Backhoe 10 Series Backhoe Question...

[BillBee]

Here is a poor diagram of what the dedicated backhoe connections supposedly look like mounted on top of a single rear remote set manifold:

Anybody with a recent production 4110 or 3510 have this arrangement?

Dougster

Now you have me thinking. Unfortunately my tractor’s housed at the weekend place and I’m unable to see my exact setup for reference. Let me try to explain. First, my rear remotes are set up as you have illustrated in your above quoted response, which includes the auxiliary hydraulics that you have pasted onto the diagram. My backhoe (BH) is plumbed off of my loader valve as is the three point hitch (TPH). I must disconnect my TPH hydraulics to connect the BH hydraulics. It’s one or the other operating but not both simultaneously.

The swapping has never been a problem since there is no use for the TPH when the BH is mounted. If I had a diverter valve I would not have to perform the swapping of quick disconnects.

Be advised, the hydraulic quick disconnects that you pasted onto the diagram, operate with the TPH hydraulics, they do not operate as a stand-alone. The illustrated pasted quick disconnects are what I used for my hydraulic angle front snow plow with the control lever is adjacent to the seat. That is the reason I now need a diverter valve. I need to have the TPH and BH operating simultaneously.

I hope I have provided a clear explanation, the auxiliary hydraulics are powered off of the TPH hydraulics.

 

[Dougster]

Now you have me thinking. Unfortunately my tractor’s housed at the weekend place and I’m unable to see my exact setup for reference. Let me try to explain. First, my rear remotes are set up as you have illustrated in your above quoted response, which includes the auxiliary hydraulics that you have pasted onto the diagram. My backhoe (BH) is plumbed off of my loader valve as is the three point hitch (TPH). I must disconnect my TPH hydraulics to connect the BH hydraulics. It’s one or the other operating but not both simultaneously.

The swapping has never been a problem since there is no use for the TPH when the BH is mounted. If I had a diverter valve I would not have to perform the swapping of quick disconnects.

Be advised, the hydraulic quick disconnects that you pasted onto the diagram, operate with the TPH hydraulics, they do not operate as a stand-alone. The illustrated pasted quick disconnects are what I used for my hydraulic angle front snow plow with the control lever is adjacent to the seat. That is the reason I now need a diverter valve. I need to have the TPH and BH operating simultaneously.

I hope I have provided a clear explanation, the auxiliary hydraulics are powered off of the TPH hydraulics.

Thanks Bill - I know how hard it is to visualize these things when you can't just walk up to it and look! Thanks very much for trying!

And I should clarify that I pasted nothing into those ancient backhoe installation instruction photos. That was Bradco's crude way of showing how to mount its auxiliary backhoe bracket and couplings on top of Mahindra's existing rear remotes manifold. The offset angle of the bracket is apparently intentional on Bradco's part. Pretty silly artwork, I know! But not mine!

The bottom line is that your installation is apparently different than mine and different from these old instructions. I suspect that's partly because the instructions are based on an old loader valve that's no longer used.

But I am still confused on a couple things... and maybe this is a terminology issue as opposed to a physical one. May I just ask for now... do you have the A+B levers (by the seat) and A+B rear remote sets plus those auxiliary BH couplings? Or do you have one lever (A) and one rear remote set (A) plus those auxiliary BH couplings?

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I suspect that's partly because the instructions are based on an old loader valve that's no longer used.

Well, I was wrong. The various loader valves used over time are different brands/models... but they work exactly the same (including power beyond). Same exact ports... just in different physical locations. Sorry I let that throw me off track.

The good news is that I found an error (thanks to your input Bill) in the ancient BH installation instructions that solves the entire mystery. In effect, the ancient BH installation instructions require that you disconnect the power beyond line at the loader valve to feed the BH. When you are done using the BH, you are expected to disconnect the BH line from the loader valve and restore the power beyond line. The power beyond line goes off to power your 3-Pt hitch and any rear remote(s). End of story.

Now the question is: Is that approach a better or worse solution overall than using my one rear remote set for the BH with a latched control lever? Either way, I lose use of my one rear remote set when the BH is connected. Either way, I must swap hydraulic lines to power my grapple.

Looks to me like the ancient instructions may have been written generically to apply to any machine with or without a rear remote set. Hmmmmm...

Dougster

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Dougster
If you have access to a fax give me the number and I will fax you a plumbing diagram.

 

[Dougster]

Dougster - If you have access to a fax give me the number and I will fax you a plumbing diagram.

Hi Galen - I've got the basic plumbing and hose layout diagrams for the tractor, the FEL and the BH separately... just nothing that shows them all working together in the Mahindra recommended/preferred arrangement. If you have such an updated, integrated diagram for the 4110, I'd sure like to see it. If you do, I'll send you my fax number off-line.

But I'm more interested in your opinion as a top-shelf dealer on how the 509 BH should be connected when installed on a 4110 with one rear remote set. Would you do the connection to the loader valve PB port as per the ancient scrolls? Or would you use the one rear remote set with the control lever locked as my original purchaser's dealer did? Or has Mahindra come up with something even better since my 2004 4110/ML112/509 was assembled? It sure seems there should be a better (less limiting/no hose switching) way.

Also... I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask it anyway: How difficult and costly would it be to backfit the optional two rear remote sets option onto my one rear remote set 4110 tractor... second "next to seat" control lever and all? Yes, I know there are cheaper, simpler, more sensible solutions... but that would be the absolute cat's meow.

Although... Am I correct in speculating that using that second (B) remote set for my grapple would not be possible with the (A) lever latched for dedicated BH use (i.e., even if the BH weren't being actively used)? If so, is the solution as simple as changing the sequence so that the backhoe draws from the last (I assume B?) remote in the series? Or is it more complicated than that?

Dougster

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Dougster,
The power beyond setup is definately the setup that makes the most sense, being the 3PH is disabled to use the backhoe, and you couldn't use it anyway. Plugging into the rear remotes is the easiest setup when installing the backhoe, but it leaves you with no remotes for the grapple. The power beyond setup requires either three lines run to the rear or a switching valve in the power beyond line. Like I said, I would fax you a diagram. (It would be a hand sketched diagram) As far as adding an additional set of remotes, I have never sold or installed an additional set on the 4110 or 3510. So, I'm not sure how difficult instalation would be.
I just got to thinking, that diverting the power beyond may disable the remotes as well as the 3PH, and that wouldn't work for you. I will check into that and get back to you. The additional set of remotes may be the only answer for you. I'll let you know.

 

[Dougster]

I just got to thinking, that diverting the power beyond may disable the remotes as well as the 3PH, and that wouldn't work for you. I will check into that and get back to you. The additional set of remotes may be the only answer for you. I'll let you know.

From my tractor manual's hydraulic flow diagram, power beyond off the loader valve is first shown going to the rear remote set and then going on to the 3 pt hitch. With the BH line added (as described in the old instruction sheets) it would kill the rear remote set as well as the 3 pt hitch whenever the BH is connected. As you point out... who cares about the 3 pt hitch when the backhoe is installed? But if it kills the rear remote as well, there is little point in me making that change.

Dougster

 

[jpm]

hi dougster,if you look back about 4 pages in this section you'll find a post call adding remotes that i posted.this will solve your problems.rear remote works the b/h, the new ones work the front grapple plus the hyd.hoses are shorter and don't have to go under the tractor to the front. i hope this helps

 

[BillBee]

Thanks Bill - I know how hard it is to visualize these things when you can't just walk up to it and look! Thanks very much for trying!

And I should clarify that I pasted nothing into those ancient backhoe installation instruction photos. That was Bradco's crude way of showing how to mount its auxiliary backhoe bracket and couplings on top of Mahindra's existing rear remotes manifold. The offset angle of the bracket is apparently intentional on Bradco's part. Pretty silly artwork, I know! But not mine!

The bottom line is that your installation is apparently different than mine and different from these old instructions. I suspect that's partly because the instructions are based on an old loader valve that's no longer used.

But I am still confused on a couple things... and maybe this is a terminology issue as opposed to a physical one. May I just ask for now... do you have the A+B levers (by the seat) and A+B rear remote sets plus those auxiliary BH couplings? Or do you have one lever (A) and one rear remote set (A) plus those auxiliary BH couplings?

Dougster

I aplogize for the delayed response. I do have the A & B levers (by the seat) and a additional lever that operates the auxiliary hyd. I do have the A & B rear remote sets plus the auxiliary and use the auxiliary for the front angle plow. The auxiliary operates only when the 3PH hyd are connected.

 

[Dougster]

I aplogize for the delayed response. I do have the A & B levers (by the seat) and a additional lever that operates the auxiliary hyd. I do have the A & B rear remote sets plus the auxiliary and use the auxiliary for the front angle plow. The auxiliary operates only when the 3PH hyd are connected.

Hi Bill - It sounds like you've got it all! Before it sounded like the auxiliary was a dedicated PB line to the backhoe... and, when switched in at the loader valve, killed the 3-pt hitch and A+B remotes. Or, in other words, it was installed as per my ancient (2002) Bradco instruction sheet! Now it sounds like a very different arrangement... more like a third remote set... yes?

Dougster