B3200 smoke-out on cold start

[jim_wilson]

I bought a B3200 earlier this year - after having a BX23 for about 7 years. One thing I've noticed with the B3200 is that the thing smokes like crazy on startup when it's cold. I don't recall having this problem with the BX. Both tractors are kept in an unheated fully enclosed garage. Neither of them have (had) block heaters. I had started the BX in REALLY cold weather - down below 0 F , and got some smoking out of it - but it would start and fire on all cylinders pretty much right away - the B3200 coughs and sputters and finally kicks in after 45 seconds or so - and smokes like crazy during that time - to the point where it fills up the garage with a nice diesel haze.

When I bought the tractor I asked about a block heater - and the dealer said I didn't need one. Based on the experience with the BX I figured he was probably right - but now I'm thinking I need to put one in before everything in the garage gets coated with a layer of diesel soot.

Any other suggestions as what might help this issue? I've never felt like the B3200 has started as easily as the BX did. Is all of this a side effect of the retuning of the B3200 engine that I've read about here a number of times? Is this related in any way to the B3200 vibration issues I've read about here a number of times? Any tuning I can do to the engine to try to improve the starting and/or vibration?

If the thing is going to do a smoke out every time I try to start it - it might have to start living outside - which is something I really don't want to do.

 

[k0ua]

I wonder if your glow plugs are working properly..I am not familiar with the B3200, but does it have a glow plug timer and associated circuitry, ? or does it have manual glow plugs, where you are the timer? and if so are you "glowing" long enough before starting.?

James K0UA

 

[jim_wilson]

I wonder if your glow plugs are working properly..I am not familiar with the B3200, but does it have a glow plug timer and associated circuitry, ? or does it have manual glow plugs, where you are the timer? and if so are you "glowing" long enough before starting.?

James K0UA

I was wondering that too - but I was keeping the glow plugs on for about a minute. I don't think they heat up any more past that.

 

[k0ua]

You could do some measurements. Measure voltage on the glow plug rail while they are energized and see what the voltage is. There will be some voltage drop, but I would be concerned about anything less than 10 volts on the rail. Another thing you can do, is remove the glow plug rail and put on ohm meter on each glow plug to the engine block, My Kioti manual says its glow plugs are .43 ohms each.. Of course that would be cold. I would assume the Kubota plugs would be something similar. Of course if one or more of the plugs were open then that would explain it. These tests would not be that hard to do, worth a shot.

James K0UA

 

[leonz]

About your B3200 the timing has been advanced slightly to reduce the exhaust emmisionsto make the EPA happy.

They did not want to bother with installing a catalytic muffler to avoid the problem entirely and forever by leaving the factory engine settings alone.

EDIT- your BX23 engine was sold before the EPA requirements were changed and you will notice quite difference when both machines are idling i.e., you will be able to set a cup of coffee on the BX and not on the B3200 hood when it is warm and at low idle.


I use a kerosene fired salamader/space heater to warm up all my vehicles, tractors, firewood processor almost the year round and it makes world of difference.

The purchase of a space heater will cost you less than a block heater installation-my first space heater lasted me 14 years before I had to replace it, they last along time.

The other issue is having your dealer come by and reset the fuel pump settings on the indirect injection engine BACK TO THE ORIGINAL FACTORY SPEC to stop the smoke issues this machine to solve the smoke issue AND THE ROUGH RUNNING IDLE issues forever.

 

[leonz]

The older Kubotas- the ones imported directly from Nippon/Japan had a nichrome wire heat indicator for the Nippondenzo glow plugs. The Kubota tractors assembled here which use the imported Kubota engines and transmissions MADE IN JAPAN have US supplied relays in them if I remember correctly.

The nichrome heat indicators are a better way to guage the heat created by a glow plug in my opinion.

 

[SPMMD]

The smoke on a very cold startup and initial ruff ideal smoothing out over 10-15 seconds is normal for a B3200 under very cold startup, this is minimally improved if you fire the glow plugs and extra couple of seconds before starting. Last year some new owners posted videos with lengthy discussions. Take home message: big smoke on startup completely clearing is normal on B3200, when very cold

 

[jim_wilson]

About your B3200 the timing has been advanced slightly to reduce the exhaust emmisions
to make the EPA happy. They did not want to bother with installing a catalytic muffler to avoid the problem entirely and forever by leaving the factory engine settings alone.

EDIT- your BX23 engine was sold before the EPA requirements were changed and you will notice quite difference when both machines are idling-I.E. you will be able to set a cup of coffee on the BX and not on the B3200 hood when it is warm and at low idle.


I use a kerorene fired salamader/space heater to warm up all my vehicles, tractors, firewood processor almost the year round and it makes world of difference.

The purchase of a space heater will cost you less than a block heater installation-my first space heater lasted me 14 years before I had to replace it, they last along time.

The other issue is having your dealer come by and reset the fuel pump settings on the indirect injection engine BACK TO THE ORIGINAL FACTORY SPEC to stop the smoke issues this machine to solve the smoke issue AND THE ROUGH RUNNING IDLE issues forever.

A space heater is just a solution that will not work for my garage. The space is too large and it is (currently) uninsulated. A block heater is much better solution if that will help the smoking. What I'd really like to do is get the smoking and crappy cold start down to a minimum if I can. If that means setting the engine back to before-the-EPA-decided-to-screw-with-it specs, then that is an option I will likely pursue.

I did notice quite a bit of difference between the B3200 and the BX23 - the BX just seemed smoother overall. The B3200 when running at PTO speed seems a lot rougher too.

I'll do the glow plug check as soon as I get a chance. In the meantime - I'll be looking at what's out there for block heaters as the first step in finding a solution. My main problem is that the smoke is BAD - it literally almost fills the garage - and were talking about a 28x44 open floor plan barn really. It's just ridiculous.

 

[jim_wilson]

The smoke on a very cold startup and initial ruff ideal smoothing out over 10-15 seconds is normal for a B3200 under very cold startup, this is minimally improved if you fire the glow plugs and extra couple of seconds before starting. Last year some new owners posted videos with lengthy discussions. Take home message: big smoke on startup completely clearing is normal on B3200, when very cold

View attachment 302483

So do owners of older Kubota 4 cylinder tractors have this problem? If so then maybe it's just inherent in the 4 cylinders. But I've got to believe that there is something else at play here since there is such a drastic difference between my old BX and the B3200.

I've started the BX in sub-zero weather - with no block heater (it never had one) - and I didn't have this much of an issue.

It was about 30 out this morning when I went to start the thing - and same issue: massive smoke out.

 

[jim_wilson]

Looks like fixing the injection pump timing can have a big effect on the problem:

New Kubota B3200 Cold Start.wmv - YouTube

 

[leonz]

So do owners of older Kubota 4 cylinder tractors have this problem? If so then maybe it's just inherent in the 4 cylinders. But I've got to believe that there is something else at play here since there is such a drastic difference between my old BX and the B3200.

I've started the BX in sub-zero weather - with no block heater (it never had one) - and I didn't have this much of an issue.




Hello Jim,


You can safely use a salamander where it will only be about 5 feet from the B3200 and it will heat up the engine crankcase, the cooling system and the transmission within 15 minutes or so and then it will roll over quickly. In general a lot of folks who have machines outdoors throw a heavy tarp over their machines and then use a space heater to keep all the heat under the tarp when the machines are out of doors.

EDIT: space heater is facing the rear of the machine blowing the heated air under the rear axle and tarp; this is done quite often with skid loaders where the rear access door is opened fully with the engine and hydraulic systeme exposed to the heat where the trap covers the entire machine and it also heats the radiator at the same time.


In but one of my examples:
I heat up my firewood precessors engine and hydraulic tank after about a half hour to fourty five minutes of running the space heater-25 gallon system with an air cooled Honda engine. I have the space heater about five feet from the front bumper of the truck and after 30-45 minutes its deiced and starts with no dificulty.


You have to remember the mule is nothing more than a heat sink and it will shed heat quickly when it is shut off quickly too. I used to heat my old truck up with a space heater even though it had a block heater plugged in the year round and it helped me keeep it running for 13 years before i took it off the road.

 

[kuboman]

Looks like fixing the injection pump timing can have a big effect on the problem:

New Kubota B3200 Cold Start.wmv - YouTube

A blockheater is an easy install and just an hour or 2 before starting plug it in. Does yours fire right away when cold and then smoke or do you need to crank it some. I would wonder if your glow plugs are working correctly. And if they are then yours may benefit from advancing the timing. And yes it is advance not ******. They tend to ****** the timing on these engines for emission which gives smokey starts.

 

[jim_wilson]

A blockheater is an easy install and just an hour or 2 before starting plug it in. Does yours fire right away when cold and then smoke or do you need to crank it some. I would wonder if your glow plugs are working correctly. And if they are then yours may benefit from advancing the timing. And yes it is advance not ******. They tend to ****** the timing on these engines for emission which gives smokey starts.

I'm going to try the block heater just because in general diesels start easier when they've got one. I've read the instructions before and I believe it's not a bad install.

It pretty much starts right away - I turn the ignition - let the glow plug stay on for 45-60 seconds - then crank it. I don't see it having much of a problem starting - but it's obviously not firing on all cylinders right away - that takes another minute or so. So yeah - it fires right away and then smokes like crazy. The guy in the video link I posted sounded like he was having pretty much the same problem - and you can see in his video that he gets a little puff of smoke when he starts it after fixing the injector pump timing , but it's not bad at all.

What I'm seeing is a cloud that fills up the garage - and the guy in the video says he was seeing the same thing.

I'm going to have to look up the specs and procedure on fixing the pump timing and give that a try.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I only have Kubota B 26 and RTV 900 but I don't use the glow plugs more than 10 seconds and they fire up within 2 revolutions of the engine and don't smoke other than initial puff of black smoke at startup. I have cranked both at 18 F which is as cold as it has ever got here and they both crank right up with no lugging or excessive smoking just like they do on a 90F day without using the glow plugs. If your plugs are on a timer it could be timing out and getting cold again before you crank if you are burning for a minute. That is way too long to use them. 5-15 seconds would be plenty at 30F to 0F I would think. Anything lower than that and you need a block heater for the oil and then same 15 second max hit on the glowplugs.

 

[beckmurph]

Spit, sputter, miss, smoke and rough idle on first start up of the B3200 is my experience. It will do it in cold or warm weather. Mine stays in the garage, unheated, the same as the BX25 and the b2620.
The BX and the b series both started just fine in cold weather. It was mentioned on this forum about holding the key in the glow plug position after starting. This helps alot, and the B3200 runs good on startup if you hold use the glow plugs after startup.:2cents:

 

[kuboman]

I would check each glow plug independently. My 3200 starts real good with little smoke. If glowed for 60 seconds it would start like summer time.

 

[radair]

The block heater on my B3000 makes a world of difference. Rough, smoky start in cold weather without it (but not as long as your 45 seconds), smooth starts in any temps with it on.

Please let me know what you learn with the timing issue

 

[tc18ny]

My brand new b3200 has the same behavior. Smoke some on startup and runs choppy for about 10 to 15 seconds. The dealer mechanic told me this is normal for this engine. I asked specifically about this before having it delivered as I did alot of research into it. Mine isn't terrible but I definitely notice it when it's cold. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot you can do about it unless you want to get into adjusting fuel delivery. I'm not going to on mine. If it gets worse, I'll call the dealer.

 

[Chilly807]

The B3200 in the video starts very much like my L3400 does, a quick puff of grey smoke then it is essentially clear exhaust. Any diesel will give that initial puff, the fuel pump delivers a maximum fuel charge until the engine starts, then the governor cuts it back to maintain an idle. A turbocharged engine with air-fuel limiter is slightly different. Smoke that continues after the engine starts is indicative of poor combustion which can in some cases be caused by incorrect fuel timing, or other mechanical issues.

I've been using the block heater before almost every start this winter. There's no harm in using it, it's easier on the engine to be warm when starting and I save idle time warming it up before using it.

Sean

 

[dtherrien]

I have a b3300su that starts and smokes alittle on the initial start-up of the day. It stays in the garage and only use the glow plugs for 5-10seconds. It will stumble for about 5 seconds or so and then smooths out. I bump the throttle just off idle when starting.
If your machine is running smooth through out the rpm range....I wouldnt worry about the smoking at start up.