Any septic system pros out there?

[Tractor Seabee]

A friend of mine used to do tank pumping. He said he needed at least a 6-8" opening to get his stiff pumper hose into the tank. The hose has to go all the way to the bottom. For an adequate inspection procedure a manhole size opening is required. He said on older tanks in order to do the certified inspection sometimes they had to remove to whole tank lid if constructed prior to the requirement for manholes. Your MD codes must be different than out here in the peoples states on the west coast. Out here the ordinances require pumping and inspection every 3 years whether they need it or not. That is heavily ignored but catches up when you sell your property as a pump-out and inspection is required as part of the seller disclosure process. If you have an original certification for a 2 bedroom house and you have bootlegged another BR or two; then a new permit and complete new installation compliant with current use and codes all at the sellers cost. Oh for the good ole days when your house was your castle.

Ron

 

[ultrarunner]

I pulled the septic permit for my home and it says 3-4 bedroom home.

No one had every seen a permit like this with bedrooms being 3 or 4.

Called the installer from back in 1977 and said that is just how we did it back then in Thurston County.

I would have 5 bedrooms except one of the "Bedrooms" has windows that do not open and was told it had to remain this way for it not to count as a bedroom... if that makes sense?

Best I can tell is should alterations be needed... I'm looking at a full blown mini sewage treatment plant with pumps and oversite... and I can't even guess what this would entail...

I've been having it pumped every 24 months and so far so good.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I pulled the septic permit for my home and it says 3-4 bedroom home.

No one had every seen a permit like this with bedrooms being 3 or 4.

Called the installer from back in 1977 and said that is just how we did it back then in Thurston County.

I would have 5 bedrooms except one of the "Bedrooms" has windows that do not open and was told it had to remain this way for it not to count as a bedroom... if that makes sense?

Best I can tell is should alterations be needed... I'm looking at a full blown mini sewage treatment plant with pumps and oversite... and I can't even guess what this would entail...

I've been having it pumped every 24 months and so far so good.

Ultra,
I think most of the counties around Puget Sound have about the same ordinances and codes which are all based on the Uniform or International Codes for sanitary systems. We are so progressive out here that a lot of the country is still in a catch-up mode with us. I swear WA is trying to outdo CA.

Ron

 

[Claytonfarms]

We are building a new house and the updated codes, 2013 codes require pumps, valves, lots of stuff I do not want to deal with. The county let us get the permit early in2012 since the property is all woods and the nitrogen will help the trees.

We had the same bedroom ordeal. Actually the septic is rated for 3 -4 bedrooms or upto 8 people. My wife and I are going to live there with guests occasionally, no kids. Our system is most likely over sized but I do not want problems.

By the way I talked to the tank supplier when I purchased the risers. He told me that they cast the tanks with manholes and not 6" holes so that an inspection can be done. Seems that it is hard to pump the tank with the suction hose down a 9' long pipe! Who would have thought.

 

[bcp]

Why septic pumps? Gravity doesn't work all the time? Pumps always work?

Bruce

 

[ultrarunner]

Ultra,
I think most of the counties around Puget Sound have about the same ordinances and codes which are all based on the Uniform or International Codes for sanitary systems. We are so progressive out here that a lot of the country is still in a catch-up mode with us. I swear WA is trying to outdo CA.

Ron

I'm thinking you are not too far off and it came as a surprise how similar Washington and California are.

The one thing I really liked was I-747 which limited assessment increases... and then it was struck down.

I swear about half the people I meet in Washington have ties to California and a lot of those with Southern California.

In the nearly 10 years since I bought... the changes have been huge... ever increasing buffer zones, run off ordinances, prohibitions on livestock near critical areas... etc., plus up zoning... when I bought the I could have built 3 homes and now it is limited to the one I have...

Still a very beautiful part of the country that suits me just fine and having great born and bred Washington neighbors is wonderful!

 

[ultrarunner]

Why septic pumps? Gravity doesn't work all the time? Pumps always work?

Bruce

I know very little... my understanding is the new designs have holding tanks, sand mounds, dosing pumps, aerators and power backup in some cases plus monitoring that requires an ongoing contract with a certified company to assure year round verification and compliance... last I checked... new simple gravity systems were just about extinct and some of these installs were pushing 50k plus the contract.

I asked about sewer service because it exists in places... best I can understand is with the up zoning for less density... public sewer service will never happen.

 

[JamesHW]

From an article in the Baltimore Sun from a little over a week ago (bolded part mine):

A grandfathering policy was established by MDE allowing any property owner who obtains a septic system construction permit for new construction or additions prior to the effective date of Jan. 1, 2013 to be exempt from the requirement to install the BAT component, according to the county health department. In addition to receiving the on-site sewage disposal system permit by Dec. 28, the system itself must be installed within one-year of the date the permit is issued.

It would seem the rush did not apply since you got your permit on time.

Always interested in septic systems as I have a 60 year old tank serving my old farmhouse in Upstate NY which I need to dig up to inspect (and likely need at least a revamp of the leech field) as well as planning for a system for the second house we want to build. Our situation is very different as the property is very sandy, pretty much as deep as you dig.

 

[Dutch445]

clayton i do not understand the reason for the outlet pipe being tied into the
concrete manhole cover. the cover is just that, a manhole cover used for
future inspection/pumping. it looks like an attempt to use the upper portion as
a vent?
wouldn't there be an outlet on the side of the tank that then heads to the d box?
and i have not seen vents at that side of a tank. i have seen "t"s on the inlet pipe
between the house and tank that vented up above ground, but never past the tank.

i think i'd get a new manhole cover, or a riser with elevated cover and outlet the tank
out of it's normal outlet hole with a straight piece of pipe and be done with it.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Why septic pumps? Gravity doesn't work all the time? Pumps always work?

Bruce

newest technology that are considered more environmentally friendly embraced in a lot of the new regulations we see in Northern US states and Canada require the use of a pressure dosing system (not a gravity fed system) so pumps are required PLUS high micron filters to keep solids out of the field, plastic field chambers, etc...

Total material cost (tank, pump, piping, chambers, filter, fittings, cement, etc...) runs an installer where I am about $3,600 for a 4 bedroom home that meets all the new reg's.

 

[tcreeley]

When we had our tanks installed- the official design called for an above grade design because of poor drainage in the clay soil. The tank outlet and leech field were set on back filled gravel. Luckily the house was high enough so that drainage was fine and I did not need a septic pump installed. I have never heard of water washing into the septic tank from the sides. That would alarm me. - Septic tanks that float?- Ours up here are made of cement- they are never moving! Good luck with all of this.

 

[aczlan]

Septic tanks that float?- Ours up here are made of cement- they are never moving! Good luck with all of this.

If the tank is empty and the ground is saturated so that you have water all around the tank it is very possible.

Aaron Z

 

[lilranch2001]

very many floating home foundation barges are made from precast concrete, and hope to HE double hockey sticks they float.
You don't fill that septic tank up with water and you have high ground water watch how fast it will pop out of the ground

 

[Claytonfarms]

To answer most of the posts I could not get to:

Our permit was issued on Dec 14, 2012 so we had until Dec 14, 2013 to install the system. The county did give everyone until Jan 1 2014 to have the system inspected. I am assuming they had too many inspections and not enough inspectors.

The new system has aeration pumps, level alarms, effluent filters, requires a monitoring service and costs close to $18,000 before the monthly monitoring fee. All this to help lower nitrogen output into the Chesapeake Bay, while farmers can pay a fee and dump all they want on the top soil. I am not knocking the farmers but there has to be a better way. The guy behind us has 20 cows I am sure they produce more waste than I do but the cows do not need a septic system.


As you can see I removed all the previous pipe from the tank. I made up 2 pipes with tees for the inlet and outlet, acquired 2 risers, covers, sealer etc. I was planing to install this weekend but it is snowing now and the high for the weekend is 18 degrees. Burr.


I have no idea why it was installed this was to start, the correct way is easier, cheaper, and I am sure will last longer.

I did find the septic codes for our county online and I have no idea how any of it passed inspection. I intend to redo the install per the code with lots of pictures.

I have seen tanks float, once I was on the eastern shore of Maryland after a hurricane, there were septic tanks and burial vaults all over the shore line. High ground water, loose backfill and sandy soil do not mix well. Never pump your tank in the rainy season!

When the hole was open, we had 8 inches of snow then 2 days later rain for a day and 50 degree temps. I had water running out of the ground 2' below the surface and 3' deep around the tank. I do not know how much water is needed to float the tank but I pumped the water that was around the tank into it and it is 1/2 full now. Hopefully it stays in place.

 

[Dutch445]

The new system has aeration pumps, level alarms, effluent filters, requires a monitoring service and costs close to $18,000 before the monthly monitoring fee. All this to help lower nitrogen output into the Chesapeake Bay, while farmers can pay a fee and dump all they want on the top soil.

not sure i caught these details in the original post, but now you're talking about a fully engineered system, nothing standard about it!
(been there, done that, but with a 2nd pump tank that took the effluent from the septic tank and pumped it uphill to a drainfield
on the high side of the property) coincidentally that property i had was in the chesapeake "watershed", although 300 miles away!

 

[buickanddeere]

If you can work it into the drainage system. Having the grey water diverted from the septic tank will extend the service life . Bacteria killing soaps form showers, sinks and laundry degrade breakdown. Salt from water softeners don't make a septic tank work better either.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

If you can work it into the drainage system. Having the grey water diverted from the septic tank will extend the service life . Bacteria killing soaps form showers, sinks and laundry degrade breakdown. Salt from water softeners don't make a septic tank work better either.

At least run the gray water through a grease trap unit, grease is a septic tanks worst enemy. We did this way back in the 50s when systems were more primitive than they are now. My folks lived there for 20 years and never had to pump out the tank, but cleaned that grease out every year.

Ron

 

[buickanddeere]

How does grease get into the grey water drains ? We never pour grease down a drain.

 

[John White]

When I installed our septic system, I got the permit and did it myself. I worked for a septic co that installed systems. I was a private contractor and did the backfilling and dozer work. I seen plenty of questionable things. When I installed mine I wanted a gravity system. The health dept. was trying to make every instillation go to the pressure system with holding tanks, alarms and all the bells and whistles. I insisted on a gravity system. Which they agreed to. We had a wind storm come through here a few years back and knocked all the power out for over 2 weeks. You should see all the mess in these peoples houses that had the pressure systems. I installed the septic system for my son and another property I own and I insisted on gravity system. (I know in some places they wont work) Every time the inspector inspected then he said I did a much better job than the licensed installer. After the Co. I was working for went out of business I built up a septic pumper truck and got my license and started pumping. I have seen a lot of questionable instillations that were approved by the health dept.

 

[buickanddeere]

Gravity always works. Simplicity is best.