How Would You Fix This Bridge?

[chim]

How will that help the deteriorating culvert?

Can't say for sure it would fix it. Hoped the concrete would plug up / reinforce the deteriorating culvert and eliminate more washout.

 

[charlessenf]

the bridge would have to become impassible before that would happen.

Who told you that?
Have you contacted the power company?

 

[charlessenf]

Most of the other properties that are accessed via the bridge are summer homes or absentee landlords who rent. Obviously, we don't get much support.

Where we are, it is possible for the property owners to petition the state to take over the road. Here a minimum of five properties is required. Have you checked on such an option in your state?
After all, all those vehicle license tag fees and fuel taxes y'all pay are to support road building and maintenance.

How many 'neighbors' are on your side of the problem?

First time a fuel truck refuses to cross the problem or the electric company - that would get their attention.

It looks pretty bad at the moment - have you sent pictures to all the other property owners along the way?

If the access is cut - they will see property value drop as fast as you. You might as a 'safety measure' block off one side/'lane' of the road to restrict access and slow everyone down while a solution is found (if not financed) to help get the message out.

Ooops, I'm assuming this culvert is on land you and the other octogenarian own outright. But still, a temporary block is just that - should anyone give you grief, you could likely just move it ot of the way.

Like that old joke about the well-trained mule and the two by four. First, you had to get his attention.

 

[chim]

We did something on a much smaller scale. Someone we wanted to help out had a pipe under the driveway that was deteriorating. We gathered SCH40 steel pipe, some equipment and a few good guys. We had to clean debris out of the old pipe, which wasn't fun in the cold weather. Then we pulled the replacement pipe inside of the old pipe. Since the length of the run was more than one length of pipe, we welded the two sections together. It was easier to maneuver the separate pieces and get them into position than to manhandle (Deerehandle?) one long piece.

 

[jmc]

Local excavator salvaged buried fuel tanks from abandoned filling station jobs to bridge a wide creek. I can't vouch for his engineering prowess...

 

[chim]

These are great times to think outside the box. We solved many "impossible" problems at work by having a sit-down and fire off whatever came to mind. What usually happened was some way off-the-wall comment served as a staring point for a resolution. I'll start:

Get a big balloon. Maybe like they use to roll big boats? Insert a pipe in the culvert that will be large enough for temporary flow. Slide the balloon in and inflate it. Pump concrete into any voids. After a day deflate the balloon and remove it and the temporary pipe.

 

[Snobdds]

I have a cabin in the middle of the National Forrest here in Wyoming. In order to get to the cabins, we have to cross a river. In the 50's, they put an old rail road car to act as the bridge. The steel back then had a lot of nickel in it and prevented it from rusting out, making it still good today.

We had to redo the abutments and we had a mechanical engineer that made a system to float the bridge if the spring run off got too high. Ingenious. Basically it was not rigid mounted to the abutment and was held in by a serries of cables that let it float.

We reinforced everything and put in new bridge decking. Still working good about 10 years later. Has not washed out with the big spring run-offs.

 

[jyoutz]

Where we are, it is possible for the property owners to petition the state to take over the road. Here a minimum of five properties is required. Have you checked on such an option in your state?
After all, all those vehicle license tag fees and fuel taxes y'all pay are to support road building and maintenance.

How many 'neighbors' are on your side of the problem?

First time a fuel truck refuses to cross the problem or the electric company - that would get their attention.

It looks pretty bad at the moment - have you sent pictures to all the other property owners along the way?

If the access is cut - they will see property value drop as fast as you. You might as a 'safety measure' block off one side/'lane' of the road to restrict access and slow everyone down while a solution is found (if not financed) to help get the message out.

Ooops, I'm assuming this culvert is on land you and the other octogenarian own outright. But still, a temporary block is just that - should anyone give you grief, you could likely just move it ot of the way.

Like that old joke about the well-trained mule and the two by four. First, you had to get his attention.

In my area, neither the state nor county will take over a road until you upgrade to their standards.

 

[charlessenf]

Context would be more helpful that fear mongering.

Right Arm!
It puts me in mind of the McDonald's Coffee Million Dollar lawsuit. Even before the Internet and it went as viral as it could pre-facebook.
Turns out 'everyone' had the story wrong - even as they all seemed to have different variations.
Headlines have always been 'clickbait,' albeit in other forms and heavy fines make for Headlines.
We need that Paul Harvey* fella with "The rest of the story."


* BOOMER ALERT

 

[bdhsfz6]

Can't say for sure it would fix it. Hoped the concrete would plug up / reinforce the deteriorating culvert and eliminate more washout.

Doing this isn't a permanent fix but by digging out along the cracks, we can get more concrete into the structure. I just did some quick checking and we've poured over 20 cu yds of concrete in various places in the last 35 years. If nothing else, the sheer weight is helping hold it in place.

 

[bdhsfz6]

In my area, neither the state nor county will take over a road until you upgrade to their standards.

When the property was subdivided in 1973, the developer tried to get the township to take over road maintenance and was told the same thing.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Who told you that?
Have you contacted the power company?

Yes. Power company says they don't need it. They said they would use track equipment and cross the stream at another location to gain access if the bridge fails.

 

[charlessenf]

In this part of the state, cases like this are relegated to small claims court.

$250,000 doesn't seem like a Small Claim in any state.
In the seventies, while at FAU, I sued General Motors (pro se) in Palm Beach, FL Small Claims Court and won a 800 judgment.

The money recovered from a single sale would be insignificant anyway.

As I understand it, in most jurisdictions a lien on a property (again from personal experience - albeit in Sarasota, FL) effectively earns interest at some state 'approved' rate (like a Tax Sale Lien) and a bank won't loan on a property until all liens are satisfied.

If you sued eight recalcitrant neighbors and put a proportionate lien on each property, you (or your estate - should you predecease the sale(s)) would be owed $200,000 in total before interest. The way it works, you neighbors come asking you ('re heirs) to remove the lien and you refuse absent accrued interest compounded monthly at say six (6%) percent (or maybe based on the CPI - if you're creative).

Got a Law School in your area? Post a notice "Looking for advice on suing neighbors to force them to chip in to repair common access bridge." Never know if there's some smart ass college kid who knows just enough law to be dangerous - and is creative enough to be successful.

 

[charlessenf]

When the property was subdivided in 1973, the developer tried to get the township to take over road maintenance and was told the same thing.

In my area, neither the state nor county will take over a road until you upgrade to their standards.

Right, makes sense. However you first need to get all the property owners on board/signed up (subject to upgrade costs). Then you can get the public entity to specify what needs to be done to satisfy their minimum standard(s).

You might want to contact the politicians you elected to get them on your side. Many love the opportunity to add another Favor Done Feather in their cap. Our guy writes of constituents aided every month and keeps a dollar tally!

Once you have all the facts, you are in a much better position to to say "yes" to a solution. re there any similar roads in your neck o the wood that have been adopted by the county or state?

Do you have open county commission meetings? Are the videotaped and rebroadcast on CABLE or YouTube? Is there a Public Comment on each agenda?
Do you still have a local newspaper? (Is it owned by Sinclair?)

 

[dodge man]

So to be clear, there are several other owners that use the bridge but they expect just you to fix this? I say screw em and let it wash out, then they will probably be begging for you to help them. Thats a bad situation to be in. We looked at a house once that had a private road with several houses using it. I asked him how the road maintenance was handled and he said everybody just “gets together”. We didn’t consider it.

 

[bdhsfz6]

$250,000 doesn't seem like a Small Claim in any state.
In the seventies, while at FAU, I sued General Motors (pro se) in Palm Beach, FL Small Claims Court and won a 800 judgment.

As I understand it, in most jurisdictions a lien on a property (again from personal experience - albeit in Sarasota, FL) effectively earns interest at some state 'approved' rate (like a Tax Sale Lien) and a bank won't loan on a property until all liens are satisfied.

If you sued eight recalcitrant neighbors and put a proportionate lien on each property, you (or your estate - should you predecease the sale(s)) would be owed $200,000 in total before interest. The way it works, you neighbors come asking you ('re heirs) to remove the lien and you refuse absent accrued interest compounded monthly at say six (6%) percent (or maybe based on the CPI - if you're creative).

Got a Law School in your area? Post a notice "Looking for advice on suing neighbors to force them to chip in to repair common access bridge." Never know if there's some smart ass college kid who knows just enough law to be dangerous - and is creative enough to be successful.

I'm not sure why we could go after a single property owner for $250,000 and how they could actually come up with it.

Attaching liens to 13 different property owners is more work than I'm willing to take on, considering I won't be around to see any of it. We have no heirs to worry about.

My only real concern is that the hearse can get across to carry me away.

 

[bdhsfz6]

So to be clear, there are several other owners that use the bridge but they expect just you to fix this? I say screw em and let it wash out, then they will probably be begging for you to help them. Thats a bad situation to be in. We looked at a house once that had a private road with several houses using it. I asked him how the road maintenance was handled and he said everybody just “gets together”. We didn’t consider it.

Smart move. I wish I had done the same thing when I bought the property back in the 1970's. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Situations like this are actually quite common in this rural part of the state though.

It wasn't bad at first. there were 9 property owners who contributed labor, equipment and $$ toward maintenance. Over the years, the good ones moved away or passed on, leaving just us two old guys to hold the bag.

Letting the bridge wash out will definitely happen in the near future. Sure, there will be people who come begging, but I'll be powerless to help, even if I wanted to. Much as it galls me, the two of us are stuck putting band aids on the thing, hoping it will outlast us.

 

[jmc]

Have the absent neighbors seen your pictures?! That, and giving them notice you and the other responsible resident can no longer physically maintain, much less repair, "our" bridge might get them off the couch.

 

[charlessenf]

everybody just “gets together”

Right, let's put that in the respective deeds! I did not consider this when I bought my house at the end of the private (ly maintained) road and it turned out only one neighbor would get together with me and chip in for the gravel and such.

One threatened my life when I went along plowing the snow so we might get to the main road - I called the Sheriff and they said he admitted it to them 'but didn't mean it.'

Another one threatened me and I took him to court (criminal offense threatening people) and when I got the chance, bought the mobile home and property he'd lived in and gave the mobile home away.

If and when I sell these properties, I'll put some sort of agreement in the deeds. If I'm lucky I may be able to buy them all out and resell them on my terms! (DREAMIN')

 

[Highlandr]

Right, let's put that in the respective deeds! I did not consider this when I bought my house at the end of the private (ly maintained) road and it turned out only one neighbor would get together with me and chip in for the gravel and such.

I guess my dad got lucky when he bought property with a shared driveway/road - only one other property though. Of course it helped when dad's opening gambit was, "I'll buy the gravel, you maintain the road."

Other guy had a tractor, dad didn't have to buy one.