Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[MossRoad]

...

But back towards the topic -- I think that should be a real concern for US and Humanity -- the rise of total (learned and now practiced) dependence on Electricity. We are really to the point (in just 100 or 150 or whatever years) -- that many folks cannot eat, or drink, or even breath without it.

Yep. I think about all the technological advances my grandma saw in her lifetime (1896-1994). Electricity, clean indoor plumbing, cars, airliners, air conditioning, etc... now, my mother in-law relies on oxygen some days. If the emergency tanks run out, no electric, no oxygen.

We have a wood burner and in a pinch, I could take the cap off the well and dip water with string and a small vessel.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

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Amazing how much of humanity went from ZERO Electricity just 100 years ago to an essential part of life now, huh?
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I would not want to live without a microwave. What a time saver!

-----------------------------
In 1926, the vast majority of rural American homes, which made up a significant portion of the population, did not have electricity.

Rural Areas: Approximately 90% of all farms in the United States did not have electricity in the 1920s.

I left the 19th century tech in place as I modernized the house. We don't have a wood cook stove, but can cook on top of the wood stove with no difficulty. We even have a hand crank coffee mill. I just saw a reflector oven online, and might weld one up for the wood stove. That's probably more trouble than it's worth. We have lived here 30 years. I have a 2 burner propane stove with a camp oven that I have never used.

Our power outages are in winter. I would not want to have to cook with wood in the summer, though I have a Weber kettle, a Texas smoker, and a nice fire pit with cooking grate. The fire pit is of limited usefulness in the summer because of fire danger.

I have thought about building a wood fired oven in the back yard but never not past buying a bunch of used brick.

 

[ponytug]

@Larry Caldwell FWIW: I have used reflector ovens and think that they have a single use case. For when you are stranded in a desert and you want to spend half the day to bake a loaf of bread.

With a wood stove, I much prefer a Dutch oven, or even just a large pot over a cast iron pancake griddle, or a thick steel plate.

I've lived in some pretty low tech ("Iron Age" level) and yes, a lot of modern life goes away, but I thought that it had its upsides. Peace and quiet, cozy evenings, and daily opportunities for solving today's issues, because if you do not solve it, it won't get solved.

That said, I am thankful for every warm shower with clean water that isn't going to give me some disease, and clean(er) living spaces, public health, mental stimulation, and modern medicine.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Hay Dude]

Understood. Really did not want to rub his nose in his self-generated nonsense. Figured if we could laugh about it, it may pass. That was the hay-hey-hay thing. I thought that was pretty funny.

Often people with problems, just have problems. And most folks just do the best they can. Thanks on your patience as a moderator. I will try to play and do better.

But back towards the topic -- I think that should be a real concern for US and Humanity -- the rise of total (learned and now practiced) dependence on Electricity. We are really to the point (in just 100 or 150 or whatever years) -- that many folks cannot eat, or drink, or even breath without it.

If you are going to say “amazing how much of humanity went from ZERO electricity 100 years ago” open ended to interpretation in your statement, then almost anyone would infer from that you are saying it was very small percentage.

It wasn’t. It was 35-40% over 100 years ago. That’s actually pretty substantial. Maybe it wasn’t “zero”, but your inference was much smaller than 35-40%.

Pretty simple really.

 

[rontaki]

If you are going to say “amazing how much of humanity went from ZERO electricity 100 years ago” open ended to interpretation in your statement, then almost anyone would infer from that you are saying it was very small percentage.

It wasn’t. It was 35-40% over 100 years ago. That’s actually pretty substantial. Maybe it wasn’t “zero”, but your inference was much smaller than 35-40%.

Pretty simple really.

We've had electricity since 1752, if you count Ben Franklin,

 

[Larry Caldwell]

We've had electricity since 1752, if you count Ben Franklin,

Oh yeah, old Backwards Ben, who guessed wrong which direction the spark jumped.

 

[MossRoad]

Interesting sight....

United States electricity history in four charts

Electricity in the United States has seen remarkable growth, with a significant shift from coal to renewable energy sources. Government policies and technological advancements have played a crucial role in shaping the energy landscape. President Biden's goal of achieving 100% carbon-free...

visualizingenergy.org

 

[MossRoad]

More interesting stuff... take it with a grain of salt.


find a chart with references that shows the percentage of homes in the world, not just the united states, but the entire world, had electricity 100 years ago.

Gemini said​

Finding precise global data for residential electricity access from exactly 100 years ago (the mid-1920s) is challenging because many countries did not begin tracking these statistics systematically until the mid-20th century. However, historical estimates from economic historians and organizations like the IEA and Our World in Data provide a clear picture of the era.
In the mid-1920s, it is estimated that less than 20% of the global population had access to electricity in their homes.

Key Context and Global Breakdown:​

• The United States: By 1925, about 50% of U.S. homes were electrified. However, this was heavily skewed toward urban areas; while nearly all city dwellers had power, only about 10% of rural farm families did.
• Europe: Industrialized nations like the UK and Germany saw similar urban-rural divides. In 1920, only about 6% of British homes were wired, though this grew rapidly to roughly 30% by the end of the decade.
• The Rest of the World: Across Asia, Africa, and Latin America, electricity was almost exclusively confined to major colonial administrative centers or industrial hubs (like mining operations). For the vast majority of the global population living in rural or non-industrialized regions, residential electricity was non-existent.
• Opens in a new window www.researchgate.net

Historical References for Further Reading:​

1. Our World in Data (Energy Access): Provides long-term historical projections showing the steep climb from near-zero global access in 1900 to roughly 15-20% by the 1920s.
2. Smil, Vaclav (2017). "Energy and Civilization: A History": A comprehensive look at the transition from traditional biomass to fossil fuels and electricity.
3. The World Bank / IEA: While their "Global Tracking Framework" focuses on modern data, their historical white papers often reference the "Second Industrial Revolution" era (1870–1930) as the period where the global gap between the West and the Rest of the world widened most significantly regarding infrastructure.

 

[ponytug]

Interesting sight....

United States electricity history in four charts

Electricity in the United States has seen remarkable growth, with a significant shift from coal to renewable energy sources. Government policies and technological advancements have played a crucial role in shaping the energy landscape. President Biden's goal of achieving 100% carbon-free...

visualizingenergy.org

Those are interesting charts and seeing them animated was more interesting than I would have thought, thanks!

I do think that the author slipped up on the math for the 4th/last one, as it seems to be at odds with the second one as they show nearly the same thing.

All the best, Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Those are interesting charts and seeing them animated was more interesting than I would have thought, thanks!

I do think that the author slipped up on the math for the 4th/last one, as it seems to be at odds with the second one as they show nearly the same thing.

All the best, Peter

I think I've seen something similar to the 2nd chart in and abstract art museum.

 

[Phil Timmons]

Yeah, a whole lot in a short time. And still something like 10% or so the world still has none? Wait until we do the other end of this game -- HVDC

World-Wide HVDC (High Voltage DC). We have some in the US . . . but again "retarded." (incoming ;P ). About 15 years we did some down the SF Bay. About 50 miles underwater, buried in the mud. On a note to the brighter future -- we do have some long-distance HVDC coming into Texas from far East US and West US.

Meanwhile China (yes China -- more incoming ;P ) is building and has "Ringed" (Big Loop, very reliable) China with HVDC, and has offered to hookup to US. The Sun never really sets, yunno. But we still have to work through the current crop of US ignorance and "Leadership." (cough)

 

[Larry Caldwell]

My school library had a copy of Dynamo Farm, about a 15 year old kid who home builds an electric generator. 4-H projects used to be like that.

Book Reviews, Sites, Romance, Fantasy, Fiction | Kirkus Reviews

www.kirkusreviews.com

 

[MossRoad]

My school library had a copy of Dynamo Farm, about a 15 year old kid who home builds an electric generator. 4-H projects used to be like that.

Book Reviews, Sites, Romance, Fantasy, Fiction | Kirkus Reviews

www.kirkusreviews.com

I built a small generator for a grade school science fair back in the early 70s. I recall magnets, lots of wire, sewing thread spool, handcrank, lightbulb.... can't remember it all, really.

 

[hoozie]

If we took the land we use for growing corn for ethanol and converted it to solar panels... we'd generate roughly twice our current electricity production per year. How's that for large scale solar.

On any given evening in California, the batteries are discharging between 3-8GW of power back to the grid for several hours. I remember looking at it a few years ago and being impressed when they hit a single GW discharge.

Today's Outlook | Supply | California ISO

Monitor real-time grid conditions. View current and historical data for demand, net-demand, supply, renewables, CO2 emissions and wholesale energy prices.

www.caiso.com

 

[MossRoad]

If we took the land we use for growing corn for ethanol and converted it to solar panels... we'd generate roughly twice our current electricity production per year. How's that for large scale solar.

On any given evening in California, the batteries are discharging between 3-8GW of power back to the grid for several hours. I remember looking at it a few years ago and being impressed when they hit a single GW discharge.

Today's Outlook | Supply | California ISO

Monitor real-time grid conditions. View current and historical data for demand, net-demand, supply, renewables, CO2 emissions and wholesale energy prices.

www.caiso.com

If we took all the land we use to grow corn for ethanol, and instead burned the corn for heat in our houses, and converted all vehicles to natural gas, we'd have no need for gasoline and hence, no need for ethanol. We'd only need oil for diesel trucks, trains and large ships.

This is due to best use of BTUs. Every time you convert something to something else, you lose BTUs. Corn burns clean with little waste. Natural gas burns clean, too.

It'll never happen, because of infrastructure, but it's the best use of BTUs.

 

[ponytug]

Yes, once you move to biomass, freight costs pile up very quickly, so it would work within 50-100 miles of a corn field, but beyond that the freight energy eats up more and more of the total BTUs, and things go down the drain quickly.

Anyone ever driven one of the gasifier vehicles not incommon in Sweden and Finland in WWII? Load the firebox with firewood, get it literally warmed up and off you go. Not many horsepower, but it got folks from A to B with no gasoline.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Larry Caldwell]

If we took the land we use for growing corn for ethanol and converted it to solar panels... we'd generate roughly twice our current electricity production per year. How's that for large scale solar.

On any given evening in California, the batteries are discharging between 3-8GW of power back to the grid for several hours. I remember looking at it a few years ago and being impressed when they hit a single GW discharge.

Today's Outlook | Supply | California ISO

Monitor real-time grid conditions. View current and historical data for demand, net-demand, supply, renewables, CO2 emissions and wholesale energy prices.

www.caiso.com

For how long? 1 GW for 15 minutes or 1 GW for 8 hours?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

People forget that when they make ethanol from corn they still have all the fiber, protein, and oil. Wet brewer's grains are a popular cattle feed ingredient near ethanol plants, but it is too heavy to ship very far. Dry brewer's grains take too much energy to remove the water.

Hogs and chickens/turkeys can also make use of brewer's grains, but not as much as cattle.

 

[MossRoad]

Yes, once you move to biomass, freight costs pile up very quickly, so it would work within 50-100 miles of a corn field, but beyond that the freight energy eats up more and more of the total BTUs, and things go down the drain quickly.

Anyone ever driven one of the gasifier vehicles not incommon in Sweden and Finland in WWII? Load the firebox with firewood, get it literally warmed up and off you go. Not many horsepower, but it got folks from A to B with no gasoline.

All the best,

Peter

I only learned about gasification a few years back. It might have been here on TBN for that matter. The subject was farmers running tractors on wood gasification during WWII with fuel shortages, as I recall.

 

[ponytug]

I only learned about gasification a few years back. It might have been here on TBN for that matter. The subject was farmers running tractors on wood gasification during WWII with fuel shortages, as I recall.

Isn't TBN great?

Yes, it was used it a number of types of vehicles, but lots of variables to get the fuel gasified, I.e. not simple to execute on, and if I were doing it today, I would be thinking of a rather different design to improve the efficiency.

All the best,

Peter