2 Wheel Tractors - Buying & Using
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Here, gentlemen, is the "ultimate" in 2 wheelers. In fact its so large it has a sulky permanently attached (would hate to try and handle that one with handle bars!). I think it was made in the teens. The sulky is pinned to the tractor - you can see the swivel attachment in the pic. Two cylinder engine.
JEH
JEH
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ZJ_HR
Gold Member
Fresh colour? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyway, looks good /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Just a question: is it hard to steer Gravely with those duals?
Does it have differential and separate brakes?
Just a question: is it hard to steer Gravely with those duals?
Does it have differential and separate brakes?
RalphVa
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2003
- Messages
- 7,902
- Location
- Charlottesville, VA, USA
- Tractor
- JD 2025R, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010 & JD 1025R
I've a 5665 with a 12 hp Kohler engine. It was difficult to steer with and without the duals. What it needed, and now has, is steering brakes. The one shown in the picture has no brake bar. It could be the 8 hp, which would be a little lighter in weight.
Attached is a picture of mine before the duals but with the brake bar over the left side handlebar.
Ralph
Attached is a picture of mine before the duals but with the brake bar over the left side handlebar.
Ralph
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julichris
New member
I also have the Rotary Plow from Earth Tools and have used it to plow up about an acre of alfalfa in the past year (along with my 12 HP BCS 850). It makes a good seedbed in one pass and generally the alfalfa does not come back. It works best in softer soil. When it soil is hard it makes handlebars vibrate and the plow does dig deeply.
The main disadvantages for me are:
1) Slow - when plowing up alfalfa I need to go in first gear and the plow takes at most a 12" cut with each pass. It takes about 2.5 hours to plow an area 16'X150'.
2) It leaves a furrow. It may not be clear from the pictures which have been posted that the plow works by cutting into the soil on the left and throwing it to the right. You work the plow by running the right wheel of the tractor in the furrow from the previous pass, and the left wheel of the tractor on the unplowed ground.
The height of the hood over the plow can be adjusted, and a shield can be installed on the left side of the plow to reduce the dirt-throw. However, I have not found a configuration which will make the plow not leave a furrow at all. The furrow can be a nusiance to deal with subsequently. It's an anklebreaker.
3) My biggest problem with the plow is that it is very difficult to use across a slope. (My slope is 5-10%). When I make a pass across the slope with the downslope on the left, the plow works wonderfully. However, on the return pass, with the upslope on my left, the plow is very difficult to use. The weight of the plow attachment drags it down slope, and away from the untilled ground which it should be augering into. As a result, the plow only takes a 2" or so cut into the untilled ground unless you constantly muscle it into the unplowed ground. This is a constant problem for me. If anyone else has used the plow on a slope I would be very interested in hearing their experiences.
I agree with all the praise given to Joel from Earth Tools in Kentucky. A wonderful guy.
The main disadvantages for me are:
1) Slow - when plowing up alfalfa I need to go in first gear and the plow takes at most a 12" cut with each pass. It takes about 2.5 hours to plow an area 16'X150'.
2) It leaves a furrow. It may not be clear from the pictures which have been posted that the plow works by cutting into the soil on the left and throwing it to the right. You work the plow by running the right wheel of the tractor in the furrow from the previous pass, and the left wheel of the tractor on the unplowed ground.
The height of the hood over the plow can be adjusted, and a shield can be installed on the left side of the plow to reduce the dirt-throw. However, I have not found a configuration which will make the plow not leave a furrow at all. The furrow can be a nusiance to deal with subsequently. It's an anklebreaker.
3) My biggest problem with the plow is that it is very difficult to use across a slope. (My slope is 5-10%). When I make a pass across the slope with the downslope on the left, the plow works wonderfully. However, on the return pass, with the upslope on my left, the plow is very difficult to use. The weight of the plow attachment drags it down slope, and away from the untilled ground which it should be augering into. As a result, the plow only takes a 2" or so cut into the untilled ground unless you constantly muscle it into the unplowed ground. This is a constant problem for me. If anyone else has used the plow on a slope I would be very interested in hearing their experiences.
I agree with all the praise given to Joel from Earth Tools in Kentucky. A wonderful guy.
julichris:
Nice post. I've not used either the Berta plow (on the BCS) or my old Gravely plow on a slope so havn't run into that problem. Guess I'd have to always keep the downslope on the port side which, as you point out, would take even more time. I'll have to try the plow on a slope and see if I have the same problem. Have you tried adding weight to the front (or wheel weights-Joel's "bar bell" system works well and is inexpensive)?? Re the furrow, I've turned dirt with a moldboard and a disk plow. You always get a furrow. Guess the only solution if its a problem would be a quick run over it with a tiller to fill it in. Maybe ZJ_HR can give some advice on plowing on hillsides-from his posts he is in a hilly area?
You're right about the time for a first plow with the rotary plow. On the other hand, it produces a really good seed-bed so you save discing, etc. At worst a quick pass with a rake.
Also, of course, the 2 wheelers aren't designed to handle a huge area, although unless you're plowing dry high clay/silt soil seems like it ought to do better than 2000-2500 sq ft in 2.5 hrs.
Anyway, how long have you had your 850? I've only had mine for a short while, but it's sure better designed than the old Gravelies and nearly as solidly built.
JEH
PS RalphVa: is your 5665 bigger than the old Ls? My old 6.6L was never a problem to turn even with duals. The only problem turning the thing was with the rotary plow or the tiller at the end of a row-those old iron wheels sticking out front were a big pain to try doing a 180. But with mowers etc maneuvered real good.
Nice post. I've not used either the Berta plow (on the BCS) or my old Gravely plow on a slope so havn't run into that problem. Guess I'd have to always keep the downslope on the port side which, as you point out, would take even more time. I'll have to try the plow on a slope and see if I have the same problem. Have you tried adding weight to the front (or wheel weights-Joel's "bar bell" system works well and is inexpensive)?? Re the furrow, I've turned dirt with a moldboard and a disk plow. You always get a furrow. Guess the only solution if its a problem would be a quick run over it with a tiller to fill it in. Maybe ZJ_HR can give some advice on plowing on hillsides-from his posts he is in a hilly area?
You're right about the time for a first plow with the rotary plow. On the other hand, it produces a really good seed-bed so you save discing, etc. At worst a quick pass with a rake.
Also, of course, the 2 wheelers aren't designed to handle a huge area, although unless you're plowing dry high clay/silt soil seems like it ought to do better than 2000-2500 sq ft in 2.5 hrs.
Anyway, how long have you had your 850? I've only had mine for a short while, but it's sure better designed than the old Gravelies and nearly as solidly built.
JEH
PS RalphVa: is your 5665 bigger than the old Ls? My old 6.6L was never a problem to turn even with duals. The only problem turning the thing was with the rotary plow or the tiller at the end of a row-those old iron wheels sticking out front were a big pain to try doing a 180. But with mowers etc maneuvered real good.
RalphVa
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2003
- Messages
- 7,902
- Location
- Charlottesville, VA, USA
- Tractor
- JD 2025R, previously Gravely 5650 & JD 4010 & JD 1025R
I think my 5665 with 12 hp engine is heavier than some old Ls that I've seen. On hills, it was too much for me to handle without the aid of the steering brakes.
With steering brakes and all, turing it 180 degrees at the end of a row isn't too bad, long as it's a left hand turn (as steering brake arm is on the left). Gotta do it in 1st gear for the maneuvering. Also, the plow throws dirt too far in 2nd gear.
With the steering brake and sulky, you can pretty much one hand steer it, with just a gentle touch on the handle. Gotta always watch out for stuff a tire can hit that'll cause it to make a sharp turn on its own.
Ralph
With steering brakes and all, turing it 180 degrees at the end of a row isn't too bad, long as it's a left hand turn (as steering brake arm is on the left). Gotta do it in 1st gear for the maneuvering. Also, the plow throws dirt too far in 2nd gear.
With the steering brake and sulky, you can pretty much one hand steer it, with just a gentle touch on the handle. Gotta always watch out for stuff a tire can hit that'll cause it to make a sharp turn on its own.
Ralph
julichris
New member
JEH, thanks for the reply.
I do use Joel's barbell wheel weights whenever I use the Berta rotary plow. His barbell wheel weights are nice and inexpensive (my only complaint with the setup is that the pin he provides to use at the end of the barbell vibrates loose easily and I had a few incidents with all the weights sliding off the barbell until I replaced his pin with something more substantial).
I also recognize that the furrow is inevitable while plowing, at least under some circumstances. A pass with rototiller does work fairly well to fill in the furrow.
I have had my 850 for a little over one year, since last September. My wife and I run a small market garden and use the BCS extensively; it is our only non-human power source. The tractor itself seems reliable and well built. The controls are easy to use. With experience I am able to switch implements very easily - experience is key there - the first few attempts were frustrating! The only maintainence I have needed to do on the tractor is some fairly simple adjustment on the tension in some of the cables, which tend to get slack with use. I had one highly annoying incident with the Kohler engine - the oil drain plug was overtightened at the factory and the threads stripped.
Also a universal joint in the drive train for my brush mower recently tore in half, apparently because it was simply faulty. The replacement is covered by warranty.
My attachments are the Berta rotary plow, a five tine cultivator with 30" toolbar, potato digger, brush mower, and rototiller. Potato digger, rotary plow, and cultivator are not standard BCS implements, but all are avilable from Earth Tools.
It would be great to have an inexpensive grain drill for the walking tractor. I have no good way of planting cover crop seed (small grains, clover, buckwheat, etc.) except broadcast and then rototill or cultivate. The cultivator doesn't do a wonderful job of covering seeds and it binds it up if there is any long, viney residue in the soil, and it is hard to steer in soft soil. I would rather avoid rototilling to incorporate the seed because excessive rototilling is damaging to soil structure. Ferrari in CA sells a grain drill for walking tractor but it is very expensive (I believe $3000 or so). By contrast I suspect I could buy an old 5'-8' grain drill for 4-wheel tractor at auction for $100 or so. Sometime a 2 wheel tractor is not that economical...
Also I find that the 2-wheel tractor is not useful for interrow cultivation of vegetables. Most of my rows are too close to allow interrow cultivation with rototiller (and even if I could use the rototiller, I would rather avoid it because it of the damage to soil structure). I do have the 5-tine cultivator which would be okay for cultivating except (1) the tractor has very low clearance so it is hard to drive it over plants while cultivating, and (2) when going across slope the cultivator has a tendency to slip downhill, and that's unacceptable when doing precise interrow cultivation.
I do use Joel's barbell wheel weights whenever I use the Berta rotary plow. His barbell wheel weights are nice and inexpensive (my only complaint with the setup is that the pin he provides to use at the end of the barbell vibrates loose easily and I had a few incidents with all the weights sliding off the barbell until I replaced his pin with something more substantial).
I also recognize that the furrow is inevitable while plowing, at least under some circumstances. A pass with rototiller does work fairly well to fill in the furrow.
I have had my 850 for a little over one year, since last September. My wife and I run a small market garden and use the BCS extensively; it is our only non-human power source. The tractor itself seems reliable and well built. The controls are easy to use. With experience I am able to switch implements very easily - experience is key there - the first few attempts were frustrating! The only maintainence I have needed to do on the tractor is some fairly simple adjustment on the tension in some of the cables, which tend to get slack with use. I had one highly annoying incident with the Kohler engine - the oil drain plug was overtightened at the factory and the threads stripped.
Also a universal joint in the drive train for my brush mower recently tore in half, apparently because it was simply faulty. The replacement is covered by warranty.
My attachments are the Berta rotary plow, a five tine cultivator with 30" toolbar, potato digger, brush mower, and rototiller. Potato digger, rotary plow, and cultivator are not standard BCS implements, but all are avilable from Earth Tools.
It would be great to have an inexpensive grain drill for the walking tractor. I have no good way of planting cover crop seed (small grains, clover, buckwheat, etc.) except broadcast and then rototill or cultivate. The cultivator doesn't do a wonderful job of covering seeds and it binds it up if there is any long, viney residue in the soil, and it is hard to steer in soft soil. I would rather avoid rototilling to incorporate the seed because excessive rototilling is damaging to soil structure. Ferrari in CA sells a grain drill for walking tractor but it is very expensive (I believe $3000 or so). By contrast I suspect I could buy an old 5'-8' grain drill for 4-wheel tractor at auction for $100 or so. Sometime a 2 wheel tractor is not that economical...
Also I find that the 2-wheel tractor is not useful for interrow cultivation of vegetables. Most of my rows are too close to allow interrow cultivation with rototiller (and even if I could use the rototiller, I would rather avoid it because it of the damage to soil structure). I do have the 5-tine cultivator which would be okay for cultivating except (1) the tractor has very low clearance so it is hard to drive it over plants while cultivating, and (2) when going across slope the cultivator has a tendency to slip downhill, and that's unacceptable when doing precise interrow cultivation.
ZJ,
It is only slightly harder to steer with the duals. It does have a diff. The only steering problems I usually have is ruts and bumps (roots, rocks) under one tire. The duals help with the ruts. Mine is a 10HP Kohler.
It is only slightly harder to steer with the duals. It does have a diff. The only steering problems I usually have is ruts and bumps (roots, rocks) under one tire. The duals help with the ruts. Mine is a 10HP Kohler.
bobodu
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2004
- Messages
- 960
- Location
- Whitley County,In.EIEIO
- Tractor
- Farmnought.Gravely Model L,Gravely Model LI,1941 Clinton two wheeler
Here's a photo of my Gravelys.
I think I'd rather use my Gravely plow than do nearly anything else out there in the back.We currently have two gardens at 70x70 feet.I do this with a '63 LI and mow the two acres with a "51 L and pull a couple of wheeless mowers mounted to a frame with casters.This gives me a 66 inch cut width.The whole key to plowing large areas is to start with a smaller oval and letting the plow "walk" itself round the ends.Keeping the dirt shield high will lessen the furrows a great deal.Can't say that I've ever had to plow on a hill...gotta go twenty miles south to even see one.Fella on the west end of the county had one in the fifties and he used to charge 5 cents admission for the kids to play on it.Got his house burned down when folks found out it was nothing more than 60 years of manure /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I think I'd rather use my Gravely plow than do nearly anything else out there in the back.We currently have two gardens at 70x70 feet.I do this with a '63 LI and mow the two acres with a "51 L and pull a couple of wheeless mowers mounted to a frame with casters.This gives me a 66 inch cut width.The whole key to plowing large areas is to start with a smaller oval and letting the plow "walk" itself round the ends.Keeping the dirt shield high will lessen the furrows a great deal.Can't say that I've ever had to plow on a hill...gotta go twenty miles south to even see one.Fella on the west end of the county had one in the fifties and he used to charge 5 cents admission for the kids to play on it.Got his house burned down when folks found out it was nothing more than 60 years of manure /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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RalphVa:
<font color="blue">With steering brakes and all, turing it 180 degrees at the end of a row isn't too bad, long as it's a left hand turn (as steering brake arm is on the left). Gotta do it in 1st gear for the maneuvering. Also, the plow throws dirt too far in 2nd gear. </font>
I always found it impossible to 180 with the plow-the thing pivots on the end of the PTO, so when you lift it (push down on the handle bars) to swing it around it always rotated. Re throwing dirt, does yours have an adjustable metal plate on the port side? You should be able to adjust that to direct the dirt down as you require. Anyway, the thing sure produces a good bed.
JEH
PS all the pics & discussion on the Gravelies kinda makes me wonder if I shouldn't have just kept what I had & did a complete restoration on everything - like JRobyn did with his sickle bar mower. Looks like he did a nice job and will end up working just like new. Sure would have been cheaper. On the other hand, the BCS is much better designed.
<font color="blue">With steering brakes and all, turing it 180 degrees at the end of a row isn't too bad, long as it's a left hand turn (as steering brake arm is on the left). Gotta do it in 1st gear for the maneuvering. Also, the plow throws dirt too far in 2nd gear. </font>
I always found it impossible to 180 with the plow-the thing pivots on the end of the PTO, so when you lift it (push down on the handle bars) to swing it around it always rotated. Re throwing dirt, does yours have an adjustable metal plate on the port side? You should be able to adjust that to direct the dirt down as you require. Anyway, the thing sure produces a good bed.
JEH
PS all the pics & discussion on the Gravelies kinda makes me wonder if I shouldn't have just kept what I had & did a complete restoration on everything - like JRobyn did with his sickle bar mower. Looks like he did a nice job and will end up working just like new. Sure would have been cheaper. On the other hand, the BCS is much better designed.
julichris:
<font color="blue">It would be great to have an inexpensive grain drill for the walking tractor. </font>
Don't know how much area you are talking about, but you could pin/bolt a series of hand seeders together (such as the earthway seeders). Elliot Coleman has sketches in one of his books. Also, Johnnys selected seeds sells a "high density seeder" (link below-although you are probably familiar with them). As you mentioned, an old grain drill would also work. It should be easy enough to hook up to the BCS using the same system as attaching a cart, etc. (the curved coupler bar inserted in a iron pipe bolted to the implement). Even better, an old horse drawn drill would already have the seat attached-just bolt a 1 1/4" iron pipe to the tounge and you're ready to go. These 2 wheelers are really a mechanical "horse."
Johnny's selected seeds
<font color="blue">My attachments are the Berta rotary plow, a five tine cultivator with 30" toolbar, potato digger, brush mower, and rototiller. </font>
How does the potato/root digger work? I had planned to buy one but Joel didn't have any in stock when I got my tractor. Does it bring them up nicely and leave them on the surface? Have you used it for other root crops?
<font color="blue">the tractor has very low clearance so it is hard to drive it over plants while cultivating </font>
Are you using the standard 10" tires, or the 12"? One of the things I disliked about my old gravelies was those 8" tires. 15" would be even better (but affect ground speed of course). Of course, even if bigger tires helped clearance, they wouldn't do much for slipping cultivator on hill.
<font color="blue">With experience I am able to switch implements very easily - experience is key there - the first few attempts were frustrating! </font>
Are you using the quick hitch system? If not, and if you switch implements very often, it is worth the money. Just be sure to looki at the positioning of the PTO lugs on tractor & implement before trying to slide them together so they are not dead on (i.e. one set of lugs at say 12:00, the other at say 10:00 or 2:00). One afternoon a couple weeks ago I used the chipper, finish mower and tiller-only took about 5 minutes total time in changing implements. Much easier than a 3 point hook up/switch.
JEH
<font color="blue">It would be great to have an inexpensive grain drill for the walking tractor. </font>
Don't know how much area you are talking about, but you could pin/bolt a series of hand seeders together (such as the earthway seeders). Elliot Coleman has sketches in one of his books. Also, Johnnys selected seeds sells a "high density seeder" (link below-although you are probably familiar with them). As you mentioned, an old grain drill would also work. It should be easy enough to hook up to the BCS using the same system as attaching a cart, etc. (the curved coupler bar inserted in a iron pipe bolted to the implement). Even better, an old horse drawn drill would already have the seat attached-just bolt a 1 1/4" iron pipe to the tounge and you're ready to go. These 2 wheelers are really a mechanical "horse."
Johnny's selected seeds
<font color="blue">My attachments are the Berta rotary plow, a five tine cultivator with 30" toolbar, potato digger, brush mower, and rototiller. </font>
How does the potato/root digger work? I had planned to buy one but Joel didn't have any in stock when I got my tractor. Does it bring them up nicely and leave them on the surface? Have you used it for other root crops?
<font color="blue">the tractor has very low clearance so it is hard to drive it over plants while cultivating </font>
Are you using the standard 10" tires, or the 12"? One of the things I disliked about my old gravelies was those 8" tires. 15" would be even better (but affect ground speed of course). Of course, even if bigger tires helped clearance, they wouldn't do much for slipping cultivator on hill.
<font color="blue">With experience I am able to switch implements very easily - experience is key there - the first few attempts were frustrating! </font>
Are you using the quick hitch system? If not, and if you switch implements very often, it is worth the money. Just be sure to looki at the positioning of the PTO lugs on tractor & implement before trying to slide them together so they are not dead on (i.e. one set of lugs at say 12:00, the other at say 10:00 or 2:00). One afternoon a couple weeks ago I used the chipper, finish mower and tiller-only took about 5 minutes total time in changing implements. Much easier than a 3 point hook up/switch.
JEH
ZJ_HR
Gold Member
julichris,
Sorry, I haven't any experience with rotary plow. I saw turnable (left/right turning) rotary plow, so maybe this is answer for your slope problem. Look here just for info.
BTW, you gave me idea about buy one (used, cheap, of course) for plow mum's garden, instead of hoeing /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Sorry, I haven't any experience with rotary plow. I saw turnable (left/right turning) rotary plow, so maybe this is answer for your slope problem. Look here just for info.
BTW, you gave me idea about buy one (used, cheap, of course) for plow mum's garden, instead of hoeing /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
julichris
New member
JEH:
Regarding a grain drill for the 2-wheeled tractor - I find a single Earthway seeder difficult enough to push, and I think 4 or 5 bolted together would be very straining, at least in our soil, which is silt to clay and fairly compacted. An old grain drill, horsedrawn or not, might work as you describe. I can't make a judgement on it right now but I might think about doing it in the future.
Unfortunately I have not used the root digger so I cannot comment on it. I have used all the other implements I own, most of them extensively, but because of some difficulties (not with the root digger itself) I did not have an opportunity to use it this year. Next year I plan to.
I use the quick hitch and agree it is invaluable.
Regarding a grain drill for the 2-wheeled tractor - I find a single Earthway seeder difficult enough to push, and I think 4 or 5 bolted together would be very straining, at least in our soil, which is silt to clay and fairly compacted. An old grain drill, horsedrawn or not, might work as you describe. I can't make a judgement on it right now but I might think about doing it in the future.
Unfortunately I have not used the root digger so I cannot comment on it. I have used all the other implements I own, most of them extensively, but because of some difficulties (not with the root digger itself) I did not have an opportunity to use it this year. Next year I plan to.
I use the quick hitch and agree it is invaluable.
Here are some similar links:
