Another Firewood Processor

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

We got a little more work done this evening.




Cut down the lawn tractor frames and removed the front axles.


Welded the supports that will hold the motors.

So the tractor engines, frames and all, will be installed in the processor. They will be welded to the pieces of angle running right to left about a foot up from the bottom frame members.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Well, I have not posted in a while but this time it hasn't been due to lack of progress. Just busy. We've actually gotten a lot of things done.


The main frame has been painted and the infeed rack is on.


The saw mount and the log clamp have been welded on as well as their cylinder mounting tabs.


The main wedge and the multi wedge support have been tied together.



The pusher has been all welded up.


We are currently less than pleased with the potential for binding on the foreword stroke so we are going to add a longer plate below the existing sled. Our hope is that this will greatly reduce the risk of catastrophic failure.


We have a fuel tank that is ready for installation.


The infeed rack is ready to mount the legs, mount the cylinder tabs, and get painted.

We got the plate that will hold the back of the splitter cylinder today so that should be going on tomorrow. After that is done the I-beam can be mounted in the frame.
I ordered the pump mounting plates and motor to pump couplings today. We're getting close to start the hydraulic phase of the project.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Got the new tractor a couple weeks ago. I am liking everything but the greatly reduced forward visibility compared to the old 35 HP Boomer.




Grapple for the logs and ripping random trees out of the ground.


48" Forks for handling firewood bags. We are also tossing around the idea of adding a grapple to the forks so that we can use one tractor and one attachment to load the processor with logs and remove palatalized firewood.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

I think I've mentioned that we are planning on bagging our firewood. Got the idea from Ken's build thread. Then Scooby074 turned me on to this video.


So that is now all in the plans. I've come up with a pretty simple design that I think will work.

Some square tubing or angle for the base. Square tubing for the upright with an outer sleeve to make it height adjustable similar to the legs on our infeed table. Make the hinge out of some round stock and a pipe that goes over it. Drill and tap the end of the round stock to keep the pipe on there. The tray gets welded onto the pipe. An arm comes off of the tray and a gas spring is used for the tension to keep the tray held in either direction.

The hope is for this to be a two person operation. One runs the processor, one sets up the pallets, takes them away, and feeds the logs onto the infeed rack. Should put out some serious firewood, that is, if it works...

 

[Scooby074]

For production, I think the 2 bag system would be excellent. The flip chute is probably the easiest way to get it.

I notice you dont have anything in your design to hang the firewood bags?

If/when I get enough tractor, Im going to bags ASAP.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

I bought half a dozen or so bags of wood from Ken this past winter. Ken loves them. Me, I see it differently. The bags are great for the initial loading of them and OK for storage. I HATE them for the unloading part. They slump over as you unload them (which is part of the problem of the storage). It takes twice the floor area for one bag to sit as it does for the same amount stacked in one of my frames. Some rigid metal baskets would be my choice but I need a minimum of 30 of them for a year and at $100 each, I can build pallet frames and have to stack it once right off the splitter then all the moving is with the tractor and I can get double the wood into the same space.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

I notice you dont have anything in your design to hang the firewood bags?

We still need to buy the bags. Once we receive some we'll design and fab the structure. I really like the hanging method of bags like those in the video or the Dino Bags. But they are cost prohibitive if you use a lot of firewood.

I HATE them for the unloading part. They slump over as you unload them (which is part of the problem of the storage). It takes twice the floor area for one bag to sit as it does for the same amount stacked in one of my frames. Some rigid metal baskets would be my choice but I need a minimum of 30 of them for a year and at $100 each, I can build pallet frames and have to stack it once right off the splitter then all the moving is with the tractor and I can get double the wood into the same space.

Good to know about the slumping, and I can see the concern about space requirements. I currently have a 16 x 24 woodshed that can hold 24 full cord if hand stacked (I designed it to hold 3 years worth of wood). Thing is, it's never been full. So I have some extra space.

I usually use about 6-8 full cord a year to heat my home, one of the other individuals involved in this build burns up to 20 full cord a year with his outside wood boiler. Since I would like to always have 2 years worth of wood on hand I will need over 50 bags. My neighbor will need about 60 for a years worth. We like how inexpensive the bags are and the prospect of NO STACKING. I haven't priced out building boxes but I can't help but think they would be pricey. Since we all have space we're liking the idea of bags. Time will tell.

However, we do have access to plenty of scrap skids so maybe we could end up building some frames if anyone feels like stacking to save space. Thanks for the input.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Two of us were able to work this morning.


We felt we should add a support onto the tongue so we don't rip it off.


Welded the rear splitter cylinder mount in place and got the I-beam mounted in the processor. Had to set up the saw to confirm the saw to wedge measurements.


A closeup of the saw. It is not hooked to a cylinder, it would not be able to run that far down otherwise.


The other side of the processor.

I'm heading out to see family for the 4th but they will be working on it some more tomorrow. We're quickly entering the hydraulics phase.

 

[Jim Timber]

Neat project. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[jonix]

Hi,

"Wild Bill the 2nd",

Sorry to use your post to try to solve my problem , but I'm desperately in need of help. I am in the final phase of a firewood processor ( 3D images ) , and the first tests did not go well .

The two 50 lts/min and 66 lts/min gear pumps exceed 5000 PSI (!!!!) and still not achieve the 10 cm diameter piston to split eucalyptus with a 400 mm diameter into my 8 edges knife ..can anyone help me with this?

And why the F11-005 PARKER motor with 34 Lts/min dedicated pump can not get a decent cut at 150 bar ? ( a 3/8 pitch chain with a 7 teeth sprocket and a set of pulleys to double speed)..

The system has a 18 KW (24 Hp) electric three phase motor with 4 pumps (2 for splitting, 1 for the saw and saw piston, and 1 for log conveyor, log feeder, clamp, log lenght stopper, etc...) what is wrong with this? something has to be wrong...

I can get you much more information and a video of what is happen (all the machine is near to break and still not splitting the wood!!!) if you need/want to see that...

thanks in advance..and i hope anyone helps me, because here in portugal the season is about to begin, and i have no firewood drying...

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Greetings Jonix,

I am away for the weekend so I don't have any of my hydraulic calculations.

I would start a new post for your issue in the hydraulics section of the forum.

I would post as much information as you can about the machine. Is it purchased or home made? Pump, motor, and cylinder specifications. For pumps include motor rpm and pump displacement. Motors will need to know displacement. Cylinders will need to know diameter.

Other helpful information would be hydraulic reservoir size, hydraulic line diameter for the areas your having problems with. Maybe valve flow ratings.

5000 psi sounds a bit scarry. A video might help but we don't want to see you bend up your machine or anything.

I will try to look into this later tomorrow when I'm back home.

Good luck!

 

[jonix]

Ok,

I thank you for the help that you can give!

It´s a home made purchase firewood processor seriously, it is a project with some nice guys that have a shop, and i was able to 3d design the machine..so, we go for it..

I can only go to their shop on Monday, and i´m gonna try to post as much information as i can get..!!!
I´m gonna take some pics to..!

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

The two 50 lts/min (13.2GPM) and 66 lts/min (17.4 GPM) gear pumps exceed 5000 PSI (!!!!) and still not achieve the 10 cm (3.9" that should develop 30.4 tons @ 5000 PSI) diameter piston to split eucalyptus with a 400 mm (15.75") diameter into my 8 edges knife ..can anyone help me with this? (a picture of the splitter cylinder and wedge would be helpful)

And why the F11-005 PARKER (.305 CI / revolution) motor with 34 Lts/min (8.98 GPM) dedicated pump can not get a decent cut at 150 bar (2,175 PSI)? ( a 3/8 pitch chain with a 7 teeth sprocket and a set of pulleys to double speed).. (Saw motor should run at 7200 RPM with the given information developing 100 in/lb of torque and 5.7 HP. Chain should run at 3150 ft/min)

The system has a 18 KW (24 Hp) electric three phase motor with 4 pumps (2 for splitting, 1 for the saw and saw piston, and 1 for log conveyor, log feeder, clamp, log lenght stopper, etc...) what is wrong with this? something has to be wrong... (Need information about how the two pumps are used for splitting)

I can get you much more information and a video of what is happen (all the machine is near to break and still not splitting the wood!!!) if you need/want to see that...

thanks in advance..and i hope anyone helps me, because here in portugal the season is about to begin, and i have no firewood drying...

I made notes in red. Changed units for those of us not used to metric. I would say that we really need information about how the two pumps are used to split. We need pictures of the wedge to see how the log will spread out as it is split. Is the wood green or is it dried out? I read that eucalyptus is more difficult to split when dry.

Off hand I would think the splitter would work at 30 tons but it all might depend on the wedge design. Also if there is anything binding in the splitter travel.
The saw seems a bit slow to me. You have decent torque but I would think you'd want your chain speed to be around 5000 ft/min. It could be as simple as changing to an 11 tooth sprocket if one is available.

My previous comments still stand, I would gather additional information and start a new thread for this in the hydraulics or build it yourself section. Feel free to post a link to it here if you wish.

 

[SpringHollow]

If the knife edges are not staggered, I would not be surprised if there was difficulty in splitting. And just because the pumps are rated for 5000 psi does not mean that is the pressure they are generating. There could be a bypass at a lower pressure than that.

Ken

 

[jonix]

Thanks again!

I open a new thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/340703-firewood-processor-help.html#post4182843

 

[mx842]

You may have already posted this but if you did I missed it but what are the sizes of the pieces you used to make up that wedge? What is the overall height and width of the finished wedge?

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

I don't know that I've really spelled out what we did since the design change moving away from the box.
Dimensioned images of the wedges are attached. The main wedge is 28" tall.





Status update: We got our last load of steel today. Next up, mounting the motors and pumps, mounting the valves, purchasing and running all of the hydraulic lines. Still need to fab the hydraulic tank too.

Some of the steel is to build the out feed flipper tray to split output between 2 pallets.

We have a motor for the out feed convener coming as well.

 

[mx842]

I don't know that I've really spelled out what we did since the design change moving away from the box.
Dimensioned images of the wedges are attached. The main wedge is 28" tall.

View attachment 432786

View attachment 432787

Status update: We got our last load of steel today. Next up, mounting the motors and pumps, mounting the valves, purchasing and running all of the hydraulic lines. Still need to fab the hydraulic tank too.

Some of the steel is to build the out feed flipper tray to split output between 2 pallets.

We have a motor for the out feed convener coming as well.

Thanks that is very helpful. I'm still gathering pieces and parts but I would like to start work on some of the parts that I have pieces for like the wedge, hydraulic tank, fuel cell, along with some other stuff like brackets for the pumps and motors. I got rained out the other day and I decided to start working on the wedge. I have a piece of plate that is 24" long by 18" wide and 1 1/4" thick that I was going to cut up and make the main piece out of but decided to wait until I could check some other wedge designs to get some measurements off of before I cut up this nice piece of plate. I'm planing on hopefully being able to get two out of it and maybe playing around with another configuration to see what else I could come up with.

I wonder how this design will work out with larger wood.....say like 36" or more? Most of the wood I have is 18" to 26" or so but I do have some really big stuff on the ground and I also have several really large oaks that are dying and will have to be cut down soon.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

More questions posted to the associated hydraulics thread.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

I wonder how this design will work out with larger wood.....say like 36" or more? Most of the wood I have is 18" to 26" or so but I do have some really big stuff on the ground and I also have several really large oaks that are dying and will have to be cut down soon.

Sorry for the late reply, Are you asking about our exact size and design or the design principal beefed up and made larger? We are already a bit scared as to what this thing might do to the beam with the wedge sitting 24+ inches above the beam. It is one big lever! I would not want to put anything larger on ours unless we boxed in the beam on both sides. Maybe also having a solid attachment point above the wedge that really helps to distribute the load.
Note: We haven't run the machine yet. Maybe I'm overly cautious, I have not had any structural calculations run on the frame. Just asked some people that said, "Yeah that should be good"

Status update:


We got the infeed bars, sprockets, and chain on


Mounted the hydraulic motor that will drive the infeed. Set it up on a pivot and tensioned it with a turnbuckle down to the frame.


Welded the plates that will hold the hydraulic valves.