ATV Trail

bmac · Mar 6, 2005

Hopefully, we will be breaking ground soon for our new home on 12 heavily wooded acres. My son has been asking for a go-cart / ATV for at least the past 5 years and we did not have the room for him to ride nor the space to store one. We promised him that some day, we would be building on some acreage and we would get something then. Well, that time is nearing and I need some advice.

Our plan is to have a riding trail (which we may also want for walking) encircling about 6 acres with an access trail to the rear of the house. I thought it would be prudent to have this done by the crew that is cutting the driveway and clearing the building site. I'm assuming I'll have the big trees removed by the same folks who are hauling off the timber from the building site and the stumps can be burned with the other stuff from the homesite.

Once they do the rough clearing of the trail, what is the likely procedure from there? I'm concerned about erosion initially. And, while a rough trail might be fun on an ATV, it wouldn't necessarily be good for a walking trail. I'm thinking I could smooth things out with my little boxblade but it seems like something should be done to stabilize the surface. Then I'm thinking that, no matter what I do to the surface, any significant ATV traffic will undo anything I might attempt.

On the attached drawing (crude, I admit) I've sketched out kind of what I'm talking about. The purple is the driveway, the green is the clearing for the house, the blue is a small creek at the rear of the propery. The red is kind of how I envision the trail.

The property slopes from front to back and there are a few ravines on the property some of which are probably 10-12 feet deep. Of course, this brings up another issue - bridges to cross the ravines or grade the slopes a little. Obviously bridges are better for walking while driving down and into and up out of the ravines would be more fun for the ATV

So, for those of you who have done something like this, I would appreciate any advice you may have to offer.

Thanks

Bird · Mar 6, 2005

I don't know anything about go cart tracks, but when my brother bought 10 acres; solid timber, brush, vines, etc.; so much so that we had a hard time walking through it to find the boundary stakes, and only one side fenced, we cleared a track, not exactly straight along the edge of the boundary, but close to it, avoiding any big trees, and we simply did it ourselves with an axe and chain saw. He cut everything so close that he got the chain into the dirt quite a bit. In fact, he ruined a sprocket on his new Stihl chainsaw before we were through. The dealer said he couldn't warranty it and my brother told him he didn't expect warranty; that the cost of the repairs was the cheapest way to do what he wanted to do. And we, too, had some pretty deep and steep ravines to cross. We built no bridges, but did rework some of the slopes slightly so we could drive both my B7100 Kubota and his Kawasaki Mule along that loop around his property. So, I think it would have made a fine go cart track, too, although we didn't make it wide enough for racing; i.e., wide enough for one to pass another.

db2 · Mar 6, 2005

"any significant ATV traffic will undo anything I might attempt."

You're right about that. I have made many trails on my property in the bush and through and across wet areas. We use the trails for walking, biking, skiing and travel them with tractor, ATV and Jeep. To build the trails I just cut the trees, bladed then brush hogged the trails each year. I put in a couple of culverts where I filled wet areas. Within a couple of years the woody growth stops and grasses (weeds) take over. Makes for nice access to the property. Of course ATV use is going to leave it's impact especially if the rider likes to tear things up.

rdln · Mar 6, 2005

Sight unseen, i would go with Bird's suggestion. You should be able to weave safe trail with out knock down anything too big to handle yourself.

They're smallest bulldozer might have an 8 foot blade which might be too big.

And it would be good father-son bonding experience, ya know out their with tractors and chainsaws being manly-men (Insert Tim Allen Grunt here)

Also they might bring a chipper on sight for the building sight clearing, the wood chips make a good nature trail topping.

bmac · Mar 6, 2005

Bird, Dave and Steve,

Thanks for the replies. I think the chainsaw method would certainly allow more precision to the trail design and protect against erosion. I hate to admit it here, but the truth is I haven't used a chainsaw in probably 30 years or more and only had limited experience with one then. And, at this point in my life, I'm not sure I want to assume the liability of re-learning the proper use of what I consider to be a very dangerous piece of equipment (particularly when used by someone like me). So, I guess I either go the quick and dirty bulldozer method or hire someone with a chainsaw to cut the stuff my bush hog won't cut. I think my son and I could do the manly bonding stuff clearing out the cut trees and grooming the trail with the tractor.

As far as the width of the trail goes, I was actually thinking a 10-12 ft wide path (? road) anyway to allow safe passing of the ATVs and to give the kids a little room for error in their driving. Therefore, I don't think the dozer would be a problem in that respect. But, as I stated before, I'm just concerned about the surface condition after the dozer has plowed down all of the vegetation and the tracks have chewed up the surface.

Well, now I guess I'll have to come to terms with the fact that I've admitted to all of my TBN friends that I'm afraid of chainsaws. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif If I'm not careful, I might spill the beans and admit that I don't like the smell of diesel fuel. Doh!!! I hate it when that happens.

db2 · Mar 7, 2005

( I was actually thinking a 10-12 ft wide path ) 

Most of my trails are that wide and some were made with a dozer. After the dozer was done you could drag something (a tree, old bed springs, harrow or whatever you have available) behind your tractor to smooth out the dozer track marks. I used a spuce tree and it worked well. My dozer operator was a real artist and he was able to smooth and contour the trail and banks the way I wanted him to. I was surprised how fast the greenery came back.

Regards

rdln · Mar 7, 2005

10-12 ft wont hurt considering that vegetation will grow outwards after all that extra sunlight comes down and might close the trail in some without maintenance.

Dont be ashamed about the power tool thing, in your profession you need all your digits. I have a friend that is an orthopedic surgeon, I am surprised he does the yard work and other projects he does.

DUMBDOG · Mar 7, 2005

I am afraid of chainsaws also. In addition I am afraid of any and all of the other power tools that I use. The day that I am not afraid of them is the day that I will quit using them.

Bird · Mar 7, 2005

( I'm afraid of chainsaws )

Me, too. I'll use'em, but I'm scared of'em, and I figure anyone who gets over his fear of them is likely to get hurt bad by one. Some might say it's respect for them instead of fear of them, and I won't disagree, but I figure sometimes there's a very fine line between respect and fear. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

bczoom · Mar 7, 2005

bmac

A couple thoughts and questions.
You mentioned having timber taken out for the building site. Are you going to have the whole thing logged? If so, the timber company will likely bring in a dozer to make some trails. What they may want to get logs out may be a different plan than what you have pictured. You'll want to walk the property with them to determine and agree upon where the trails will go.

I would avoid putting a trail over stumps cut at ground level. After a period of time, the dirt will erode and the stump will become a huge bump in the trail. These won't be safe for riding and will be a problem when you're grading with a blade.

The trails that you pictured are pretty straight. For an ATV trail, I would propose something with more turns. Riding straight trails can get boring relatively quickly. Kids will compensate by increased speed which is obviously more dangerous. I would also consider some cross trails (top to bottom of the picture provided) to provide more areas. Maybe connect the trail to the driveway at the bottom of the picture as well. The driveway can then be part of the trail system.

How wide are the ravines? Personally, I drive the ATV's through the ravine. For walking, I made a 2' wide bridge for the span. A bridge big enough for an ATV can get pretty pricy.

For grading, the box blade will work fine. The big thing is to grade so no puddles remain as they will create pot holes.

What kind of ground do you have (clay, stone...)? My trails that are primarily clay don't erode to badly from traffic.

Brian

Panache · Mar 7, 2005

Go to your local build store - Lowes, HQ etc. Buy 5-10 rolls of flagging tape in atleast 2 different colors. Mark the proposed trail now while you can still see thru the woods. Remeber when using flagging tape it is about $.03 per yard. Use a lot. If you decide later to use a dozer he will know where you want your trail. I use orange for trails, blue for trees to remove, and red for dangers. I have a bluew/ white for plants to be moved at a later date.

AlanB · Mar 7, 2005

Bmac, just realized you are there in Newnan. I ride a couple of times a year at a bicycle place there with our motorycle Trials Group.

Anyway, if you want to have ATV trails, I suggest a good pair of the Fiskars gear type shears available at Wally World for just under $20 and some time spent in the woods with your son. Maybe two pairs.

The marking flag comment is right on, as well as the time of year.

We were out cutting and clearing trails yesterday and we have cut a fairly substantial number of trails just like this.

I read where you said 12 foot though and that is more of a "road" than a trail in my opinion.

Most ATV trails I am familiar with are just a bit wider than the ATV's. and make fine walking paths.

Kind of misses the point somehow if you take out all the lumps and bumps to ride your All Terrain Vehichle over.

Anyway, you could go to the bicycle area there and see some trails, or you are always welcome to come up to our area, (about 7 hours) and I will show you how we did ours here.

Have fun and spend the time with your son. I think you will find that by carefully planning your route at this time of year, you can get through with an absolute minimum of chainsaw work assuming you do not need it the 12' width.

rlcowder · Mar 7, 2005

As an avid atv rider I can give you a few hints. First how old is you son and what size atv are you planning to get. If you get him into a midsize utility 4x4 or larger I would let him make his own trail. He would be able to find a path throught the woods with enough clearance for the atv easily. If you want to make a trail for walking I would recomend not letting him ride the atv on it. Now let me tell you why. I live next to a large community park and the field next to my yard I mow every year and had a real nice walking trail on it. One winter riding my Honda Rincon on it and it's a mess. Mud everywhere, no more grass and starting to get ruts. I also am a member of a atv park (1500 acres). They make alot of trails by having one or two guys go for a slow ride and mark it out. Then they have a work day and a few more people go on the marked trail and move a couple low hanging branches and things and its done. After a week or two a nice trail has formed. I kind of like leaving the obstacles because it adds some technical riding fun. If you son has a couple friends I would bet you wouldn't have to do a thing except let them ride.

bmac · Mar 7, 2005

Brian,

 Are you going to have the whole thing logged? 

No, just the driveway, 1-2 acres for the homesite and anything that might come from the trail, should we use the dozer.

 You'll want to walk the property with them to determine and agree upon where the trails will go.


Good idea. Thanks

 The trails that you pictured are pretty straight. For an ATV trail, I would propose something with more turns. Riding straight trails can get boring relatively quickly. Kids will compensate by increased speed which is obviously more dangerous. 

Excellent idea. I've got pretty much a blank pallette and can make it as serpentine as I want.

 How wide are the ravines? 

Can't tell yopu for sure. I bought this property last summer but haven't really spent much time out there. I know they vary considerably in width and depth. In some areas, they are steep and deep enought that no vehicle is going to climb out without some modification to the slope. Of course, whether or not the trail would cross in one of these steep areas, I'm not sure yet.

A bridge big enough for an ATV can get pretty pricy.


You think I can get Harv and the Texas crew to come out and do a bridge like they did for Don? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 What kind of ground do you have (clay, stone...)? 

By and large, we have hard red clay around here.

Thanks for the tips and feedback. You bring up some excellent points.

bmac · Mar 7, 2005

Alan,

 Bmac, just realized you are there in Newnan. I ride a couple of times a year at a bicycle place there with our motorycle Trials Group 

What's the name of the place? Give me a call the next time you are in town.

 I read where you said 12 foot though and that is more of a "road" than a trail in my opinion. 

Agree. It seems wide to me too. However, there is one detail that I didn't go into that makes me want to make it wider than a trail. My 7 year old daughter is also asking for a 4-wheeler. A couple of months ago, she went with me to the Bass Pro Shop Outdoor World and when we found our way to the ATVs, she kept saying "Look Daddy, here's one my size!!" Well, anyway, should she get anything to ride on the trail (road, track, freeway, or whatever we call it), I would like to have plenty of room for big brother to to safely pass her rather than run over her.

 you are always welcome to come up to our area, (about 7 hours) and I will show you how we did ours here.


Thanks. I appreciate the tips and comments.

bmac · Mar 7, 2005

rlcowder,

 First how old is you son and what size atv are you planning to get. 

He'll be 14 in May. Was thinking about something in the 250 cc range, utility, 4wd. Although he is a little small for this (technically he should not have anything bigger than a 90 cc, as I understand the guidelines), I want something he can grow into. However, safety will be a major factor in our purchasing decision and I might get something smaller.

 I would let him make his own trail. He would be able to find a path throught the woods with enough clearance for the atv easily. 

Good idea. "OK, boy, there's the woods. Go make yourself a trail." I like that. Very easy on the old man. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 Mud everywhere, no more grass and starting to get ruts. 

Yeah, I was concerned about that.

 After a week or two a nice trail has formed. I kind of like leaving the obstacles because it adds some technical riding fun. 

Well, as this will be his 1st ATV (he does ride a friend's 90 cc on occassion) I don't want anything too technical.

 If you son has a couple friends I would bet you wouldn't have to do a thing except let them ride. 

I like the way you think. Thanks for the reply.

AlanB · Mar 8, 2005

http://www.singletracks.com/php/trail.php?id=602

Probably not the best advertisement for us as motorycle riders as most of the comments say that we destroyed the place.

But there it is.

Are you riding?

Any activity that you can do with your kids is wonderful. I ride Trials and it works well for us, but 4 wheelers, hunting, fishing, sports or whatever it is all good.

slowzuki · Mar 8, 2005

Nothing to be embarassed about being afraid of saws, my neighbour and I were clearing some skid roads this weekend for some logging I'm doing and I heard his saw stop. I shut mine off and look over, he points to his chaps and strings of the cloth that binds the chain up were hanging out!

He has more hours on a saw than me but just caught the tip on a 2" sapling and it kicked back into his leg!

AlanB · Mar 8, 2005

I bet that made a believer in those chaps out of him!

Moon · Mar 9, 2005

Our first trails were made by the folks logging the place. They left a mess, but the trails worked out okay. The last two times I hired in a dozer. One 8' blade, and last year he had moved up to one with a 9' blade. Worked out great. We marked the trail before the dozer got there, then once he was done (one day) we mainly had to pick up the bigger rocks and cut roots out of the ground that were sticking out. Then just ride the trails with the ATV and that helped pack them down nicely. We have ravines also, and we'd just pick the best place to cross ...no bridges. Since we have ATV's we don't walk the trails as much as I thought we would, but like has been mentioned ATV's will make ruts and doesn't make for the smoothest walking path. I'm slowly adding gravel to the hills, to slow down erosion. Using the dozer made a much better trail than I could have by slowing driving thru it with my ATV. My property just didn't lend itself to that ...to rough. The dozer made trails where we could not even walk before, and it does it very quick when compared to doing it with a chainsaw or ATV.

Moon of Ohio