425 or 1430?

MountainJJ · Jul 28, 2005

Hello all, I have read as much of the forum history as I can and find this to be a great place and a great brand of equipment.

I recently acquired 10 acres in the Sierra at 4000'. Sloping property with a year around creek and about 8 acres in forest, mixed cedar, pine, fir and oak.

I have access to a Case 480 backhoe/loader and it does a ton of work quickly on the flatter areas. I have some areas that are truly over 100% slope, you can't even hike those. I have a couple of acres that are about 20 degree angle or less. that I would like to civilize with irrigation, fruit trees, grapes, garden, walking paths etc. Lots of fence to build and maintain and snow removal on about 250 yards of roads. Also the removal and burning of about 20 years of down wood and burnable (in the winter only up here) debris.

I have considered and driven several CUTs but they seem as unstable and potentially fatal on the slopes as the Case 480 is. All being narrow track with rather high COGs

My question to those of you that have seen or used these power machines is to help me understand the value and capability difference and make a choice between the 425 and the 1430.

The mix is that for the really heavy stuff on the flat I have a Case 480, but I still have lots of work to do on the steeper parts.

Your thoughts, recommendations, direction and links are all appreciated.

Thanks,

SnowRidge · Jul 28, 2005

Welcome to the group.

In your case, the first thing I would suggest is to call Power Trac in Tazewell and ask for Terry. He may be just a little hard to get ahold of, but when you do, discuss the two units' relative slope abilities and what their respective engine's angle operating limitations are. Terry is tech support, not sales, and tends to be the most knowledgeable person there that is readily available to customers.

Knowing nothing else, I would bet on the diesel powered 1430 at that altitude and working those slopes.

You are sure to get other opinions here, though. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

pajoube · Jul 28, 2005

I can't speak on the 1430 but the elevation for the 425 will be no problem. I'm at 4600 feet and have a 425 which performs very well at this elevation.
Regarding the projects you plan and area to maintain, again the 425 should do well.
PJ

FOURTEEN · Jul 28, 2005

The 1430 is larger, heavier (~2x), less maneuverable, louder, can lift more, and is more expensive (~$7000)!

For most uses, the 425 is handier, powerful enough, more agile, and uses less expensive attachments!

The 425 with a PT Grapple Bucket and reversed wheels is amazing at woods cleanup, flat or not!

For heavy duty dirt work the 1430 is better!

They are both excellent machines. It just depends upon which one will do YOUR jobs best!!

With my son running a chain saw, and I running my PT-425 with the PT Grapple Bucket, we easily cleared this ice storm clutter. While he felled and cut up, I transported and burned.

MountainJJ · Aug 15, 2005

My search continues. Thanks for all of the data. That is one huge log, I'm impressed.

I called Power Trac today and talked over my setting. They recommend the 1430.

They said that the 425 is rated to 20 degrees and the 1430 is rated to 30 degrees. With my slopes the 1430 is indicated.

I really like the size of the 425 better and with the $6K less I can afford some more attachments.

Choices are never easy for me.

Thanks for all the help.

bbabineau · Aug 15, 2005

MountainJJ

I have read your post with some interest since I am in somewhat the same situation as you. My property is only 3 acres and is on the central coast of CA; however I too have slopes that need to be mowed and will require some grading and excavation to prepare them for garden and perhaps some grapes.

I noticed in your post that you use the term 100% slope and then also 20 degree angle. I won't challenge your having done your homework but I know this was a real difficulty concept for me until I found a conversion chart that made it clear as to the conversion from percent to degrees.
The 20 degrees rating that PT is claiming for the 425 is equivalent to 36.4% and the 1430 at 30 degrees is 57.7%. You also indicate that you have some slopes exceeding 100% which would mean exceeding 45 degrees.
I too have the slopes which exceed the 20 degrees of the 425 but I am torn about the size and cost of the 1430. If I can get away with ignoring the slopes in excess of the 20 degrees, I may opt for the 425 based solely on economics.
I am attaching the conversion chart for you information.

Regards

Bob

MountainJJ · Aug 15, 2005

Bob,

Thanks for the slope chart. I do know the difference, just don't write as well as I should. I actually have every terrain up to including 20' vertical rock cliffs. I have about 5 acres of cedar, pine, fir forest that is largely on 45 degree slopes. This I will not be using any motorized stuff on because it falls to cliffs and a creek, too dangerous. I have about 3 acres that I'm doing almost exactly what you describe, planting fruit trees, grapes, garden, barn and water features, clearing about 800' of road from our 60" of annual snow (road is growing). I have limited logging and loads of down trees to clear.

I find it interesting that there is 10 degrees of slope capability improvement with the 1430. I don't know if I would have the nerves to drive that across slope at 30deg, that is almost too steep to comfortably walk across for me, let alone up. I'm impressed even with the 425 20 degree capability.

I called power trac today and they are looking for California folks with 425's and 1430's that might be willing to show or even just talk and/or email with me on this choice. Perhaps many of thier customers are not on this board. I'll share what I find with you as I go on this post and in PMs (if it has contact information of your use).

Life is good when your worries are how big of a tractor you need. We are truly lucky to have this board and this opportunity.

Best,

SELKIRK · Aug 16, 2005

I was in the same boat as you are with the 425 and the 1430. So last week I cashed in some Amex points and flew to Tazwell with my 12yr old son. Mowing was a big point of my concern as I have 65+ fruit trees to get around on appx 3 acres of land (or I should say my sons has 65+ trees to mow around as he is the primary mower).

We test drove both the 425 and 1430 with the finish deck on and found that 425 was more nibble but the 1430 not that far behind.

With that in mind I went with the 1430 as I always tend to overbuy the first time around so I don't have to upgrade at a later date. This has almost always paid for itself in the long run on the many prodjects that I have taken on. It does not cost that much more if the cost is spred over it's lifetime 20+years. That what I told my wife!

Also I kind of view a engine choice as diesel(mule) vs gas(horse). They both eat a cup of grain and crap the same but the mule will pull a plow a lot longer and harder while the horse will pull like mad then have to take a rest for awhile.

On my other uses the 1430 is so much more machine it was no choice to go with it over the 425. Although if I had more time the 425 would also do the job with no problems.

After my son and I finished playing wtih the toys at Tazwell
we ended up with the following. Shipment due in this week!

PT-1430
60" finish mower
4 in 1 bucket
18 cu.ft. bucket
mini hoe
60" tiller
(3)extra attachment plates to build out(forks, boom pole,reciever,etc.)

If you have any questions just ask or email me and I'll send my phone # over.

Terry

MossRoad · Aug 16, 2005

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

KentT · Aug 16, 2005

( I find it interesting that there is 10 degrees of slope capability improvement with the 1430.
)
I'd guess that at least part of that difference is the different lubrication systems in the engines -- and not the "rollover" characteristics of the tractors themselves.

The gas engines are rated for use at 25 degrees or less, so I think PT is being conservative when they state 20 degrees. In comparison, the oil-cooled diesels probably can handle a steeper slope without worrying about oil starvation in the engine, since they have a much larger engine oil capacity to begin with...

Highridge · Aug 16, 2005

Congrats! Post some pics when you get it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

bbabineau · Aug 16, 2005

Mountainjj

There are at least three PT owners in CA from the listings posted on this forum. One you may want to look up is Phils who is located in Cherokee, CA. There is also one in San Jose but I cannot seem to find his name at the moment.

I think I may have to make a trip to Tazewell as I would like to see and drive both the 425 and 1430 before making my decision and I don't think there are any 1430's in CA.

Bob

Bob

pajoube · Aug 16, 2005

Welcome to the family, thank you for posting.
I like your comment about engine types.
What state do you live in? Fruit trees, with that many you must have a commerical operation that keeps you busy.
PJ

gooberjkf · Aug 16, 2005

Hello,

I too made a visit to Power Trac last week. As noted in my earlier post last week, my primary function will be mowing. However, snow removal, and bush hogging will also be done.

I must admit, I was VERY impressed with the PT EXCEPT for mowing. Maybe it's me, but I had a very low opinion of the mowing deck. I thought the cut was very poor as it really doesn't discharge the clippings and I was covered from head to tow with grass due to the rear discharge. I'm surprised that the deck has absolutely no baffling.

If they offered a decent side discharge mower, I would have bought the 1430 while I was there. IMO, the 425 is an AWESOME unit, but GROSSLY underpowered.

As a result, I've decided to buy a Ventrac 4200.

Just my 2 cents.

Joel

pequeajim · Aug 16, 2005

Well, best of luck to you with the 4200. It is a nice tractor and will do really well in the mowing department. I would suggest getting the duals with it too as this will give you much more stability on the slopes.

If you find that you need to do some loader work, go out and rent one. Don't waste your time in buying the FEL for the 4200. For what you pay, you can rent a real loader many times over and will not get frustrated as you will with the lightweight VT version.

Best to you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jim!

MountainJJ · Aug 17, 2005

Thanks for this note on the under powered nature of the 425. Do you mean it feels weak in all activities or is it low on power only for mowing? I ask as I have no mowing to do in my forest setting.

Thanks,

MuncyBob · Aug 17, 2005

I doubt I would have bought a PT just for mowing...for me it's a FEL that also mows. I am however lost on your head to toe clippings situation...50+ hours of mowing on my 422 and my clippings are laying in the lawn.

SnowRidge · Aug 17, 2005

" I am however lost on your head to toe clippings situation...50+ hours of mowing on my 422 and my clippings are laying in the lawn." 

Happens to me too. My wife won't let me in the house if don't go over myself with an air hose first. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Of course, a rear discharge was a requirement here. A side discharge just covers our little trees with grass clippings. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

MossRoad · Aug 17, 2005

50+ hours of mowing on my 422 and my clippings are laying in the lawn 

Mine, too. There are lots of clippings on the front of the tractor, but hardly anything on me. Except when it is bone dry like it is now. Then the dust kicks up pretty bad. But that happens with a side discharge, too. I've only mowed three times this year; that's how dry it is. Only thing growing is weeds. I need to hack them down this week.

gooberjkf · Aug 17, 2005

Thanks to all for the info provided. A couple of things to follow up on here.

I'm aware of the limitations of the VT for FEL work. Having said that, I think the VT will be adequate in this area for me, since it is not what I will be using the machine for the majority of the time. Another advantage to the VT in my situation, is that the local dealer has most of the VT attachments available for rent, so I don't have to buy those that will be used infrequently, such as the FEL.

As for the grass clippings covering me up. Granted, I was mowing grass at the Tazewell location that had grown very tall and was mowed a couple of days before I arrived on the lowest deck setting, thus creating one **** of a mess in the only area they have to demo. Yes, after mowing for just a few minutes, I was absolutely covered with clippings, dust etc. Scott, did indicate that I could attach a rubber deflector on the rear of the 425 deck like the one they use on the 1430 deck that would probably help quite a bit. He was unsure why they hadn't already done this for the 425.

Regarding the power. In this tall, but very dry, grass on a level field, the mowing really pulled the engine down significantly. Further, I've read on this forum, that many complain that the 425 is underpowered while climbing slight inclines with the PTO engaged, particuarly while mowing or bush hogging.

The 1430 has no power issues at all. Again, my concerns with it was the way that it mowed. Unfortunately, perhaps I'm misjudging it because of the condition of the field in which I was mowing. However, that is the only thing I have to judge it by. I also would prefer something a little more maneuverable than the 1430. Having said that, if the cut had been comparable to the VT, I would have bought it on the spot.

After giving this additional thought last night, I'm not ready to abandon the PT quite yet. I had a couple of additional thoughts. I could buy a 425 and if I'm really unhappy with the mowing, then I could still buy a ZTR for mowing and have no more invested than I'll have in the VT 4200 series as some have suggested I do. In order to go this route, I really need to be comfortable that the 425 is capable of doing a very good job bush hogging, particuarly tall thick wet grass on some inclines. Can anyone comment in this area.

Another option is to reconsider the 1430. I could live with the lack of maneurability (still maneuvers much better than a coventional CUT), but I need to be assured that it mows better than what I experienced. Perhaps, the field I was mowing is to blame.

Having said all of this, Scott at PT, also thinks the 425 is underpowered for mowing and brush hogging applications. As far as the mowing cut, Scott said the decks do fairly well if you mow frequently, limiting the amount of grass being cut to around an inch. If that is the case, then maybe I'm off base. As indicated in my original post, I do mow frequently, usually every 4 days unless the grass slows down during hot dry periods. However, even mowing this often, during the months of April, May and June, often I'm cutting more than an inch even while mowing every 4 days because we tend to be fairly wet and grass grows quite quickly here during those months. And yes (as you've probably guessed) I like a well manicured lawn. That's not to say that the entire 4-5 acres needs to look that way.

Are any of you within a couple of hundred miles of Staunton, VA? If so, I would love to come in see you in person, if you would allow.

Are any of you available to talk with via phone a bit further?

I like the PT and of course the price. Like all of you, I want to try and be sure I buy the best machine for my application. Like you, I don't want to under buy, nor over buy. Further, I take very good care of all of my equipment so I expect it to last for a very long time. I fully expect the unit that I buy to last for at least 20 years and hopefully 30.

If anyone wants to call me they are welcome to call my toll free office phone at 800-736-7229 ext 224.

Thanks fellows.

Joel