Pick WinterDeere's next truck

[WinterDeere]

Yet another truck has rusted out on me, this time 11 years. Bed walls are bulging due to delamination behind spray-on liner, and eye bolts are just falling out. But outer body still looks presentable... maybe it won't totally kill me on trade-in. Truck has 52k miles.

I've been a "Ram guy" the last 20 years, for one reason: Ram offered manual transmission with a V8 and extended cab, while no other brand did. Now that's gone away, so I have less reason to stay with Ram, although I will admit they've been the most reliable trucks I've ever owned... rust aside. I've also grown to like the feel and controls of them, in fact we have three Dodge's in the garage right now.

The requirements:

1. Must be 4wd. My primary use of this vehicle is "bad weather days", when I don't want to drive my sports car or sedan in snow and salt. I also take it off-road several times per year, mostly when pulling a trailer.
2. Must have integrated trailer brake system, and will favor highest tow rating. I use this truck for pulling a 7k# trailer loaded with logs or tractor over hilly terrain and offroad.
3. Would favor lower roof height, as I also take this vehicle into old parking garages in Philly, where roof clearance is a constant issue. This is the sole reason I've been buying 1/2 ton trucks, despite 3/4 ton being more suitable for my trailer's ~1000# tongue weight.
4. I will always choose highest horsepower and highest rear gear ratio available. This is another area where Ram seems to outperform everyone else.
5. Yes, I would consider an EV, if it actually looks and feels like a real pickup truck. When I see numbers like 1000 hp posted, I don't understand how you can't be interested in driving that. I am a founding member of the HA = "Horsepower Anonymous" support group. But I ain't paying $100k for a pickup truck, so that may be off the table, anyway.
6. Not interested in diesel. Slow, and unnecessarily expensive, when I never get more than 70k miles out of a truck before it's rusted thru.

I don't have a specific budget. But I don't like throwing away money on anything, so it's going to be a matter of seeing where the market is, and then choosing "good value" for my dollar.

If there's any truck of any series or brand available with a manual transmission, I'm probably buying that. If there's one thing I hate more than any other mechanical device on earth, it is the automatic transmission. But it needs to be 4wd extended cab, and capable of pulling my trailer at highway speed, so not a wimpy v6 configuration.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

 

[jeepcoma]

If you want to move up from a 1/2 ton, any of the gasser 3/4 tons will fit your bill. Take each brand for a test drive and pick based on how you like the truck and how you like the dealer - they are all close enough capability wise for the technical specs to not really matter for what you need. You can get barebones or full on lux or anywhere in between. I also looked for manual transmissions, and gave up that search 10 years ago. Modern autos are not what they used to be in the "good old days", the 10-speed you can put behind the Ford PSD is a wonder. And the autos are actually superior for towing (RAM would de-rate their diesels to go behind the manual, since it's harder on the clutch).

I've driven my 1-tons (crew cab + 8' bed) in NYC and parked in underground garages and airport garages, and it's not a problem. You might need to plan ahead (I've called garages to verify height - once ripped my roof mount antenna off, whoops), and be OK with not parking in the "best" spots all the time.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Considering you may be inclined to the OPPOSITE of anything I suggest . . . just because or whatever . . . this may not be so useful, but you ask so we answer.

With the lineup (your spec. list) ram + not-a-freak-show + 1/2 ton really better than 3/4 + trailer + maybe EV-ish . . . ) really only truck lines up to one thing -- Dodge Ram-Charger or whatever they are call the 2026 (now 2027?) hybrid, etc.

Are they taking waiting list deposits? Do they still do that? I might do that. And just wait. That can tell your brain things are good, so you do not have to do paralysis by analysis.

And put some good walking shoes in the old truck when you are driving in case that one dies early. My apology to your feet, but that is what they were made for.

 

[Hay Dude]

Yet another truck has rusted out on me, this time 11 years. Bed walls are bulging due to delamination behind spray-on liner, and eye bolts are just falling out. But outer body still looks presentable... maybe it won't totally kill me on trade-in. Truck has 52k miles.

I've been a "Ram guy" the last 20 years, for one reason: Ram offered manual transmission with a V8 and extended cab, while no other brand did. Now that's gone away, so I have less reason to stay with Ram, although I will admit they've been the most reliable trucks I've ever owned... rust aside. I've also grown to like the feel and controls of them, in fact we have three Dodge's in the garage right now.

The requirements:

1. Must be 4wd. My primary use of this vehicle is "bad weather days", when I don't want to drive my sports car or sedan in snow and salt. I also take it off-road several times per year, mostly when pulling a trailer.
2. Must have integrated trailer brake system, and will favor highest tow rating. I use this truck for pulling a 7k# trailer loaded with logs or tractor over hilly terrain and offroad.
3. Would favor lower roof height, as I also take this vehicle into old parking garages in Philly, where roof clearance is a constant issue. This is the sole reason I've been buying 1/2 ton trucks, despite 3/4 ton being more suitable for my trailer's ~1000# tongue weight.
4. I will always choose highest horsepower and highest rear gear ratio available. This is another area where Ram seems to outperform everyone else.
5. Yes, I would consider an EV, if it actually looks and feels like a real pickup truck. When I see numbers like 1000 hp posted, I don't understand how you can't be interested in driving that. I am a founding member of the HA = "Horsepower Anonymous" support group. But I ain't paying $100k for a pickup truck, so that may be off the table, anyway.
6. Not interested in diesel. Slow, and unnecessarily expensive, when I never get more than 70k miles out of a truck before it's rusted thru.

I don't have a specific budget. But I don't like throwing away money on anything, so it's going to be a matter of seeing where the market is, and then choosing "good value" for my dollar.

If there's any truck of any series or brand available with a manual transmission, I'm probably buying that. If there's one thing I hate more than any other mechanical device on earth, it is the automatic transmission. But it needs to be 4wd extended cab, and capable of pulling my trailer at highway speed, so not a wimpy v6 configuration.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

You don't think you're interested in a diesel.....until you own one. $74,000. Sitting at D'Ambrosio Ram in Downingtown.
Don't test drive it because you'll buy it if you do. ZF-8 transmission. 1075TQ. 11,400 GVWR. 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Not slow, either.

 

[dodge man]

Look at Ford, the biggest reason is aluminum bodies don’t rust. They will easily tow what you want but for a tongue weight over 500 pounds you are suppose to use a weight distributing hitch. My 2017 F150 has a payload of 1944 pounds.

 

[jeepcoma]

Look at Ford

Says "dodge man" hah!

Personally, I prefer the Ford Superduty. I think they ride and drive better with a superior engine and transmission. The Diesel + 10 speed... amazing (I don't own one but have driven them with heavy loads, mine was a 6-speed). That said, I'm currently in a RAM 1-ton. The Cummins is OK, but the 6-speed transmission is a dog (newer ones have an 8-speed but I have not driven any of those). My current RAM has more specs on paper compared to my older Ford but in reality it drives like a slug. What I'll give it though is the engine braking is AMAZING, and for what I use the truck for, it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

As for the OP, if "HP matters, but no diesel" I've read a lot of good things about the Ford 7.3 "Godzilla" gasser. More power than the Hemi, and a 10-speed vs an 8-speed. This is why doing a test drive should be your main determination!

I don't know much about the Chevy options, I have never been impressed with their HD line and they don't seem too popular near me, so I can't comment.

 

[GSVette]

Says "dodge man" hah!

Personally, I prefer the Ford Superduty. I think they ride and drive better with a superior engine and transmission. The Diesel + 10 speed... amazing (I don't own one but have driven them with heavy loads, mine was a 6-speed). That said, I'm currently in a RAM 1-ton. The Cummins is OK, but the 6-speed transmission is a dog (newer ones have an 8-speed but I have not driven any of those). My current RAM has more specs on paper compared to my older Ford but in reality it drives like a slug. What I'll give it though is the engine braking is AMAZING, and for what I use the truck for, it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

As for the OP, if "HP matters, but no diesel" I've read a lot of good things about the Ford 7.3 "Godzilla" gasser. More power than the Hemi, and a 10-speed vs an 8-speed. This is why doing a test drive should be your main determination!

I don't know much about the Chevy options, I have never been impressed with their HD line and they don't seem too popular near me, so I can't comment.

I have a 26 Laramie Night Edition 3500-the ZF8 and Cummins are a beautiful match. I had been waiting for Ram to finally move to a transmission with more gears to really take advantage of the HO Cummins early torque and flat power band-they hit it.

Recently hauled our 30’ fifth wheel about 3k miles over multiple passes-engine never broke a sweat, transmission didn’t hunt, automatic exhaust brake is a really benefit on long downhills.

Overall really pleased.

 

[Snobdds]

You don't think you're interested in a diesel.....until you own one. $74,000. Sitting at D'Ambrosio Ram in Downingtown.
Don't test drive it because you'll buy it if you do. ZF-8 transmission. 1075TQ. 11,400 GVWR. 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. Not slow, either.
View attachment 5336801

If a camera was present at first sight...

 

[Hay Dude]

Says "dodge man" hah!

Personally, I prefer the Ford Superduty. I think they ride and drive better with a superior engine and transmission. The Diesel + 10 speed... amazing (I don't own one but have driven them with heavy loads, mine was a 6-speed). That said, I'm currently in a RAM 1-ton. The Cummins is OK, but the 6-speed transmission is a dog (newer ones have an 8-speed but I have not driven any of those). My current RAM has more specs on paper compared to my older Ford but in reality it drives like a slug. What I'll give it though is the engine braking is AMAZING, and for what I use the truck for, it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

As for the OP, if "HP matters, but no diesel" I've read a lot of good things about the Ford 7.3 "Godzilla" gasser. More power than the Hemi, and a 10-speed vs an 8-speed. This is why doing a test drive should be your main determination!

I don't know much about the Chevy options, I have never been impressed with their HD line and they don't seem too popular near me, so I can't comment.

That’s because Ram builds trucks for towing, not racing.
Also, you probably have the Chrysler 6 speed transmission, the optional Aisin transmission is better. I have one.
Now they all come with a ZF-8 speed that doesn’t gear hunt like the Ford 10 speed.

Ram’s 10yr/100k warranty and a true medium duty Cummins diesel with a ZF-8 is a unbeatable combo, but if speed is your thang, go GM or Ford.

But it don’t matter if the OP wants a gasser!

 

[Rustyiron]

Sounds like you want a 1/2 ton,
for the salty times. Aluminum is not the end all be all but it's miles ahead of a steel body that the other 2 offer.
My observation of the "other 2" backs this up and come time to move on the obvious body appearance is worth thousands!

 

[Hay Dude]

Sounds like you want a 1/2 ton,
for the salty times. Aluminum is not the end all be all but it's miles ahead of a steel body that the other 2 offer.
My observation of the "other 2" backs this up and come time to move on the obvious body appearance is worth thousands!

I know rust is a problem, but Winterdeere and I live in the same area, I have little problems with rust.

I do ONE thing practically no one else does. I wash the underside of my truck about every 2-3 weeks with a stream of hot water from a garden hose thoroughly during salting months and a little beyond. From just doing that, I have never owned a rusted vehicle.

 

[AntiqueIron]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but have you priced out fixing yours? I mean, you said it yourself- a new one is going to do the exact same thing.

A vehicle is a constantly depreciating asset.

I’d take it to a small independent body shop, get a quote on patching the bedsides, and checking the rockers and frame over.

 

[WinterDeere]

Lots of talk about eight speed and 10 speed autos, as if I don't already own three (yes.: three!) ZF8’s. They are indeed great transmissions, but I still hate driving auto, especially on snow or ice.

I'll buy auto if it's the only option, my current half ton has a ZF8. But if manual is an option, I will almost always ignore almost every other pro/con, and choose the manual over anything with auto.

And I've also owned diesels, and have zero interest in ever owning another. Slow, slow, slow. I'm not putting enough miles on this vehicle, or hauling anything heavy enough frequently enough, to ever see any advantage to diesel. Also, half our stations around here don't even carry diesel, what a stupid hassle to sign yourself up for that, if you're not hauling heavy trailers everyday.

If I could design my own truck, it would be a 1/2 ton 4x4 with beefed up rear suspension, 6.4L Hemi, manual transmission, and 4:1 diff's. But no one is making that!

 

[WinterDeere]

I know rust is a problem, but Winterdeere and I live in the same area, I have little problems with rust.

I do ONE thing practically no one else does. I wash the underside of my truck about every 2-3 weeks with a stream of hot water from a garden hose thoroughly during salting months and a little beyond. From just doing that, I have never owned a rusted vehicle.

Yeah, that's my fault. I drive the truck in salt and snow, and then never in nice weather to help it dry out. I also don't get around to cleaning the underside right away, as I'm not doing it myself, and the carwash lines are unreasonably long in the days after a snowstorm. I get to it as soon as I notice the line isn't too terrible, but that can be 10 days after a storm.

I take good care of my cars, but always at the expense of the truck. Use it up, throw it away, I've never met a truck I loved. They're just a slow tool, and the thing I'm stuck driving when the weather is too bad for something more fun, or what I'm hauling won't fit into the back of something faster.

 

[Eagle1]

Not all diesels are slow.....

 

[Hay Dude]

Lots of talk about eight speed and 10 speed autos, as if I don't already own three (yes.: three!) ZF8’s. They are indeed great transmissions, but I still hate driving auto, especially on snow or ice.

I'll buy auto if it's the only option, my current half ton has a ZF8. But if manual is an option, I will almost always ignore almost every other pro/con, and choose the manual over anything with auto.

Remember, the Ram HD’s come with a different ZF-8 than the 1/2 tons ZF-8.

And I've also owned diesels, and have zero interest in ever owning another. Slow, slow, slow.

What???? A high output Cummins, Duramax or Powerstroke isn’t slow.

I'm not putting enough miles on this vehicle, or hauling anything heavy enough frequently enough, to ever see any advantage to diesel. Also, half our stations around here don't even carry diesel, what a stupid hassle to sign yourself up for that, if you're not hauling heavy trailers everyday.

If I could design my own truck, it would be a 1/2 ton 4x4 with beefed up rear suspension, 6.4L Hemi, manual transmission, and 4:1 diff's. But no one is making that!

Best you can do there is tap the shifter button on an auto.

 

[WinterDeere]

Remember, the Ram HD’s come with a different ZF-8 than the 1/2 tons ZF-8.

Yep. Many different configurations. The one in my SRT Charger has a much better programming and personality, than the ZF8 in my Ram 1500 or our Durango R/T.

But who cares? You're all missing the point: I like rowing gears.

If I'm forced to buy auto, then yes... I'd want one that actually works well. But if there's any hope of avoiding an automatic transmission while still meeting my other basic requirements, I will.

What???? A high output Cummins, Duramax or Powerstroke isn’t slow.

Yes, they are all slow. My crappy little 1/2 ton Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi is substantially faster than all of those... and yet, still too slow.

My 2015 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7L Hemi is almost a full second faster 0-60, than any 2025 2500 diesel configuration. Literally, 5.4 seconds versus 6.3 seconds. That's huge.

Best you can do there is tap the shifter button on an auto.

Got that in my current truck... still hate it.

 

[WinterDeere]

It's more than a little amusing everyone here goes to diesel, for the usage profile I've outlined. In what way is diesel better, for someone who might drive a truck 5k miles per year for 10 years, and never haul any trailer heavier than 7k pounds?!?

Answer: diesel is worse than gasoline in every possible way, for this customer.

I know some of you guys are pulling 14k pound hay wagons and car haulers, and some are doing 25k miles per year, year after year. But I'm not that guy. I will sell this truck as a rusted out shell 10 years from now, and with only 30k - 50k miles on it, having never hauled anything anywhere near heavy enough to have made the expense of that diesel engine or the hassle in sourcing fuel from local stations, ever worth it.

 

[jeepcoma]

Rent a truck when you need to haul your 7k pounds. It's significantly cheaper, and you won't have to own a truck you don't like, deal with rust, or anything else.

 

[WinterDeere]

Rent a truck when you need to haul your 7k pounds. It's significantly cheaper, and you won't have to own a truck you don't like, deal with rust, or anything else.

Not practical. I just threw five 20" cube boxes in the back of my truck to haul up to the Lehigh Valley this morning, and will be towing a trailer with it tomorrow. I drove the truck maybe 4 times in 4wd thru deep snow last month. I'd be renting a truck 50x per year!

Besides, I drive on salt all winter. If it wasn't the truck rusting out from that, it'd only be one of my more expensive vehicles. The truck is the cheapest car I drive.

I also tow a trailer almost every weekend. They're just not all that heavy, as to yield any advantage from going diesel over 5.7L gasser.