A road over swamp?

[Don87]

If you have trees growing on it.....then it doent seem like it's "swamp" land to me. ??

Big difference in soil stability if your land supports tree growth IMO.

Oooops.....re-read your post. Nevermind

I'm glad you restated what you said.................

Wetlands are protected, I don't agree with the classifications, but they are protected..........proceed cautiously.

 

[crazyal]

Wondering how the OP's concrete filled tire road built through a marshland is holding up 10 years later. I wager it's resting underneath 6 feet of mud.

Considering the fact that his last post was over 6 years ago.............I doubt we will ever know.

Maybe he got stuck on his road and hasn't been seen from since. :laughing:

 

[JHTFarmer]

He built his road on the swamp and was never heard from again?? Probably too late to send out a rescue team..... Poor guy.

The Take home message from this misadventure is that it may be ok to build a concrete filled floating tire road in the swamp. just make sure you have somebody there the first time you use it.

 

[impdaddy]

Gotta jump in here. If it is a wetland, the Corps of Engineers has jurisdiction under the 404 permit program. We do this permitting for clients all the time. But the easiest way is to ask for COE input before you do it. True that many ppl have had to remove what has been placed as well as pay a fine. In my experience, this is one of the few instances where 'it is easier to ask forgiveness, than permission' DOES NOT apply. My 2 cents.:thumbsup:

btw it is not an impossible process since there are ag exemptions and nationwide general permits that are easier to grant by the COE. and they do welcome ppl asking first. (generally)

 

[Yaouk1961]

Maybe he got stuck on his road and hasn't been seen from since. :laughing:

You can know after all. Its been a long time between drinks but I finally ckecked back with this Forum.
The crossing was one of the few things I have done that has actually worked well after 13 years. It took 2 ton cars easily and the occassional concrete truck. Over time some tyres did pop up - but I simply removed them and filled in the hole. Also as the base was not level or consistent some tyres would be pushed down and require more fill over the top. On average i would place a layer of gravel (about 75mm or 3 inches) over the top each year and that is the extent of the maintence - apart from mowing as the grass grew through the gravel.

In retrospect I would do some things differently. I used rather small gravel at about 20-25mm. This is fine for a top coating and for lighter vehicles but for a solid base you need much larger stuff - at leat 100mm or 4 inches. I am in the process of upgrading the road to morer safely take trucks 15-20ton. For this I am simply using a larger size gravel. It will never be strong enough for regular use of big trucks.

Take home messages:
Its a lot of work to bolt those tyres together!
Use gravel at least 75mm in size for a base.
The road will always be 4x4 only as wheel spin does cause holes.

Oh and for the record: Only one person was ever stuck. My neighbour drove his 2-wheel drive truck over the edge one day to avoid a floating log during a flood.

Hope people find this entertaining after all these years.
George

 

[lesleyjeanie]

I am looking to build the same type of road over a jungle swamp. How did you bolt the tires together? And how is the road holding up now? Any other ideas?

 

[Soundguy]

i built a road over what was essentially a swamp in putnam county after the hurricanes in 04/06 for a fema contract.

we ended up stabilizing, in place with soil cement, and then went black base.

thik stabilized subgrade and then thick base course, then surface course.

it passed it's 2 year warranty period in 2008 and is still in use. 2' past the 2-3' stabilized shoulder is wet ground..

 

[lesleyjeanie]

I am building the road in a developing country in a hinterland area. Money is tight and that's why this tire road sounded so appealing. Also, the fact that it could help clean up the country. I'm also not tOo familiar with building roads, this is a learning experience for me. The biggest load that will go over the road will be a tractor with a lumber load. The area is swampy with lots of trees but the water does not run, it just rises and falls depending on the amount of rain (it would be considered rainforest).

 

[Soundguy]

how long a stretch thru the wet area?

 

[Soundguy]

might read this.. and look at army eng corps.

A Landowner's Guide to Building Forest Access Roads - Introduction

this too:

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/transport/how.html

 

[lesleyjeanie]

We are building two roads to connect 3 islands. One road is 100 rods (1200 ft) and the other road is 140 rods (1700 ft). We are doing the first road corduroy style and might run out of funds/materials for the second road so I am exploring different options.

 

[Soundguy]

depending on the logs used.. it could hold up for a while.. again.. depending on water level and wood type.

if you could stabilize the fill between under and above the logs with a binder like a lil portland it would go a long way.

i've seen many logging roads made for logs and clay..

 

[yaouk]

I am looking to build the same type of road over a jungle swamp. How did you bolt the tires together? And how is the road holding up now? Any other ideas?

I drilled holes through the tread and bolted with 6mm (1/4) bolts and washers. The dont need to be galvanised bolts cause the point of bolting is just to hold as formwork while the tyres are being filled. I would advise using larger tyres (say 15 inch plus) and putting in a base layer of 100mm (4 inch) rocks and 20mm over the top. Some tyres will pop up as vehicles go over and i just pull them out and fill in the hole with more gravel. As vehciles go over the tyres slowly get pushed down forming a more solid foundation for more gravel when needed. This system should be good for up to 10 tonne wheel loads. Although on one occassion when some gravel got into my brain I sent a couple of 20 tonne concrete trucks over. They didin't get stuck but did make some nice ruts.

I am please with how well its holding up after all these years. For maintenance every year i need to put in another layer of gravel and for any holes that open up I fill with larger aggregate first. Considering I have never found a solid base its been a good system. Logs would be great but my crossing is 70 metres wide (over 200 feet). Tying the logs together would have been tricky for me. I will try and post some pics to show people what it loks like now - 13 years on.

 

[lesleyjeanie]

Being a jungle swamp there are a lot of stumps and roots and the soil is mostly pagass. The only heavy machinery we have (and can get out here within our budget) is a tractor. Would it work to leave the stumps as a foundation below a corduroy road? With each laid pile we would cut a groove into the stump and it would act also to hold the pile in place. After the piles are laid we would throw sand. Thoughts?

 

[Soundguy]

i forsee a wavy road as the stumps will actlike piles and areas between the stumps will slump.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

Around here after a buried stump rots and decays there are large holes or depressions left.

 

[Soundguy]

the time it takes that stump to rot is going to depend on what type it is. if a road is going over a fresh stump, andthat road gets immediate use.. there is going to be a hump at the stump as the rest of the road subsides.

later, if that stump rots, then you might have a void that opens up inside that hump that makes an even worse riding road.

just an non ideal situation to pave over a stump...

 

[aAaAWEWE]

i forsee a wavy road as the stumps will actlike piles and areas between the stumps will slump.

Yes. It probably will be 'wavy'. However it may not be practical to remove all the stumps. It may be easier to cope with the 'waves' and fillin around them. Roads always need maintenace over time.

 

[sdkubota]

There is a fabric called "Tensar" that looks like the plastic snow fences they used to sell that is specifically made for stabilizing poor soils. I have read numerous publications where it was rolled out over swamp you couldn't stand in, gravelled over the fabric, and you could drive a car on it. It uses the tensile strength of the material to support loads. Bad thing...it is expensive but go to any building supply store and they can give you a price.

Also...wood really doesn't rot when surrounded by saturated soils. They pull trees out of the river that have been underwater for 100 years and log them. Wood needs air to rot.

 

[Soundguy]

cypress won't rot under water. plain wood does a pretty good job.. that's why we only find sunk wood ships that are burried by mud...