4300 repeatedly breaks turnbuckle,

_RaT_ · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

That link should endure way beyond the lift capacity of the 3 pt hitch. I often do two things too utilize the power of the 3 pt hitch. One is to slide the rear cutting edge of my boxscraper, all 1000lbs of it into a large pile, top hydraulic link extended enough to have the cutting edge slightly engaged, back up with the scraper on the ground and push the pile, as the wheels begin spinning I both lift the 3pt hitch and retract the top link. All this helps not only move the pile, but gives a lot more traction because of the large lift load. Secondly, with my hydraulic rippers down, hydraulic tilt fully extended tilting the box to the right, I have one ripper grab onto a stubborn or unknown stubbornnes of a rock, apply a little forward pressure with the HST and lift. It's obvious right away if the rock is going to be dislodged or not. The lifting action really loads the rear tires and adds a lot of traction. So why am I telling you this, I've done it many times with no fears or worries of challenging the 3 pt hitch system. On my International, the 3 pt hitch lift must be immense becasue it can actually start to flatten out the rear tires becasue of the load. I'm sure other folks with tractors have done the same with the same results.

I would look at it like this if it were me. Had that link broken during the warranty period, I would expect a replacement at no cost and any thing it might have broken as a result of its failure. If it broke a second time knowing that I was doing little or nothing to cause it to break, that is, normal use, I'd be getting concerned. The lift link is way to easy to over build and not ever have fail, it's a simple part. I don't know if it was your lift link that broke more then once or the sways. If either was breaking in a fashion as you suggest they were doing "usual" tractor work, it would be a real worry. Repair it, ask another JD dealer what would be required to have it reapired to JD's standards, either weld or replace the casting, I think they would recommend replacement and sell it knowing you have brought it up to their standards. Go check out the new 4310 to see what they have changed if anything on the arrangement. Rat...

_RaT_ · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Looking at the picture of your broken lift link, is that a zerk fitting sticking out? It appears that way, my International has a pivot there to allow movement, it also has a zerk. My Kubota does not.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 20, 2003

iamgott:

After reading through this thread, got a chuckle.

THIS WAS ATUALLY MY SECOND 4300, THE FIRST WAS JUST AS BAD, BUT I FIGURED IT WAS A LEMON SO I BOUGHT A NEW ONE, "RIGHT" 

1) Why, why, why, why would anyone buy a second tractor after the problems, lousey dealer, etc. with the first? Perhaps, after you buy 2 or 3 more, it may dawn on you that maybe you should get something else.

2) In one of your posts, you claim to have "lost" $20k because of your troubles with JD. That would buy a real nice NH or KUB (or a more solid JD model than what you have). Take the guy in Ft. Wayne up on his offer to take it off your hands and get on with your life.

3) It is always a challenge (and sometimes fun, though frustrating) to "solve" a problem by figuring out what's wrong, how to fix it, etc. But if you are using this thing to make money, why are you wasting your time trying to get it fixed? If you have the money, and are interested in challenges, keep it and fiddle with it on the side. If not, sell it today, take your loss and get something else.

4) If you really think it is a weak part that is the problem, and you want to keep the tractor, go to a machine shop and have one made out of high grade steel. How many times do you have to be hit over the head before it dawns on you JD isn't, can't, or whatever, going to solve the problem for you? Solve your own problems yourself.

5) Most manufacturers have problem models, problem parts, etc. But JD, more than many, is mainly a marketing company (and they're good at it). Don't forget, they have THREE divisions. You bought something from their "consumer" division. That ought to tell you something.

6) I've never understood masochism. Why keep beating yourself? Take your loss. If you're trying to make money with a tractor, move on. From your posts you have allowed JD to waste your money, aggravate you. Try to LEARN from the experience. When you have a problem, figure the cheapest way to get out of it, get over it and move on. The world is not the way you might like it to be, it is the way it is. Your wishing it was different will not change it one iota. Your wishing your tractor will work right, after it has failed you time after time after time, will not make it so.

JEH

rockyridgefarm · Jun 20, 2003

( You bought something from their "consumer" division. That ought to tell you something )

Half right. The division is C&CE . Consumer & Commercial Equipment.

rancar · Jun 20, 2003

Don't forget, they have THREE divisions. You bought something from their "consumer" division. That ought to tell you something. 

What does this say, grimreaper? And how is this supposed to influence iamgott's decision to buy or not to buy a John Deere product? He bought in good faith thinking he was buying a quality product. Please educate the rest of us on the C&CE line of equipment which includes all of the 4x10 series tractors, if you are indeed suggesting these are inferior tractors. There are many of us in these forums who own the range of 4x00 and 4x10 series tractors who are quite happy and pleased with them.

...Bob

Chief · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Just my thoughts after looking at the broken trans casing pics.

I have been around John Deeres and many other brands or tractor for over 25 years to include working as a mechanic at a very large JD dealer and I have yet to see a failure such as this. The clean break without any evidence of corrosion or impact damage so close to the casing ear would indicate to me that the mounts were subject to EXTREME and REPETITIVE lateral sudden stoppage stress which eventually weakened the mounts and led to the repeated failures.

If an impliment and lift arms are allowed to sway back and forth without any restrain such as adjusting the link arms to limit this movement; this type of failure can be expected.

I don't even let my 3 pt. hitch arms flop side to side when empty. I wrap bungee cords around them to keep them restrained holding pulled together. Common sense would indicate that hearing the arms bang back and forth would require immediate action to prevent this. When I have heavy impliments on the hitch such as my tiller. I set the arm stabilization links to hold the lateral sway to an OBSOLUTE minimum. With this much weight on the hitch arms, the leverage is tremendous. That is why John Deere built the link arm sway link adjustment to begin with.

I feel for your loss and PITA but it looks like it was improper use of the hitch that caused the repeated failures. I strongly believe this failure would have occurred on any make tractor. I would suggest that you get the John Deere Rep to show you how to prevent this after this next repair.

John Deere is more than happy to provide classes and training on their equipment. I recently purchased 15 JD 4710's for the 101st Airborne and the John Deere Rep. gave classes to all the operators and spent a week doing it. Anytime there was a question or an operator/maintenance issue; the John Deere Rep. was out on the location like white on rice.

I use a Land Pride LR 1584 landscaping rake for pretty much the same purpose you use the blade to maintain my driveway. The rake weighs over 300 lbs. and have not had any problems such as the issure you describe. I do however set the sway links to limits side sway to the absolute minimum. I think this was what John Miller 3 was referring to.

I am posting this information NOT to flame or cast blame but to share information on proper technique of use to prevent future breakage and damage. The 3 pt. hitch on yours and my tractor is limited to 2,200 lbs. capactity. The draw bar is limited to 562 lbs. There is also a bold face print step on pg.41 of the operator's manual that states the following:

Adusting implement Side-to-Side Sway

Note: Check implement operator's manual procedure for adjusting sway links. When sway link have been properly adjusted, side to side sway of implement is controlled by position of the links.

NOT the mount ears on the transmission casing. I hope this info. will be of help to you and get you on the road to future satisfaction with your tractor and its long break free life.

The service manager should have explained these points to you the first time you brought the tractor in for these repairs. Best of luck on getting things fixed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Thanks Rancar, I have re-edited many threads as I was really upset and I know some of what I said was rubbing some the wrong way, while others just want to be a smart @88!!
As I had said, to the one who wants to come get it. If you want it, come get it, just bring $15,000.00 with you, I'll even throw in a trailer.
Also, this is not a loss as some see it. If this machine would have held up like it should, I could have pad it off plus bought a new bigger one. As it stands, it has barely paid its own way, actually not even that.
And as Rancar has said, there are many that are pleased with their tractors, Im just having an ongoing problem that could probably be remedied if someone would assist me in looking into it.
many of my problems were also due to shoddy workmanship and to some extent, I believe an dishonest dealer. I know I started the post out with fairly strong wording, but again, if some of you guys were in my shoes you'd be screamin just as loud.

And many seem to be missing what I believe is the most important part, IT BREAKS WHEN IN THE UP POSITION, AND NOT EVEN BEING USED

Gary_in_Indiana · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Ed,

I'm not "offended" at all. I was very sincere when I said I didn't understand why you felt the need to apologize with the "Sorry Guys" in your heading. I honestly couldn't understand why you'd even think I might be offended. It's not like you said something like 'All you Deere guys are (whatever)' or anything like that.

Frankly, I think if I'd had the problems you've experienced with any manufacturer, I'd be unlikely to continue to buy their products, too. I'd certainly have looked for a different dealer before I had half the problems you've had with yours.

I'm a lot more proactive than most and am sure I'd have had a factory service rep involved long before this (when there was plenty of warranty remaining). The flip side is I'm probably more familiar with the hierarchy of who can do and authorize what within the manufacturer/dealer situation, too. That helps more than I can tell you.

As to your comment that my post was "surely an attempt to inflame (you) even more", nothing could be further from the truth. As I said above, I sincerely didn't (and still don't) understand why you'd have used the "Sorry Guys" bit in your heading. If I go buy a Kubota (what I originally set out to buy) or a New Holland (which I liked but the dealer folded while I was looking) I won't feel any compunction at all to apologize here. Maybe I'm wrong in feeling that way, but as I told you in my earlier post here, it's my money and I can spend it however I choose.

As to your comment that "evidently, (I) only read what (I) wanted to read", I have to heartily disagree. First, I know for a fact that I read every word of the entire thread before I posted. Frankly, your use of all caps, bold all caps and colors at different points made that difficult, but I persevered. I fail to see what you mean by what you wrote here. Just because I didn't offer you sympathy for your plight doesn't mean I didn't read about it.

As I re-read my earlier post then re-read your reply, I notice a couple of things. First, I never wrote anything negative to or about you in any way. Second, your response to me was personal in nature. While I didn't and still don't think you need to apologize for changing brands, I do think you should apologize for that.

If you think this is "an attempt to inflame (you) even more", let me assure you it's not. I'm just once again speaking to you sincerely. You accused me of something wrongly and unfairly and I think you should apologize.

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I apologize Gary, but the "I'll come get it" sorta rubbed me the wrong way. I guess I misunderstood or took it the wrong way. Actually, Im a lil delerious with anger and frustration, this morning Im doin better, Im gonna go out and start attempting to repair it. The dealer wanted $750 to do it, and at this point, I just cant justify it. Plus Im now paranoid of their mechanic and tactics. Again, I hope you accept my apologies Gary.

Gary_in_Indiana · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Ed,

Accepted... and nothing more to be said of it. Just so you'll know, my "I'll come get it" was intended rather "tongue in cheek." I'm sorry it wasn't taken that way. I know how easy it is to take something the wrong way when you're upset and frustrated. I've had days when "Hello" was the wrong thing to say to me. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

buzst · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

I'm no expert on this but it seems to me that you can either have lateral stress on the sway link or lower arm but not both at the same time. So if the sway links were not adjusted to prevent stress on the bracket than they would not have any stress on them and thus not broken. maybe the mulitple failures of the sway links caused the stopage stress you refer to.

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Apreciate your reply Gary,
I guess more than anything, what has me upset, is the fact that the dealer repaired many things on this machine that did not need repairing, and in John Deere's eye's, makes me look worse than I am. When the Loader malfunctioned, "3 times" they replaced the wrong parts, then they lied to me, and I think they even aquired some new hydraulic cylinders "free of charge" for their inventory, and possible other parts.
Thats just "ONE" instance.
I am working on a little bio for er'one to read "if they wish".

The 4300 is an awesome machine, but I still have one problem without resolve.

The dealer and Mechanic added insult to injury and they wont come clean, and this truly disturbs me

I feel they are doin their best to keep the area rep. or other "higher ups" away from me, as they know they have lied to me "at my expense",
Repeatedly repaired items which were not in need of repair
and just plain bad shop practices and other things

Anonymous Poster · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Having posted very little in this forum, and not owning a tractor of my own, I would perfer not to inflame any tempers. This thread has come a long way from where it was and I would now like to post an honest question.

As I have said in another thread, I am seriously looking into a JD4310 for use with multiple 3pt attachments. Having seen what can happen when things go wrong, and having heard some people hint at possible solutions, I would like to take this chance to learn something.

What is the proper way to adjust a 3pt implement? 

I know this might sounds like a very basic question, but this thread has made me wonder. If someone out there could be so kind as to make a step by step list of the procedures they have (successfully) used to connect implements, I would greatly appreciate it and I'm sure other's may learn from it as well.

Thank you,
Mark

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Well, with the problems I been having, you may not have faith in my installation/adjustment, but:
Im not sure if the 4310 has sway chains or brackets "like mine", but-
I keep the sway brackets adjusted outward and fairly snug to keep draft links centered on the "attachment points" of the various implements. This does not require rocket science, You have to adjust it to "FIT" to be able to even connect the implement. the further outward you can adjust the drag links, the less "right / left" downward stress on the whole assembly.

As for the lift link and turnbuckle, the turnbuckle is there so you can adjust the angle of the blade, so there is actually no set way to adjust it, when first installed, it should be evenly threaded "both halves" and installed on a level "boxblade" or level with the oposite side. it depends on what you are doing.

As for the upper control arm, "tilt adjustment" "pivot back and forth" this controls whether your blade cuts forward or back, or the amount it cuts going either direction. This, you set your blade/implement on level ground and adjust so that it is level "along the edge, side of the blade. On hard ground, there should be an even spacing along the entire bottom edge of the blade "between it, and the ground surface".
You do however, have to make sure you do not ever over extend it, or shorten it to much, as this could cause it to bottom against the rockshaft housing assembly, or not allow enough travel down "if to short" which could result in unexpected damage, and severe!!
When first assembling these links etc. make sure you allow even spacing of the threaded portions, and that you have ample threades engaged "if done to proper dimensions for the application, this "should" occur by itself. On brush hogs, mowers etc. I have found this may need to be extended quite a bit, in relation to like a "box blade"
This is not a step by step procedure as I have put it, there may be a procedure for each and every "different" impliment and its application. Dont let my original posts worry you, actually, aside from "some breakage" "which SOME could be due to pilot error", I also have had some bad dealer experiences, and an unexplained problem with this one link.
I hope this helps, and if anyone see's where Im doin somethin wrong, let me know!!!

rancar · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

"...What is the proper way to adjust a 3pt implement?..." 

Mark...

Implements made by different manufacturers may be different in design and operation. While there are likely some general rules of thumb that can be delineated, every manufacturer (whether John Deere, Woods, Land Pride, etc) provides an operations manual that specifically provides instructions on different adjustment procedures for different operational conditions. Minor nuances may exist among the different manufacturers and specific, hard and fast rules for adjustment may be difficult to delineate. It's always best to read and understand the procedures as laid out in the operations manual for the implement in question before one attempts to make adjustments.

...Bob

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

All that typing for nothin, lol. But yes, Rancar is right. What I said is a basic operational description of how "I" understand "my" attachments. But then again, if you buy a used or "off" brand implement, or as like in my case, "my brand new box blade came with no paperwork at all" maybe what I typed may be of some help.

Golfgar4 · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Boy! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

After reading through all of these posts, I think this is the first time I'm kind of glad I haven't gotten my tractor yet! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I was just wondering, Ed. If you've had all of these problems with the dealer and the mechanic, and believe me, I absolutely believe what you've been telling us, have you considered taking the machine to an independent mechanic? Surely you could find a qualified tractor mechanic around there somewhere that could help you out. Now I realize that the work would not be covered under warranty, but is it really being covered now? Doesn't sound like it to me. You might be way ahead by going somewhere else to have the work done.

Just my $0.02 worth! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

iamgott · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

Thanks golfcar4!!
Well, actually, no, it ran out of warranty last month. I had inquired about the extended warranty, but my saleman also misinformed me that the deductable was $500.00. Thinking this was true, I did not opt for it. Now, only later did I actually find out it was/is $250.00 ded. If I had been aware of this, I would have got it. I have been told, I might still be able to get it, but the machine must be in good working order and undergo an inspection prior to aproval. But with the transmission going out in my truck $1,500.00 and a blown headgasket on my Dump $$unknown, and the $400+ I had to shell out for these parts, Im litterally broke, so even after I get the machine back together, Im not sure if I'll have the money to get the extended warranty, or if it will still be available. Actually, I am perfectly capable of doing my own repairs, but while it was under warranty, they would not permit me, except for a few little items. I just disasembled the machine and am getting ready to remove the axle housing, rain chased me indoors. Yes, I dont have a covered garage, at least one "accesible?" I hate those trick words,,lol

Anyone have any pointers before I remove this housing? Anything gonna go "BOOO,,,iiing?? yea, Im perfectly capable,,,hehehe

JohnMiller3 · Jun 20, 2003

Re: Sorry Guys, no more Deere for me!!

4300 3-Point Hitch parts

Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

1 M123745 PIN 1

2 19M7865 BOLT 2 M8 X 16

3 AM125811 SUPPORT 1

4 24M7055 WASHER 1 8.400 X 16 X 1.600 MM

5 11M7080 COTTER PIN 1 2.500 X 16 MM

6 CH19220 SPRING 1 (W/O CAB)

M136396 SPRING 1 (W/ CAB)

7 AR62149 QUICK LOCK PIN 6

8 34M3851 SPRING PIN 2 4 X 24 MM

9 AM119697 CENTER LINK END 1 LH THREAD
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

10 CE17590 PLUG 2

11 AM119699 CENTER LINK 1

12 14M7278 NUT 1 M24

13 AM119698 CENTER LINK END 1 RH THREAD

14 CH11409 PIN FASTENER 1

15 CE17307 SPRING PIN 1

16 CE18325 LIFT LINK 1

17 T21901 BALL 1

18 M120789 LINK BODY 1

19 RE42504 HANDLE 1
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

20 JD7798 LUBRICATION FITTING 1

21 99M7016 PLUG 2

22 M120791 YOKE 1

23 AM126169 LIFT LINK 1 RH

24 M120905 PIN 2

25 M90337 STOP 4

26 AM126167 DRAFT LINK 2

27 A3581R SPRING LOCKING PIN 2

28 CE18326 LIFT LINK 1

29 34M7030 SPRING PIN 1 5 X 20 MM
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

30 M120791 YOKE 1

31 T21901 BALL 1

32 JD7798 LUBRICATION FITTING 1

33 99M7016 PLUG 2

34 AM126168 LIFT LINK 1 LH

35 LVU13387 PIN 2 (SUB FOR M124515)

36 14M7328 LOCK NUT 2 M16

37 ........ BUSHING 2 - XXXXXX (NLA) (ORDER M138943)

38A ........ BOLT 2 - XXXXXX (ORDER M138943)

38B M138943 BOLT 2 XXXXXX -
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

39 M136096 PIN FASTENER 1

40 AM126932 STABILIZER 1 FEMALE

41 AM126866 STABILIZER 1 MALE

42 M84180 RING 1 (SUB FOR M120514)

43 AM126163 STABILIZER FOOT 2

44 M137645 PIN FASTENER 2

45 M84180 RING 2 (SUB FOR M120514)

46 AM119874 CENTER LINK 1

.. LVB25072 KIT 1 DRAFT LINKS, TELESCOPING (INCLUDES LVA10606(RH) AND LVA10607(LH)) (NOT SHOWN)