4300 repeatedly breaks turnbuckle,

[Anonymous Poster]

rancar:

My point was not that <font color="blue">these are inferior tractors </font>(your words). All brands can have problems with certain areas. He may have <font color="blue">bought in good faith thinking he was buying a quality product</font>(your words) but his intentions and what he thinks is not relevant. What is relevant are the facts. My point was simply that given his experiences with the tractor and the dealer it is silly to keep banging your head against the wall. If I recall in reading the additional postings, he was even thinking of giving JD & the dealer MORE money for extended warranty. Unbelievable. If everything he has said is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, JD has made a serious effort to get things right and simply can't do it for whatever reason. That was the point.

Yesterday I was at an antique power show and there was a JD dealer next door. Because of this thread went and carefully looked at a 4300 and a 4310. Chief may be correct that the breakage is being caused by lateral force vectors. However, I would make a small wager (say $1.00) that the problem is due to the geometry of his hitch set-up combined with the relief valve setting. He claims 10 (if I recall) replacements of fractured part. He also claims he doesn't allow much swing on the hitch. Can't believe that JD or even an incompetent dealer would be furnishing 10 faulty part-not likely? they all would have come from the same part run. Of course, the issue of bad turnbuckles could be resolved by replacing JD's turnbuckle with one of the same length/strength from another manufacturer-if it breaks we know the problem is not the turnbuckle; if it doesn't we know JDs turnbuckle is bad. Logically, although the set-up on the 43xx is weak, it isn't THAT weak. Since others don't seem to be having this problem, logically, it probably stems from his particular set-up on his particular tractor, i.e. particular, not generic. And, by reasoning, that leads to hitch geometry and pressure relief setting-unless there is some peculiarity with the implement. Assuming, of course, that he is keeping the hitch snugged up (limited lateral play) which was Chief's point.

Anyone care to take me up on my bet???

JEH

On reflection, and assuming he is not allowing much lateral play in the hitch, I will raise my bet to $5.00 that the problem is with his particular hitch geometry, pressure relief valve setting or the implement.

JEH

 

[Chief]

Another option would be to take a turn buckle to a good machine shop and have them fabricate a turn buckle out of a much stronger type of steel and if possble larger/reinforced diameter or see if it is possible to utilize a class III or a heavier/stronger built built turn buckle from a larger tractor model. Not sure if this is possible but may be worth lookin into.

 

[iamgott]

Hi Grimreaper,
The part about the dealer doin his part is just not so. I had asked him/them several times about why it keeps breaking. His "salesman" best response Made out of cheap pot metal, LOL

I Have only moved, graded Florida dirt and sand for over the past year and it still breaks.

The salesman told me I could use the scarifers for clearing light brush and palmetto's, soon after stuff started breaking, I quit doin this type of work, and it hurt because I have alot of calls for this type of work and I was counting on the extra revenue to help pay off the balance of the machine. Again, I have only graded dirt and sand for over the past year and it still breaks.
And when I bring it to the dealers attention I actually stated" whats gonna happen when the warranty runs out? I need to figure out why it keeps breaking? I can't afford to fix it at this pace when the warranty runs out, what can we do? He hands me turnbuckle!!

As for the relief valve, you may be right. He had it adjusted so high it would stall the tractor when I raised the 3 point. I sent it in because of this, I had no idea what was wrong. They installed a new rockvalve and the new filter. When I went to pick it up it was still doing it. I had to argue with the service manager and prove it was still messed up! Finally, the mechanic came out with a wrench, and fixed it right there. I guess JD paid for a rockvalve that wasn't even needed.
As for the geometry, I have tried readjusting, and really, If you bring the drag links in, it creates more stress on the independent arms. I do have the pin on the stabilizers in the fixed hole, but it still allows for quite a bit of laterall movement. Im open to suggestions, and someone made an intersting point. There's a good chance most dont do as much work with theirs as I do mine, or under the same conditions. I sometimes have to work at odd angles in tight places etc. and I have had to move upwards of 100 yrds of dirt and grade it in a day, and within forms, This can be a grueling task for any machine, specially in this Florida heat. I have tried to re-edit certain parts of my original posts, as I really dont believe its all the fault of the machine "my frustration". Thanks Reaper, gott

 

[iamgott]

Oh, and I advise anyone to take the extended warranty, why you would think this is silly in my situation I cannot understand? You mean, ? I should have mercy on JD? or the dealer? I dont know what you mean by this statement. I may be stuck with this machine for awhile. I dont know if I can absorb the loss to upgrade at this point. So to me, the warranty would have been a wise investment.

Keep in mind, I dont know what they fixed and what they haven't. Sometimes I never got a repair ticket, sometimes I got one stating they fixed one thing when it was in for something tottally different. Trick to get paid for repeated warranty repair? I give up, it seems er'one's tryin to help, but I get the feeling some just dont understand whats transpired and its so lengthy almost no-one could invest the time to review it,,,,whew!! I say this because some seem to be supporting JD in saying they have done er'thing they could!!! I disagree, not once has anyone discussed this with me in an intelligent manner, period.

"they" just kept handing me turnbuckles, while I was pleading to know why and what to do to stop it!!

And I do apreciate your thought Grimreaper, thanks

 

[normde2001]

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Sure hope you're not a postal worker, (I'm in Fl. too), However I quit reading after seeing the picture of your split tractor. It appears you have the lift arm link attached in the extreme front hole in the lower lift arm, effectively doubling or tripling the weight and strain on the whole lift mech. Attaching in the rearmost hole will give a lot more mechanical leverage.
If that doesn't help, I would lift the blade to it's highest point and set it on a solid object, then remove the hitch pin clips and see if the link is under any strain in that position. Your tractor should easily handle a 6' blade and there is no way that 1/2" or 5/8" shaft should literally pull in two from the weight of 1/2 of the boxblade under normal cicumstances.
Your dealer is obviously incompetent, but you need to start, and should have been, doing your own troubleshooting if you hope to be a successful tractor owner.

 

[iamgott]

Actually, I just read one of your previous replies "Grimreaper". Hitting over the head? Take your losses? figure the cheapest way out? There is no answer for any of these questions. I wish I could just put you in my shoes for a few weeks, no, I would not wish it on anybody, forever. But, what? You feel I should take another $10,000.00 loss because someone sold me a machine and wont help resolve a problem? I took the neccesary steps to minimize my losses already, I try not to use the machine unless absolutely neccesary!! I dont know about you, but I cant just go out and dump 10 or 20 grand at the drop of a hat. The dillemma with this machine has me so far in the hole, I may have to go back into retirement. Maybe your comments were well meant, and I believe they were. But you really dont see it from where Im at. Im at the bottom of a big hole lookin up, and someone just threw me a shovel "LMAO!!"
If you were on this side of the fence, "Grimreaper" you would realize your comments are very strong, dont address the issue, and suggest that I do something, "but not exactly what" when in reality, my hands are somewhat tied. I am looking at some larger machines, but Im not sure if I can afford or justify goin that route. Depreciation is killer, at least on a trade in. I apreciate your thoughts Grimreaper, but they left me more confused than anything, I was almost in a whirlwind while reading it, lol. Take care,,,,,,,,,,,,,gott

 

[iamgott]

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Hey Norm, you sparked some interet, but Im not sure what hole your referring to. Are you referring to the stabilizer bracket? Help!!!

I have tried to troubleshoot it, and also had it in the presence of the dealership when I asked them for suggestions. Thats when " they sated: well, its just cheap pot metal!!"
Norm, I have done, thought tried er'thing I know. To say, its up to me to troubleshoot, sounds like you dont think I have. Its actually a painful remark, but trust me, I have run out of idea's, and Im still trying, thats why Im on this forum. Let me know what hole your referring to, thanks,,,,gott

 

[normde2001]

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I'm not familiar with JD's but on my Yanmar the lift arm link is attached to the lower lift arm much closer to the back end of the lift arm than yours is in the picture and it appears there is another hole further back, possibly for that purpose. The closer to the rear end of the lift arm that the link will attach the easier it is to lift.

 

[rancar]

Grimreaper,

OK....let's see....the following are your words from your earlier post...

<font color="blue">"...Most manufacturers have problem models, problem parts, etc. But JD, more than many, is mainly a marketing company (and they're good at it). Don't forget, they have THREE divisions. You bought something from their "consumer" division. That ought to tell you something..." </font>

Then, you make the following point in your subsequent reply...

<font color="blue">"...My point was not that these are inferior tractors (your words)..."</font>

Yep, these are my words but THEY ARE YOUR INFERENCE and what you are clearly inferring is that John Deere's C&CE Division manufactures problem models since they are primarily "a marketing company" (your words). You didn't answer my primary question. What is it about John Deere's C&CE Division that you know that the rest of us JD 4x00 and 4x10 owners don't know? You are saying that since these models are manufactured by JD's C&CE Division, that 'ought to tell you something' (your words). And, so I ask again grimreaper, "What does it say?" Tell us and educate us. I'm interested in learning about all the problem models that JD's C&CE Division produces.

 

[Sprocket1]

I for one would like to see a pic of this tractor and blade hooked up from above and also behind. I am beginning to think that somehow the distance is too great between pins.

 

[iamgott]

I'll see if I can get another pic up tommorrow. I think the distance is ok, but I just realized, their twisting. You would think with all the replacements, if this is the cause, the dealer would have noticed/addressed it, specially when I asked em about it. I dont know if you seen it, but I posted a few pics "a link" on some of my posts. The one about twisting, has a pic of the link themselves.

 

[iamgott]

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

hey norm, nope, just the one hole. the only place I have more than 1 hole is, on the rockshaft housing for upper link, and the stabilizer brackets themselves, oh, and my head,,, know I shouldn't had added that!!!,,,,,,,,,,,gott

 

[Sprocket1]

I think I've seen most if not all the pics. De pics depict an unnatural position for lift arms. Do they stay that way with nothing on them?

 

[iamgott]

Those pics were with it partially raised, relaxed they look more straight. Im gonna go get all new hardware, the one with the bolt recently fell apart so I stuck it in there to finish the job. It worked so good I was thinkin about leaving it. I still might, but I need to get the 2 small black washer "like" retainers and a new shoe "ate up"

Its kinda amazing, if I had not got on this forum and started whinning and stuff, I prob wouldn't have went out and stared at it. I really think the dealer should have been able to solve this, "his mechanic"
It was all your guys advise that got my 3 brain cells workin, lol

Im pretty sure I need to put spacers on the Box Blade

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

In warranty or out, I STILL think you ought to get the area service rep to meet with you and your tractor at the dealership. Tell him you've tried everything the dealer has suggested to no avail and, if this is the result of something you're doing badly or improperly you'd like to know and maybe the rep can show you where the dealership could not.

Generally speaking, in my experience, the reps themselves do not want to meet the customer directly so as to avoid confrontational situations, etc., as I'm sure you can imagine. In this instance, however, I think if you pursue this in the manner I described, you should be able to get a meeting. If not, move up the Deere ladder as high as you need to arrange this meeting. If you can't meet with the area rep, find out if there's a regional rep, etc., that you might meet. I think doing this could be very worth your while.

As a last resort in trying to arrange the meeting (if all else has failed) try to explain that you don't have confidence in the dealer having properly explained your situation and concerns to Deere or explained the proper operation of the machine to you and you believe you need to meet with the rep so nothing will be 'lost in the translation,' so to speak.

This may not be a one or two phone call endeavor here. I called four to six times a day for a week to climb the ladder at Cummins Engines to resolve a problem. More recently I talked a friend through the same process with a warranty problem/dealer problem with Caterpillar. In each case, it was well worth the time and effort.

Good luck with this. I hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Gary_in_Indiana:

<font color="blue">This may not be a one or two phone call endeavor here. I called four to six times a day for a week to climb
the ladder at Cummins Engines to resolve a problem. </font>

I have found it is usually simpler to start at the top and work down. Find the CEO's name and call him. They usually have helpers to screen calls and can call "down" the food chain. The recipient of the message has more fear from the top than from you (or me). Also, the CEOs office knows where the "button" guy is to get it done. You will usually get better results, quicker.

JEH

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Chief:

<font color="blue">Another option would be to take a turn buckle to a good machine shop and have them fabricate a turn buckle out of a much stronger type of steel and if possble larger/reinforced diameter or see if it is possible to utilize a class III or a heavier/stronger built built turn buckle from a larger tractor model. Not sure if this is possible but may be worth lookin into. </font>

Yeah, you're right. But I suspect getting one from another tractor brand that would fit would be a lot cheaper. He says in a susequent post that he was told the JD turnbuckle was "cheap pot metal". May be, although the ones I looked at on the 4300 & 4310 Saturday didn't look that bad, but I didn't scrap it (wasn't my tractor). In any event, he has now mentioned that in the extreme up position there is some lateral sway. So, your point about that may very well be correct.

JEH

 

[Anonymous Poster]

iamgott:

<font color="blue">Oh, and I advise anyone to take the extended warranty, why you would think this is silly in my situation I cannot understand? You mean, ? I should have mercy on JD? or the dealer? I dont know what you mean by this statement. I may be stuck with this machine for awhile. I dont know if I can absorb the loss to upgrade at this point. So to me, the warranty would have been a wise investment.</font>

1) My point was that when you give someone your money, you are "voting" for their success. Your whole situation is a comedy of errors (yes, iamgott, I fully realize that it doesn't seem that way to you-quite understandably). And yes, things always look differently from inside looking out, than from outside looking in. Whether you realize it or not, my suggestion (and several others) to dump the thing and move on is the best thing to do. Not only have you apparently lost money by buying this JD, but it has obviously frustrated you, no doubt affected your health (even if nothing more than raising your blood pressure), etc. Life is short enough without diliberately aggravating yourself dealing with people who are causing you problems.

2) If you absolutely must keep this thing (the JD), buy yourself a set of shop manuals and find an independent (or another dealer - NH, KUB or even JD) mechanic-good ones do exist. Parenthetically, BEFORE I bought my current tractor I spent time with, and interviewed, the service manager at the dealer-in fact, I probably spent as much time wandering around their service department as with the salesman. Don't buy anything from JD (unless you absolutely HAVE to, such as parts). Don't "vote" for the success of people who have obviously harmed you. Buying their extended warranty may, or may not, cost them money. But it will certainly cause you frustration and loss. If you must keep it, learn to take care of it yourself-you can certainly get some help on this site.

3) Why would you continue putting on turnbuckles that kept braking when you were told <font color="blue">they were cheap pot metal</font>? Take the advice and buy a comparable NH or KUB turnbuckle, or, have one made. If the pressure relief valve has been properly adjusted, it isn't that. There have been some other posts regarding details on the geometry (and implement) issue. Follow through on that. You should certainly be able to get it worked out, sooner or later. After all, its not brain surgery.

Good luck.

JEH

 

[Chief]

Check to make sure the knuckle heads at the dealer did not forget to install the stop links to the turn buckles (John Deere Part # M90337) If one of is these are missing; it could cause some problems. There should be a total of 4; 2 on each side installed.

 

[_RaT_]

Silly question, but after looking at the pictures of the axle housing, the new vs the old, it appears as though they are not made of cast iron. I only mention it beasue of the detail of the casting. Perhaps they are casting cast iron differently today. On second thought with things like the sways attaching to it, it has to be made of steel, I couldn't see aluminum holding up. Rat...