2-Stage pump driven by PTO?

[N8ghz]

Last year I modified a PTO coupler to drive a pump that was the main pump on a Cat electric fork-lift. I added a tank,etc. to a tractor and used it to run a 3-pt splitter. It worked & split anything, but was pretty slow...even with the PTO in the 1000 rpm mode. This didn't surprise me, as I knew it was sized for a 36vdc motor's rpm.

Anyhow, I am contemplating making a mount to bolt on (above the PTO shaft), a 2-stage pump and drive it with a chain off of the PTO. If I do this, I will first try an 11gpm 2-stage pump, as it can work off of a direct-drive 5hp gas engine. So, I have plenty of PTO Hp and only need to deliver the ~5hp to the pump. When looking at chain power ratings, I find it surprising that it looks like #35 chain would be better than #40. That seems to be due to diameters of the small sprocket as the limiting factor.

I am looking at using a 72 tooth on the PTO coupler and an 18 tooth on the pump....for a 4:1 ratio. That'd give me 4000rpm revved-up using the 1000rpm setting on the PTO. It'd allow me to not rev the tractor so high and stay closer to the 3600rpm that a 5hp gas engine would run at.

Any of you ever done anything like this?

Comment welcome.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

what you're planning to do isn't any different than what is done to gear up most electric pto generators. I want to do the same thing as you are doing with a pump that was installed in a chev truck to power the hoist. I don't have any idea how fast the original pump would have been spinning being driven off the transmission of the truck, anybody reading here know?

 

[Leejohn]

Yes I did, but I only had to go 3 to 1 my pump is a single stage. I used #50 chain.

 

[mrmikey]

Leejohn, if that is a Barnes 2 stage pump ( can't tell from the pic) did you have any problems with the side load on the input shaft? I didn't think they were made to take any kind of a side pull with the 1/2" dia shaft.....Mike

 

[N8ghz]

If I do it, I intend to use an out-board bearing on the pump shaft. I will incorporate it into the bracket that will hold the pump. I intend to bolt the bracket to the tractor above the PTO output shaft with 2 bolts into the rear-end housing below the turnbuckle bracket.

<rockin> I did some reseach on Muncie PTO's and associated hydraulic pumps for an Allison trans in a Topkick.
According to Muncie, the Topkick PTO must be running at 1100rpm at the minimum. The PTO's are available in slightly different ratios, but he indicated that the one I'd want was 1:1. Muncie pumps that fit that unit are available in various GPM's ... ranging from 6 to, I think, 17 GPM. They put out more if run faster.
The Kodiak/Topkicks control the engine speed via the cruise-control button, after turning on the PTO dash switch. This setup is intended for the truck sitting still, not driving down the road.
I have not done this, but I assume at 1:1, that the engine RPM is also 1100 when the PTO switch is ON. To raise the RPM, the cruise button will raise and hold at whatever is wanted. I think 2000 is the highest RPM achievable when in PTO mode? I know this, because I test-drove one that someone had accidently left the PTO button ON.....it would not run down the road....(limited) by the fact that PTO was ON.

I added all that in case someone cares about Topkick PTO's.

For your parts, you may be able to trace some pump numbers & find out what it puts out and at what RPM at the PTO shaft. From there you can choose how you provide that RPM at the pump.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

I appreciate that information. This pump wasn't out of a topkick, just a 2 ton model but there won't be that much difference in rpm speeds.

 

[N8ghz]

<rockin>

Take a look at this PDF.

http://www.munciepower.com/clientuploads/directory/Resources/MP/MP08-02.pdf

included in that, are charts showing each pumps' flow from 600rpm upto 3600rpm.

As you can see, the example I gave using an 11gpm, it does 11gpm @ around 1100rpm....but can do about 25gpm @ around 2400rpm

 

[284 International]

I am sure that will work, but just wanted to comment that I believe "best practices" would be to use sprockets of 73 or 71 and 18 teeth. This would keep the same teeth from bearing the maximum power pulse each time and should increase longevity for the sprocket and chain and would more evenly distribute the wear.

I am really interested to see this project go along.

 

[DRL]

This would keep the same teeth from bearing the maximum power pulse each time and should increase longevity for the sprocket and chain and would more evenly distribute the wear.

Can you explain this statement?

DRL

 

[N8ghz]

off topic, but to:

<284international>

I have (2) 284 Internationals, both diesels 2WD.
Bought one new in '82, and several years ago, I bought another one.