Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[Hay Dude]

Same as ROW through private property.

Some get free right of way maintenance

 

[gsganzer]

I would be interested in learning what the status is. I know that in my state near Carlsbad they have a federal nuclear waste depository in an old salt mine that is supposed to hold waste for millennia. But there have been numerous problems with leaking containers and contamination.

I worked on a project years ago where they did nuclear waste vitrification. The waste is turned into glass blocks, so no leaking or leakage can occur. Vitrification

 

[ponytug]

I might be wrong, but I think that only pertains to the waste from the 1st generation/conventional nukes. I think the new plants use a different version of fuel that can be reprocessed and the waste from those plants' decays in 150 years, not millenia.

The fuel may decay in a shorter time period, but the non-fuel reactor components will still get radioactive and will need long term storage as the radiation alters the mechanical properties and the service life.

All the best, Peter

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I worked on a project years ago where they did nuclear waste vitrification. The waste is turned into glass blocks, so no leaking or leakage can occur. Vitrification

The French have been doing that for decades. They vitrify their waste and dump it in the Marianas Trench, or at least they did 50 years ago.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

So the power co has a free ROW and the land owner should pay for damage? If you want me to trim trees for the ROW I should be paid. Will the government owned land with trees have to pay? Most of the power ROW goes through federal and state land around here.
If am responsible for damage I would not willingly provide a ROW through my woodland. I have granted a few ROW to power lines in my time, only one that was for my benefit. The rest were for new houses beyond my places.
I try to stay ahead but should I drop that dead tree leaning toward the power line to avoid being charged? Right now I make a call and the CoOp will come to schedule tree removal ASAP to avoid a problem. I get clean up the mess but that is not a problem for me.
Now if you are going to charge me for damage anyway, I'll gladly drop the tree and worst case I get a light show when it hits...

I should add the much of the power lines here to NOT follow the roads but go direct to where they were needed in the 50s and newer branches come off to feed newer houses.

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

 

[Phil Timmons]

You want/need a base line, constant supply, atleast meeting your night time demand, in spring/fall. You have summer demand, which is going to be day time, week day, peak, and its going to be high every day, but kinda a standard peak.

Winter time nights and mornings; those are less predictable, and generally lower demand, can spike to well above summer.

Solar production should deal with summer demand well, as more sun=higher demand. The winter peaks, thats harder, and thats where traditional can come in.

Hydro, it depends... some can run near peak 24/7/365; but not all. Some are much lower for large parts of time, and to some degree act as batteries; storing potential energy in the lake, to convert to kinetic when you open additonal turbines.

I dont know the numbers; but is the constant, low, seasonal demand only 10% of the peaks? That may be true, but would suprise me.

Sorry on the slow. I had lost this.

We are dealing with a couple sets of numbers with this. First part is the Peak. In all sections of the US, and across all seasons -- the Peak Demand is in the Summer, late afternoon and into evening -- about 40 or so days - Late to Mid July into Early August for about 5 hours a day. So 40 days x 5 hours is about 200 hours. If compared to the 8760 hours in a year -- that is about 2% of the time.

The amount of the Peak is about 750E9 Watt-hours per hour (the hours cancel out), so that is 750E9 Watts. Everyone's expectation is that US should be able to hit and cover the Peak, with a little spare as reserve, and generally US does this fine. The Peak is driven by the Heat of the Sun -- for Air Conditioning -- with both some seasonal lag (otherwise the First Day of Summer would be Peak), and some daily lag (otherwise solar Noon would be the daily Peak).

Hitting the Peak is the Big Trick of the year for the US Grid overall. Generally US turns on ALL the Nukes, ALL the Coal, and the available Gas, Big Wind, Hydro -- and now for the last few years all the quickly climbing Solar PV. Solar PV has now reached about 250E9 Watts, so if well aligned -- Solar PV alone can now carry about 1/3 of the Peak. Solar PV has been adding around 50E9 Watts per year, so at that rate, Solar PV could be carrying most of the entire Peak (another 500E9 Watts) within 10 years.

In prior Decades, US has built surplus (most of the time) Coal and Nukes to try to hit that Peak -- so they are still surplus most of the time, and Gas "Peakers" have been built to come on and specifically target the Peak(s). Below is an attached graph of the US Peak.

Let me know you made it this far, and we can do the other end of things -- Spring, Fall, and Deep Night Surplus.

 

[jyoutz]

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

It’s the agreement that the power company signs for rights of way. They are responsible for maintaining the R.O.W. They are supposed to remove trees that could potentially fall on the lines.

 

[paulsharvey]

Sorry on the slow. I had lost this.

We are dealing with a couple sets of numbers with this. First part is the Peak. In all sections of the US, and across all seasons -- the Peak Demand is in the Summer, late afternoon and into evening -- about 40 or so days - Late to Mid July into Early August for about 5 hours a day. So 40 days x 5 hours is about 200 hours. If compared to the 8760 hours in a year -- that is about 2% of the time.

The amount of the Peak is about 750E9 Watt-hours per hour (the hours cancel out), so that is 750E9 Watts. Everyone's expectation is that US should be able to hit and cover the Peak, with a little spare as reserve, and generally US does this fine. The Peak is driven by the Heat of the Sun -- for Air Conditioning -- with both some seasonal lag (otherwise the First Day of Summer would be Peak), and some daily lag (otherwise solar Noon would be the daily Peak).

Hitting the Peak is the Big Trick of the year for the US Grid overall. Generally US turns on ALL the Nukes, ALL the Coal, and the available Gas, Big Wind, Hydro -- and now for the last few years all the quickly climbing Solar PV. Solar PV has now reached about 250E9 Watts, so if well aligned -- Solar PV alone can now carry about 1/3 of the Peak. Solar PV has been adding around 50E9 Watts per year, so at that rate, Solar PV could be carrying most of the entire Peak (another 500E9 Watts) within 10 years.

In prior Decades, US has built surplus (most of the time) Coal and Nukes to try to hit that Peak -- so they are still surplus most of the time, and Gas "Peakers" have been built to come on and specifically target the Peak(s). Below is an attached graph of the US Peak.

Let me know you made it this far, and we can do the other end of things -- Spring, Fall, and Deep Night Surplus.

Only thing I question, is obviously those that sounds right, and I dont argue July being highest, but I "think" you have random spikes higher, much less predictable, for short periods during Jan.

I dont think ive ever heard of customers being asked to moderate use in July; but a few weeks ago, they did request customers to moderate heat.

Edit: I am surprised to find that only 41% of US homes use electric heat (in multiple forms) as primary heat, and that 47% use gas (propane or natural gas). Natural gas just isnt that available to the home in my part of the world, and (not me) many people dont want it, and actually consider it a negative. Me, if gas distribution came through, I would 100% hook up. Not heat, but stove and biggest would be water heater. Heat pump is fine, it might struggle 5 days per year, but space heaters bridge that gap.

During that bad cold span when it got down to 17, we did keep a fire going in fire place, and it made a real difference.

 

[Michiganguy]

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

Why should I as a land owner pay for repairs for all the folks whose power comes from a line that was installed in the 1930’s, and run through the swamp on our property? The power company chose to run it through a wooded swamp. The folks that benefit are all farther down the line beyond the swamp and our property, yet you think I should pay for them, ok.

 

[Hay Dude]

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

So power company confiscates landowners land, installs power lines and you expect the property owner to maintain the power company’s power lines for falling trees? Are you serious?

Are they expected to maintain the 100’+ tall power lines, too? For what could be miles of their land?

Does the property owner have to buy a 6x6 bucket truck with ability to reach 100’ or hire someone who has one, with a crew?

In my area, the power company hires out companies like Asplund to clear tall trees & large vegetation or farmers like me, who are given permission to farm crops underneath.

 

[Eagle1]

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

Why should I give the power co rights to my property if it does not benefit me? Who is responsible for the power line right of way upkeep? What were the terms of permitting the ROW in the deed?
At least our CoOp has this policy, they cut or kill trees, etc to prevent problems.
Right of Way | Co-Mo Electric
I am limited in the use of my property. This ROW is about 1/4 mile + off the road and runs through the middle of my place through pasture, woods up over my pond dam and right past my house. They come through every couple of years to prune and spay herbicide. I do get to fill the ruts the contractor leaves when they can't see the mud and they kill some stuff I'd rather keep . At times they cut fence or break other stuff, like drive a multi ton machine over a raised manhole and collapsing it into the sewer (I did get some help to repair that one),
They drop trees per their policy but mostly prune the snot out of the line side so the tree will tip away onto whatever is the other way. Many trees are quite lob sided...

 

[dodge man]

Why should I pay for your tree wrecking the power lines?

Think about the ramifications of people having to keep the row clear of trees. Do you really want a bunch of idiots out there dropping trees near the power lines? They could hire it done but people would find the cheapest they could.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

1. $1 per Watt is now typical install for full install of cheap Solar PV. That is why it works out to about 2 to 3 cents per kWh "behind the meter." Which works out to about the equivalent of 15 cent per gallon gasoline when that cheap electricity is put into an EV. I have been doing this for about 7 years, now. We can do the math, if you like?

2. No battery required, nor really desired. It is called Grid-Tie? You must have heard of this? Solar Folks send the surplus up to the Grid during the day (high grid demand time), and then get electricity back at night (surplus grid time). Win-Win for all sides.

3. Connection to plug in an EV. About $60. Parts on the rack at Lowes or Home Depot. Picked some up this weekend for a friend.

Real Question? Why do you have such strong opinions about a topic you clearly know nothing about? That is not a gotcha, it is a Real Question. What is up with that?

4. Plenty of Labor in mining Quartz Rock, Silicon, and Aluminum. Along with Silicon Foundries and Assembly and Install sites. US could be doing all that.

5. China is not "hostile" to US. It is the mouth breathing morons of US "Leadership" who are pumping weapons, sending warships, and generating fear and hate. I work with Chinese folks daily. From both Mainland and Taiwan. They are baffled at US ignorance and arrogance. I have seen up close how Stupid US have become, so I just sort of shrug. I did get Chinese Lanterns and Finger Trap puzzles to play with for the kids for Chinese New Year next week. We do season decorations on the robots in the lab windows. They are teaching me some basic Chinese for fun. Our lab tech reads me the equipment spec sheets, now -- mostly Chinese.

6. To build here. Yes US should. US "Leadership" is just too ignorant and arrogant. I do not think you really grasp the level of retardation that has struck US?

7. Americans are happy to work in Solar. Had an install crew of former Oil guys a couple of years ago. They would laugh even on the hard days about how much nicer and cleaner Solar PV is than Oil. And in some years ago, we had lots of fun putting Solar PV on Oil Wells. (end of the line power in deep West Texas gets expensive).

You really sincerely do not understand which side of what lines you are on?

2. No battery required, nor really desired. It is called Grid-Tie? You must have heard of this? Solar Folks send the surplus up to the Grid during the day (high grid demand time), and then get electricity back at night (surplus grid time). Win-Win for all sides.

In the East, it's called net metering. We had it and it worked great. fast forward to today, some electric companies are shutting that option down. I'm guessing here, but their profits are higher if they shut it down. It wouldn't have made sence for us to go solar when we did if net metering wasn't a factor.

 

[paulsharvey]

First of all, Easement, nearly always NOT Right of Way, there is a difference. Right of Way is owned by, well, it's owner, the county, the gas company, the power company, ect. Easement is right to Use, but not ownership.

In as close to 100% as possible of cases, the power easement, power company is responsible for maintenance, as they require. So, keeping trees back as required for aerial clearance, mowing for access, but not mowing for the sake of mowing or mowing for looks, thats not them.

Easements are a contract, Which requires a transfer of money or other things of value. So, they may have paid at one point to purchase rights, or it could be (often is) a requirement to provide service. Them providing service to you had value.

Then we have public ROW use permits. Generally, and I mean generally, utilities do not pay a lease or annual or anything fee for utilities in public ROW, because it is a benefit to the people of the state (local laws vary, so maybe a couple states require a "franchise fee" for use of the ROW).

No utilities, no homes, and no anything. Wr can scream about them forcing Easements or sales, but you can't have a home without power, can't have a business or anything without power.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think we all recognize the needs for electric power grids, power lines, etc.
However, to force the property owner to provide right of way or easement clearing for the power company’s power transmission equipment, as Larry Cladwell suggests, is crazy.

 

[Eagle1]

First of all, Easement, nearly always NOT Right of Way, there is a difference. Right of Way is owned by, well, it's owner, the county, the gas company, the power company, ect. Easement is right to Use, but not ownership.

In as close to 100% as possible of cases, the power easement, power company is responsible for maintenance, as they require. So, keeping trees back as required for aerial clearance, mowing for access, but not mowing for the sake of mowing or mowing for looks, thats not them.

Easements are a contract, Which requires a transfer of money or other things of value. So, they may have paid at one point to purchase rights, or it could be (often is) a requirement to provide service. Them providing service to you had value.

Then we have public ROW use permits. Generally, and I mean generally, utilities do not pay a lease or annual or anything fee for utilities in public ROW, because it is a benefit to the people of the state (local laws vary, so maybe a couple states require a "franchise fee" for use of the ROW).

No utilities, no homes, and no anything. Wr can scream about them forcing Easements or sales, but you can't have a home without power, can't have a business or anything without power.

I stand corrected on the term....not upset about easements. I have willing granted them for others. I would be upset if the power co wanted to bill me for damages not caused by me..... I drop a tree on a line with a saw my fault, wind or ice drops it NOT my fault.
However there are homes with no public utilities, and always have been.
Even in FL
If you have lot of cash you can own this....
For sale: Off-the-grid island home tucked inside a Florida state park

Providing you own power is an option and you can turn it off any time who would know?

 

[paulsharvey]

So, maybe I missed something, but are we calling something like a general "line clearing fee" or something billing the land owner for trees, or are there actual companies sending bills to a land owner for the removal of trees within their specific easement?

 

[paulsharvey]

So, at my place, we have three power easements, although one is strictly to our service pole, but the two others feed me, as well as other homes. They do clear the trees in the easement, but, one thing that is probably false economy, there are multiple dead, long leaf pines, just outside of that easement, standing. Easily within the range that if they fall in about a 120 degree arc, they will down the lines. I am not cutting them, as they are pretty unpredictable; the top may come down straight on you, even if 75% of the trunk falls were you aimed. I have zero desire to keep dead standing pines at all; but im also not doing the work. So, basically, 33% chance they fall on the lines, power company has a repair more expensive then the tree removal, plus I (and about a dozen othe properties) loose power for atleast a few hours.

 

[Eagle1]

So, maybe I missed something, but are we calling something like a general "line clearing fee" or something billing the land owner for trees, or are there actual companies sending bills to a land owner for the removal of trees within their specific easement?

Larry wants the owner of tree that falls onto the line to pay for damages and repair. I for one would not want that liability.
I his mind you should be liable for those pine trees if they hit the power line.
I my world I call the CoOp and they will either take the tree(s) or accept the risk.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Our small, local power company has a ROW, even list them as such on website. They have access to 25' for maintaining. 25' isn't much and are very mindful of property owners. They will go outside of that 25' in order to not damage property when accessing, and I applaud that. Now this past year, they hired out to mulch down all scrub trees sprouting. This MFer didn't give a crap of damage done, in or out of 25' range. This was the first time in our 5 years here, so I repaired damage and moved on.
I have talked in person to the electric company foreman about cutting down potential trees that would fall on lines, and he told me while it makes sense, he wasn't allowed to do.