 remove side cover on injection pump to release governer spring ( watch how u unhook it so when u put the pump back down u hook it up right) 8 pull pump out remove shims leave only one with 3 holes on corner. Then reasemble in reverse order. The b3200 does not have to be bled just keep cranking till it fires on its own. The way u check your timing is by doing a spill test. With injection lines off turn engine over by hand till diesel spills out of #1 port on pump ( closest to the rad) there is a plug bottom right behind the hydrulic couplers remove it and look at the markings that tells were your timing is now at. I think i got everything. Good luck its not hard to do.

 

[avc8130]

I really need to look into this. My L45 is a nightmare starting cold. It shakes, rattles, smokes and really fills the pole barn fast with a nasty haze.

Are there any gaskets or anything that need to be replaced when playing with the injection pump timing?

ac

 

[Bigfrank]

I really need to look into this. My L45 is a nightmare starting cold. It shakes, rattles, smokes and really fills the pole barn fast with a nasty haze.

Are there any gaskets or anything that need to be replaced when playing with the injection pump timing?

ac

Not on the b3200. Not sure on the l45