Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[MossRoad]

Can add some finer details to that. This was not Texas first time in this rodeo. Prior -- in Feb 2011, we had a mini-test run. Deep Freeze, etc. Super Bowl in town, no less. Our existing Coal plants froze, and things were not yet so dependent on Gas. Major plants failed, and they had to re-route power (from the poors) to the Super Bowl site.

The take away was that those OLDER Coal Plants -- we went back and "Winterized" (better insulation on valves, more heat strip on piping -- on and on). Those ones stayed on during Winter Storm URI -- Feb 2021. However, they were older and dirty and some were already taken off-line awaiting their fate by 2021. (Videos below). The new(er) plants and the new(er) Frack Gas sites -- had not been through the Feb 2011 Deep Freeze. So they tended to Freeze. Not a big Coal fan -- but "only" about 30% froze-Failed. 70% made it through.

Meanwhile, typical review numbers was Gas was around 40% Fail, and Nukes were 25% Fail.

Here is the funny part, will probably get some howls on here . . .
Meanwhile Solar PV jumped UP. PV produces more when Cold, and Reflected Light from Snow increased production). So now Texas has built a LOT more Solar PV and is now leading the US in Solar PV.

Back in 2021, Governor Abbott and his Frack Gas buddies looked at the numbers, and that is when the Lies started. Wind was not even slated for much to fail from. Winter and Summer are our "slow" Wind times. We plan Big Wind for Spring, Fall, and more at night than day.

These are a couple of "my" older plants. We actually had them fixed up with Deep Freeze and (layers and layers of) EPA Air Compliance.

Big Brown Demolition (wait for the cattle moooo)

Monticello

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Grid Attachment for Texas is partly a factor of distance. Not just the political. We can run High Voltage AC only so far. Will do some details on HVDC -- on another comment I think you have . . .

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beautiful smoke rings!

 

[Hay Dude]

I agree that we should manufacture panels domestically. But the economics must not be there to be competitive for US manufacturers.

Well then that’s a BIG problem because now you are creating a dangerous dependency on foreign materials that are life & death critical to this country.

Do you want to sponsor that sort of irresponsibility? You and your buddy Phil sure talk that way. I don’t.
Majority American made, or screw it. It’s too important. China’s too unpredictable, hostile & dangerous to depend on for something this critical.

Natural gas will continue to be a major component of the power generation mix because it’s cheaper than coal. It’s why coal is dying fast. Not only is it environmentally damaging; it’s not economical anymore. The subsidies announced today are the only way that coal continues. Taxpayer money.

I bet taxpayer support for green energy is much more.

 

[MossRoad]

But………
You have been planning to bring home your Toyota to work on it for how many years???

Ohhhhhh.... about 40.

 

[jyoutz]

Well then that’s a BIG problem because now you are creating a dangerous dependency on foreign materials that are life & death critical to this country.

Do you want to sponsor that sort of irresponsibility? You and your buddy Phil sure talk that way. I don’t.
Majority American made, or screw it. It’s too important. China’s too unpredictable, hostile & dangerous to depend on for something this critical.


I bet taxpayer support for green energy is much more.

Capitalism will determine where products are manufactured. Unless you want the government to order U.S. production. That is being attempted with tariffs but not working. Coal has received over a century of taxpayer subsidies; far more than green energy. And a lot of new solar projects are now under construction without subsidies. It’s becoming very economical without subsidies.

 

[Hay Dude]

Capitalism will determine where products are manufactured. Unless you want the government to order U.S. production. That is being attempted with tariffs but not working.

So JYoutz, should we also build our military equipment in China? Where’s it end for you? Everything made in China? Bless your heart…..

Coal has received over a century of taxpayer subsidies; far more than green energy.

Man you are quite a laugh riot. Ever realize coal has been around a lot longer, so the sum total it has received is going to be a lot more than solar?
How about right now? What was the amount of the green new deal?

The Green New Deal Would Cost Trillions and Make Not a Dime’s Worth of Difference

Remember those office supply ads with the “that was easy” button? The premise was, just hit the magical red button and all of your supply needs are taken care of: It’s just that easy! The Green New Deal, which earlier this week garnered exactly zero votes of support, was an “easy” button for...

www.heritage.org

And a lot of new solar projects are now under construction without subsidies. It’s becoming very economical without subsidies.

Why wouldn’t they take them if they were offered?
Are they reducing your electric bill???? Nope.

 

[gsganzer]

There's a $1Billion photovoltaic panel and cell manufacturing facility being constructed in/near Tulsa, OK

 

[jyoutz]

So JYoutz, should we also build our military equipment in China? Where’s it end for you? Everything made in China? Bless your heart…..


Man you are quite a laugh riot. Ever realize coal has been around a lot longer, so the sum total it has received is going to be a lot more than solar?
How about right now? What was the amount of the green new deal?

The Green New Deal Would Cost Trillions and Make Not a Dime’s Worth of Difference

Remember those office supply ads with the “that was easy” button? The premise was, just hit the magical red button and all of your supply needs are taken care of: It’s just that easy! The Green New Deal, which earlier this week garnered exactly zero votes of support, was an “easy” button for...

www.heritage.org

Why wouldn’t they take them if they were offered?
Are they reducing your electric bill???? Nope.

It’s time for you to leave the 1900s behind and see that things are different. Products will be manufactured according to the free market economy. It’s a long established and conservative principle of our country. Government control of manufacturing: look up the definition of that form of economic system (it starts with a C). My point is that renewables are starting to be competitive in the free market without subsidies. Coal is only economically viable going forward with the type of subsidies announced today. These are simple facts. And when the newly announced federal lands coal leases are again re-offered, most will again go no-bid despite the generous leasing terms. A free market private business comment on the future of coal.

 

[Hay Dude]

It’s time for you to leave the 1900s behind and see that things are different. Products will be manufactured according to the free market economy. It’s a long established and conservative principle of our country. Government control of manufacturing: look up the definition of that form of economic system (it starts with a C). My point is that renewables are starting to be competitive in the free market without subsidies. Coal is only economically viable going forward with the type of subsidies announced today. These are simple facts. And when the newly announced federal lands coal leases are again re-offered, most will again go no-bid despite the generous leasing terms. A free market private business comment on the future of coal.

Dude, lay off the “coal” for a minute.
I’m not a proponent of coal. Stop with the gaslighting already.. sheesh!
I want a balanced system of power generation, reliant on neither all coal or 100% solar panels.

But keep it real, and don’t shove bullschitt at us that green energy isn’t subsidized, either.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I feel like I’m missing something on battery storage for solar farms. The pictures I see show huge numbers of containers with batteries. That makes sense an efficient way to bring them in. My problem is there are concerns for the rare earth elements for batteries, disposal and/or recycling of them at end of life. It seems like just one of these battery storage setups for a solar farm would be enough to build thousands of electric cars.

Different design criteria. EV batteries have weight, energy density, and size restrictions that do not exist for stationary battery installations. If a power plant battery only provides half as much energy per ton, nobody cares.

 

[WM75Guy]

Are high capital investing by utilities serving the interests of customers across the state? No, it clearly isn't. Why do you think so many Californians have invested in solar and batteries at the household level? Econ 101. Now, one might make the argument that the utility lobbyists have the PUC in their pockets due to the actions of elected governors, but that is different from power generation and distribution

Or is it because since January 1, 2020 California required new construction to have a solar PV systems and now in some cases a battery energy storage system?

Solar PV, Solar Ready, Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) & BESS-Ready

 

[gsganzer]

Different design criteria. EV batteries have weight, energy density, and size restrictions that do not exist for stationary battery installations. If a power plant battery only provides half as much energy per ton, nobody cares.

That's a good point Larry. One of the batteries they're testing for storage applications is Vanadium Redox and Vanadium Ion. Lots of benefits, including safety and number of cycles. It seems the downsides are mainly size, weight and initial upfront costs, not necessarily problems for utilities.

 

[ponytug]

Or is it because since January 1, 2020 California required new construction to have a solar PV systems and now in some cases a battery energy storage system?

Solar PV, Solar Ready, Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) & BESS-Ready

View attachment 5016702

The fine print on that was it was primarily for larger subdivisions, and not much of the roof top (250sqft, or about 5kW). So, yes, some solar, but not enough for those houses to be anywhere close to meeting their energy needs.

My comment was intended to be along the lines of how sausage is made, and that of course the utilities have a huge interest in having a PUC interested in their well being. Nothing nefarious, just self interest, though a self interest that causes monetary losses to the average ratepayer.

All the best, Peter

 

[lilranch2001]

Ohhhhhh.... about 40.

Have you ever extrapolated your storage fees over the years?

Asking for a friend……

 

[gsganzer]

I'd consider solar at my new place and might look into it at some point. But I don't think I'd give up the LP gas stove, dryer and gas fireplaces. I like the diversity. The ventless gas fireplace has been my biggest surprise. I'm conventional and like burning wood, but I have to admit, the gas fireplace is super convenient and throws out a ton of heat with the simple click of a button and in really short order.

 

[paulsharvey]

Ok, so, on a small scale, who would Consider adding solar, grid tied still, to their home when redoing the roof if the numbers pencil. I dont mean a political statement or virtue signaling.

You show me 50% savings on power, and an affordable system; at say $12,000, that doesnt cause insurance problems; I would Consider it. That would have a 60 month break even point, and be saving you money for the next 60 months. Tax breaks/credits would be a bonus, but its not the biggest factor.

Im not talking sized to sell power back, just reducing your grid draw. Im definitely not talking off grid, just normal people, normal house.

Right now, they just are at the point that the System pays for itself at 50% life span, for most people, without tax credits. It might reach that point eventually.

 

[John0829]

I would in heart beat, we installed panels 3 years ago and I really wish we could have put in more than we did but our co-op limits the number you can install. They take the average of previous years and then allow you to install panels to produce approximately 40% of that average. I felt at the time it was BS but it is what it is, but our panels have cut the bill on average by about 1/3 which I do not think is bad when you take in consideration the overcast and rainy days that cut production.

Our panels are out in the horse pasture... no more horses so made sense to put the panel array out there. Just that much, small though it maybe, that I do not have to mow.

 

[jyoutz]

I'd consider solar at my new place and might look into it at some point. But I don't think I'd give up the LP gas stove, dryer and gas fireplaces. I like the diversity. The ventless gas fireplace has been my biggest surprise. I'm conventional and like burning wood, but I have to admit, the gas fireplace is super convenient and throws out a ton of heat with the simple click of a button and in really short order.

I agree. I burned wood for 30+ years, but when I converted from propane to natural gas, the wood stove was replaced by a gas stove. It heats well and is super convenient. My girlfriend kids me and calls it a lazy man’s stove. Guilty. I don’t miss cutting and splitting 4 cords every year.

 

[rontaki]

I would in heart beat, we installed panels 3 years ago and I really wish we could have put in more than we did but our co-op limits the number you can install. They take the average of previous years and then allow you to install panels to produce approximately 40% of that average. I felt at the time it was BS but it is what it is, but our panels have cut the bill on average by about 1/3 which I do not think is bad when you take in consideration the overcast and rainy days that cut production.

Our panels are out in the horse pasture... no more horses so made sense to put the panel array out there. Just that much, small though it maybe, that I do not have to mow.

And if another panel "installs itself" every now and then, the co-op may not notice. Co-op minus the hyphen and an "o" = cop. . .

 

[rontaki]

I agree. I burned wood for 30+ years, but when I converted from propane to natural gas, the wood stove was replaced by a gas stove. It heats well and is super convenient. My girlfriend kids me and calls it a lazy man’s stove. Guilty. I don’t miss cutting and splitting 4 cords every year.


View attachment 5016935View attachment 5016936

How many lazy men can you fit in it at one time? Enough for overnight?

 

[jyoutz]

How many lazy men can you fit in it at one time? Enough for overnight?

I guess I’m the only lazy man around here.