4 in 1 bucket tip

[MChalkley]

Gordon - It's ok, logging is more fun than sales, anyway. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Here's the link for the old post: http://www.tractorbynet.com/tractortalk/messages/1/1165.html?FridayJuly3019991046pm. It's got a couple of errors in it, I think - things that I learned more about later.

I had to upgrade the whole solenoid valve assembly. The problem is that the valve block won't handle a high enough flow - it has nothing to do with the solenoids themselves.

Yes, only the right spool has to be changed. If you've got a remote mount valve body, you may already have a non-regenerative dump circuit, though.

MarkC

 

[gordon]

Mark thanks for the link on the bucket.
One last question well maybe thats a fib but anyway. Did you end up using the same solinoid valves for the bucket jaw as well as the remotes? If so what are the rating on those valves if you know off hand and maybe the brand of valve and model number.

These valves are wired to the hot side of the key?

Yeah your right you can't sling mud and drop trees if your in sales. But it's alot warmer and also alot more boring being a salesman as well. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Once again thanks in advance
For any and of course all input.
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - No, check out the pictures in the "L4310 Enhancements" thread. The ones I put on the loader are humongous rascals, rated at 20 gpm. The ones I used for the remote valves on the back are very small, rated for only 3 gpm. I don't need much flow back there for implement control - in fact, I generally use flow restrictors in all the hoses to the implements.

I don't have the valve model numbers handy, but I can get them.

Yes, I've got the solenoid valves wired through a circuit that's hot when the key is on.

MarkC

 

[Keoke]

Gordon, Long tells me that they will make the bucket any size you want between 5 and 6 feet. So far I can not find a non-generative on dump loader control valve body for my JD970. That being the case I don't yet know how I am going to plumb the 4 way bucket when I get one.

george

 

[gordon]

George there has to be a valve out there some where for you. I've learned about the remote mount valve for a Kubota made by Husco. If you have a Kubota with a cab you might just have that valve. Now in your case I have no idea what JD uses but I would assume it's similar to the Kubota valve. I guess the bottom line to all of this is finding the right person with the right information. I was lucky I had someone who already went through mounting the bucket on a Kubota and he clued me in on all the ins and outs for a Kubota. So George if you trade your jd on a Kubota Mark could fill in any voids that you might have.
Keep diggin and you'll find the correct person with the correct information.
Gordon

 

[Keoke]

Hmm, Gordon I may switch to Kubota if only because of the high quality advice on Kubota's avaliable on this forum.
Maybe an M48 is the way to go. But then again it's no fun buying a tractor with all the goodies already on coming out the gate.
Jeez,what would Mark tweek on an M48????
Yeah, I know, the whole [censored] tractor!!
On the 4 way hydraulics, I will keep trying to find something that will work on the JD 970.
If you guys come up with ANY ideas please let me know.
I want that 4 in 1 bucket to badly to quit now.

take care,
george

 

[MChalkley]

George - Are you absolutely positive that your loader dump valve uses a regenerative circuit? If so, my next step would be to find out who makes the loader valve, then try to contact them directly to see if a non-regenerative spool is available.

If that doesn't work, I'd visit a Kubota dealer and order a remote-mount L-series loader valve. It'll fit because of the remote mount feature. You might have to do a little fabrication for the mount, but not much, I suspect.

And yes, it's probably true, I'd be tweaking the tractor, no matter how good it is when I get it. It's become a habit. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif However, I'm not opposed to trading up so I can be tweaking on something starting on a higher plane. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

MarkC

 

[Djwalker]

Gordon- If you have the remote valve with the cab you are set to go. I used the standard Long solenoid valve without any problem. They apparently changed the design slightly to eliminate the chattering since I haven't had any problem. The guy at Long told me that they had put a flow restrictor into one side of the valve to stop the problem. I suppose that makes the loader a bit slower but I haven't noticed any difference. I would try out the standard stuff before investing in too much effort. The only thing I ended up changing was getting two custom hoses made because the Kubota hoses were too long with the solenoid valve in place. I also ran the hoses to the bucket inside a nylon cloth protective sleeve to protect them from abrasion since they hang down between the loader arms.

Dave

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by djwalker on 11/28/00 10:16 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[richh]

Well George it would appear that Im a little late to the party here! I have to say I think that you should have gottten more imput than any sane person would want/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Mark went over my head on the hyd. stuff. Like I said it works ok could be better but I had to put a moratorem on $$$ out for tractor stuff, tires/4in1/top&tilt/ skid plate and now I hit the big 50 HRS. and Im switching over to amsoil more $$$$$ [will it ever end]! No new valves for now! But if I could of got the right one the first time around it would have ben great, and that's what Mark's tryying to explane, and what makes this board so gooooood! We should all be so blessed to be able to put it all in words so well.
The bucket I got is 64" which is a stander size. It has NO trouble grabing or hanging on to anying thing, the jaws open and close fast but the dump cycle is slower and does chatter at higher rpm.,sometimes? Maybe AMSOIL will fix this!! I here it does wonders/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Rich

 

[richh]

Gordon, I would have to go along with Mark GET THE BUCKET first! Knowing what you do in the woods in all I would bet alot of $$$$ that you could put it to good use, just moving brush alone! logon
Rich

 

[Keoke]

Mark, Gordon and Richh, finally got the scoop on the JD loader SCV. It turns out that my tractor has both a regen and a none regan position built into the one valve.
When moving the joystick to the right to dump the bucket the first half of travel, up to a slight detent, is non-regen. However, if you keep going to the right it then shifts to a regen circuit and speeds up the dump.
The SCV has a stop plate, that if used stops the rightward movement of the spool valve limiting you to the non-regen circuit only.
The bucket dump time with regen on is 1.8 seconds.
The bucket dump time with regen circuit out is 3.2 seconds.
Bottom line is, when doing a slow dump, up to half travel on stick, your in a non-regen circuit. Shoving the stick past the half way dent kicks you into a fast dump.
The reason that I never knew about this two stage dump before is that the dent is a very weak one and unless a person knew it was there you would never notice it.
For those wondering what regen and non-regen mean I will try to repeat Mark's definitons.
REGEN on dump means taking the fluid from the rod side of the piston and ADDING it as a booster to the fluid coming from the pump to the backside of the piston. This moves the piston foward at a faster rate speeding the bucket dump.
NON-RGEN simply vents the fluid on the rod side of the piston back to sump (trans case) in a conventional way.
Got the dual SCV info from compact tractor board and a JD shop manual hyd circuit drawings.

thanks again,
george

 

[MChalkley]

George - Excellent news! You're all set. Now, all you need is the 4-in-1 bucket!

MarkC

 

[gordon]

Glad to hear that your all set up without having to go through changing valves or valve bodies. Amazing what can be learned off the tractor boards isn't it? Great news---like Mark said all you need now is the bucket. Keep us informed on your progress!
Gordon

 

[richh]

George, sounds as though you lucked out!!! I will have to time my dump time once and check it with dump time in the manual and see how much slower it realy is.
Rich

 

[jgh]

12/4

Richard, I like those pins /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif.

Any thoughts on how you decided on what size to use, etc; any particulars not evident from the picture, etc; would you change anything doing it again?

Does the 2 inches of protrusion work OK?

Sorry for the nitpicky ?s, but I gotta pay a welder so have to do it right the first time /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

Thanks,
J

 

[Keoke]

Richh, on the JD 970 bucket, dump time with re-gen on is quoted at 1.9 seconds and 3.2 without re-gen.
Both of these times are with engine screaming along at 2,600RPM. I suppose they use govern engine speed just to establish a standard. Of course nobody in their right mind would dump a bucket at that RPM.

take care,
george

 

[richh]

J - cold roll steel out 2-3" keep them as low as you can, this helps picking up smaller logs. Don't get carryed away on get them to sharp, just make them pointy. they sure work good/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
Rich

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Mark,

I was planning on hooking my 4in1 bucket to a third SCV valve (something available on a green tractor), that is actuated by a lever moving parallel to the rockershaft control lever. From what you are saying, it sounds like the solnoid valve is actually easier to use, even if you have a 3rd SCV valve. Is this true? It would eliminate the extra hose, and free up the rear SCV for a rear mounted implement.

Pat

 

[MChalkley]

Pat - On my last two tractors, I had a separate valve operated by a second lever. It was a royal pain to use, compared to the solenoid valve operated by the thumb button. I machined new handles for the second valve several times in an attempt to make it convenient to use, and got it to the point where it was a lot better, but still nothing like as easy to use as the thumb button. Some stink has been made about them not being durable, but I keep it covered with a plastic vitamin bottle tied to the handle when I'm not using it. If you were really paranoid about it, you could take a piece of rubber and cover the top of the handle where the button is all the time, or just cover the whole handle, but I've never found it to be a problem.

MarkC

 

[dmccarty]

Pat,

Get the valve that lets you use a button on the top of the FEL joystick. It makes things real easy. The name of the part is escaping me at the moment but it makes the 4n1 an even bigger joy to use.

A 4n1 is so danged useful it still makes me grin...

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty