Another Generator guestion
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QRTRHRS
Elite Member
I have a Generac 6500 watt (8500 peak demand) construction generator that I used at our last place more than a few times. I think the longest was three days.
Noisy and a gas pig but it got the job done. In order to have enough circuits, I wired in a 10k transfer switch but we were careful with our loads. With oil heat, we had plenty of power for our well pump, lights, the microwave and our computers and TV because often as not, we lost power but not cable.
With the main being in our basement under our bedroom, I had to run wire the 70 foot length of the basement into the garage. When in use, I wheeled the gen set out into the weather (not that I liked it that way) and shut the garage door.
My wife could handle the startup and manual switch over but not moving the gen set.
Now, a man I used to work with had a nice setup. He bought a generator powered by a VW diesel and set it up in a prebuilt utility shed along with a 275 gallon oil tank. With the exhaust ducted to the outside, the shed contained the noise very well. The whole setup was contained and out of the elements.
While working for an electrical contractor awhile back, I helped install a few Generac self contained sets. I think the biggest was 25kw. They were all propane powered Onan engines and could be programmed to start and self test monthly. The automatic transfer was pretty smooth. Nice set ups if you have the money.
One other setup worthy of mention though I cannot recall the money involved was using a surplus gen set once owned by Verizon I think it was. Powered by a vertically mounted five cylinder Audi diesel engine, the unit might have been 3x3 or 4x4 foot square and eight foot tall give or take. Originally used in one of those substations, it was designed for minimal footprint.
I do not recall where the man picked it up or how much power it generated though I think it was substantial because he had set it up for his business.
Noisy and a gas pig but it got the job done. In order to have enough circuits, I wired in a 10k transfer switch but we were careful with our loads. With oil heat, we had plenty of power for our well pump, lights, the microwave and our computers and TV because often as not, we lost power but not cable.
With the main being in our basement under our bedroom, I had to run wire the 70 foot length of the basement into the garage. When in use, I wheeled the gen set out into the weather (not that I liked it that way) and shut the garage door.
My wife could handle the startup and manual switch over but not moving the gen set.
Now, a man I used to work with had a nice setup. He bought a generator powered by a VW diesel and set it up in a prebuilt utility shed along with a 275 gallon oil tank. With the exhaust ducted to the outside, the shed contained the noise very well. The whole setup was contained and out of the elements.
While working for an electrical contractor awhile back, I helped install a few Generac self contained sets. I think the biggest was 25kw. They were all propane powered Onan engines and could be programmed to start and self test monthly. The automatic transfer was pretty smooth. Nice set ups if you have the money.
One other setup worthy of mention though I cannot recall the money involved was using a surplus gen set once owned by Verizon I think it was. Powered by a vertically mounted five cylinder Audi diesel engine, the unit might have been 3x3 or 4x4 foot square and eight foot tall give or take. Originally used in one of those substations, it was designed for minimal footprint.
I do not recall where the man picked it up or how much power it generated though I think it was substantial because he had set it up for his business.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
schmism;1534856 Sounds like a good alternative. Let us know how it does on fuel use.[/quote said:
More thoughts-
I have been looking hard at an Inverter type Generator to deal with running some of my sensitive electronic equipment. Most Inverter generators are also more fuel efficient due to the way they control the speed to match the load. But they are $800-$1000 more expensive... that will buy a lot of fuel. It was pointed out by my generator dealer that a $75-$150 Uninterpretable Power Supply will clean up the power for electronic equipment so I can save money and get the cheaper generator. Hmmm... more things/options to think about. Especially since I was considering a UPS for some of the electronics anyway.
I have been looking hard at an Inverter type Generator to deal with running some of my sensitive electronic equipment. Most Inverter generators are also more fuel efficient due to the way they control the speed to match the load. But they are $800-$1000 more expensive... that will buy a lot of fuel. It was pointed out by my generator dealer that a $75-$150 Uninterpretable Power Supply will clean up the power for electronic equipment so I can save money and get the cheaper generator. Hmmm... more things/options to think about. Especially since I was considering a UPS for some of the electronics anyway.
Lloyd_E
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Doc Bob,
No problem with cold weather starts. During our power outage a few weeks ago it was -10c or 14f. It started up 2nd pull- (first pull - didn't have it turned on).
Lloyd
No problem with cold weather starts. During our power outage a few weeks ago it was -10c or 14f. It started up 2nd pull- (first pull - didn't have it turned on).
Lloyd
bdeboer
Platinum Member
BobRip
Elite Member
Jim, a couple of thoughts that I have not seen here. How deep is your well? I have a 330 foot well and the 4 KW generator would not start it. I ended up with an 8 KW and it does OK. My 5 KW is marginal on starting the well.
You refrigerator will need to run more than a few hours a day. Mine typically run 50% of the time during normal usage. So figure on 12 hours a day. I put my generator away from the normal living area so I can barely hear it in the kitchen/family room. I can hear in the bedroom, but I don't run it after bedtime, so no problem. The Honda's are much quieter, so they would be a good choice.
Good luck.
You refrigerator will need to run more than a few hours a day. Mine typically run 50% of the time during normal usage. So figure on 12 hours a day. I put my generator away from the normal living area so I can barely hear it in the kitchen/family room. I can hear in the bedroom, but I don't run it after bedtime, so no problem. The Honda's are much quieter, so they would be a good choice.
Good luck.
Good point on depth of well taking more power to get all that water moving. My well is in the 175-200ft deep range and it only has a 1/3 hp motor on it. I have been looking at a 6500 watt generator.. so I should be all set. I tried to go with a smaller 3000 watt inverter type... but if the refrigerator/ well pump and a few lights are on at the same time... then that is over the limit, especially for startup.
Mine is new and I have been monitoring it, runs about 30% of the time.. which helps. It is the startup current in the fridge that is killer, running current is not too bad.
I was looking at the Honda Inverter model, it is enclosed and has very low dB (59) rating, clean power, fuel efficient and is very tempting... just not the $3800 price tag.
jaybrad
Gold Member
We run the important things in our house (water pump, furnace, lights, cable VOIP modem, wireless router ) on a Generac 4500XL. We bought in 1998 on what was day 5 of no power following an ice storm (took 5 more days for power to be restored). Seems like it was ~ $1,200 at the time, but we didn't have any other option. I've seen them for < $1,000 since.
This has been a great unit and has about 300 hours use (I keep a spreadsheet so I know when to do maintenance). Seems like it used about 4 gallons for 10-12 hours of use. Maybe a touch more, but it's pretty fuel efficient. It's also not all that noisy. A bit louder than one neighbor's Honda generator, but lots quieter than another neighbors Coleman unit.
We backfeed it through a 220 outlet in the garage, but do unplug our chest freezer and the hot tub.
I always add Stabil whenever we get gasoline, that way I don't have to worry about it going stale in the the generator, lawn mower, or whatever.
It would be hard (impossible) for me to justify the cost of one of those big units on a concrete pad, etc. We just don't lose our power all that often - and when we do, this unit is the perfect size.
Good luck.
) on a Generac 4500XL. We bought in 1998 on what was day 5 of no power following an ice storm (took 5 more days for power to be restored). Seems like it was ~ $1,200 at the time, but we didn't have any other option. I've seen them for < $1,000 since.This has been a great unit and has about 300 hours use (I keep a spreadsheet so I know when to do maintenance). Seems like it used about 4 gallons for 10-12 hours of use. Maybe a touch more, but it's pretty fuel efficient. It's also not all that noisy. A bit louder than one neighbor's Honda generator, but lots quieter than another neighbors Coleman unit.
We backfeed it through a 220 outlet in the garage, but do unplug our chest freezer and the hot tub.
I always add Stabil whenever we get gasoline, that way I don't have to worry about it going stale in the the generator, lawn mower, or whatever.
It would be hard (impossible) for me to justify the cost of one of those big units on a concrete pad, etc. We just don't lose our power all that often - and when we do, this unit is the perfect size.
Good luck.
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
Cottonhawk
Gold Member
We have a Onan 20 kw whole house propane generator supplied by a 500 gal propane tank. This generator is set up to operate automatically when the power goes out and shut off when the power comes back. Very nice set up.
Cotton
Cotton
dmccarty
Super Star Member
When I was trying to figure out if the DR generator would work with our well pump I spent alot of time trying to figure out the pump HP and how much power it needed.
Then the old CFL light bulb slowly turned on and got bright.
I just checked the circuit breaker and our well pump is on 20 amps. Figured if the generator can produce 30 amps of power then it should run the well.
The real question is why did it take me so long to go check the panel to figure out the power requirements.....
Later,
dan
Then the old CFL light bulb slowly turned on and got bright.
I just checked the circuit breaker and our well pump is on 20 amps. Figured if the generator can produce 30 amps of power then it should run the well.
The real question is why did it take me so long to go check the panel to figure out the power requirements.....
Later,
dan
firefighter9208
Platinum Member
If you'll look in a North Tool catalog they have a handy chart that shows the power requirements of most items. Including the start up wattage and running wattage.
Or just look at it here online : Portable + Emergency Generators Buyer's Guide - Generator Wattage Chart | Northern Tool + Equipment .
BTW, we have a Generac 5500W/8500 Surge that we use during power outages. I backfeed through a 30 AMP breaker into the breaker 200 Amp box. I cut off the main breaker and all 220 breakers and fire up the generator. I do have to manage the refrigerators (we have 2) and freezer so that they don't all come on at the sime time, but it works well.
Most of it's use has been building barns and fences. I used it to run a battery charger the other day to charge the battery on a borrowed trencher. I had parked the trencher further from the shop than I had an extension cord and the generator needed to run anyway. I've had it 5 or 6 years and I have never had a problem with it starting. I cut off the gas and let it run out each time I use it. It'll start on the 2nd pull when I can remember to turn it on and turn on the gas before trying.
Chris
Or just look at it here online : Portable + Emergency Generators Buyer's Guide - Generator Wattage Chart | Northern Tool + Equipment .
BTW, we have a Generac 5500W/8500 Surge that we use during power outages. I backfeed through a 30 AMP breaker into the breaker 200 Amp box. I cut off the main breaker and all 220 breakers and fire up the generator. I do have to manage the refrigerators (we have 2) and freezer so that they don't all come on at the sime time, but it works well.
Most of it's use has been building barns and fences. I used it to run a battery charger the other day to charge the battery on a borrowed trencher. I had parked the trencher further from the shop than I had an extension cord and the generator needed to run anyway. I've had it 5 or 6 years and I have never had a problem with it starting. I cut off the gas and let it run out each time I use it. It'll start on the 2nd pull when I can remember to turn it on and turn on the gas before trying.
Chris
MossRoad
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When I was trying to figure out if the DR generator would work with our well pump I spent alot of time trying to figure out the pump HP and how much power it needed.
Then the old CFL light bulb slowly turned on and got bright.
I just checked the circuit breaker and our well pump is on 20 amps. Figured if the generator can produce 30 amps of power then it should run the well.
The real question is why did it take me so long to go check the panel to figure out the power requirements.....
Later,
dan
Is that 120V or 220V?
Our well is on a 15A 220V breaker. Our generator is rated at 30A 120V or 15A 220V.
groundcover
Elite Member
Some good safety points:Portable Generator Hazards
Back feeding without a disconnect/interlock is bad medicine, utility will shut you down if they catch you. Not that I haven't done it but I am legal now and feel a lot better about it.
Went with something like this: RELIANCE CONTROLS Indoor 200 Amp Transfer Panel: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag
Real simple ,still back feeds but you can't accidently power up the grid!
Back feeding without a disconnect/interlock is bad medicine, utility will shut you down if they catch you. Not that I haven't done it but I am legal now and feel a lot better about it.
Went with something like this: RELIANCE CONTROLS Indoor 200 Amp Transfer Panel: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag
Real simple ,still back feeds but you can't accidently power up the grid!
I have a 30 Amp generator right now, but I want to install a 50 Amp manual transfer switch with a 50 Amp socket. (Socket Link Reliance Controls PB50 - 50-Amp (4-Prong) Power Inlet Box ) , for when I buy a larger generator in the future.
The 30 Amp generator (7500 Watts max) has a socket style of L14-30R, which has a single ground (earth), single neutral, and dual lives (hot), for both 110VAC circuits.
I assume that the CS6364\5 50 Amp sockets also have the same number and type of connections. Can I make a temp cable myself with the 30A - 50A combo cable? A 30A generator into a 50A hook up? Unless they sell these?
The 30 Amp generator (7500 Watts max) has a socket style of L14-30R, which has a single ground (earth), single neutral, and dual lives (hot), for both 110VAC circuits.
I assume that the CS6364\5 50 Amp sockets also have the same number and type of connections. Can I make a temp cable myself with the 30A - 50A combo cable? A 30A generator into a 50A hook up? Unless they sell these?
Travelover
Elite Member
BobRip
Elite Member
Good point on depth of well taking more power to get all that water moving. My well is in the 175-200ft deep range and it only has a 1/3 hp motor on it. I have been looking at a 6500 watt generator.. so I should be all set. I tried to go with a smaller 3000 watt inverter type... but if the refrigerator/ well pump and a few lights are on at the same time... then that is over the limit, especially for startup.
Mine is new and I have been monitoring it, runs about 30% of the time.. which helps. It is the startup current in the fridge that is killer, running current is not too bad.
I was looking at the Honda Inverter model, it is enclosed and has very low dB (59) rating, clean power, fuel efficient and is very tempting... just not the $3800 price tag.
With only a 1/3 HP well pump you should be fine. Mine is over 1hp.
On the fridge the other high load is the defrost. It can pull 900 watts or so. I thought about bypassing that during power outages, but never did. It seems a shame to melt ice when you are short on power. Of course too much ice is not good either.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
The well is on a "big" breaker that was 20 Amps. I *** THINK *** the well breaker is on 220v. The generator is on a 30 Amp "big" breaker as well. From the talk with the electrician he setup the generator plug to supply 220v.
The generator is rated at 30Amps at 250 VAC so I think I am ok.
Later,
Dan
