Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[jyoutz]

I believe solar in those countries are far cheaper than here in the states. Is that true. I see it mentioned a lot on linkdyn.

Solar has also become far cheaper in the U.S. during the past 5 years.

 

[jyoutz]

For better or worse, the haze from coal burning reflects some of the slight that would have reached the ground, so provides some cooling effect.

That haze is also carrying mercury, arsenic, and other noxious toxins into the air, soil, and water.

 

[MossRoad]

...all states that are turning their backs on energy diversity and are pushing 100% electric. ....

Well, we can generate electricity with gas, oil, coal, water, sun, wind, nuclear, etc... Electricity is the most versatile, especially in urban areas.

 

[MossRoad]

My concern with data centers is that in many cases, they're multi-billion-dollar structures and they've negotiated lucrative tax agreements in their municipalities. Don't think for a minute that once the municipalities start sucking on that teat, that the municipality won't bend to every whim as the data center owners start moving the cheese with additional negotiations in the coming years.

I think that's the case with many of these projects, wind, solar, data, NG etc. Public entities (governments, agencies, colleges, etc) don't know how to be austere and frugal. They only know how to spend every last dime of the money they get and still ask for more. You threaten to cut their revenue and they'll cave-in like a ***** looking at a $100 bill.

Since our governor cut property taxes, that lost revenue is not going to go to the counties. The counties have a choice to raise local taxes, or invite companies that are willing to pay heavy taxes to make up the difference. That's what's going on here, in our county.

 

[gsganzer]

Well, we can generate electricity with gas, oil, coal, water, sun, wind, nuclear, etc... Electricity is the most versatile, especially in urban areas.

Electricity is also the most easily hacked by an enemy state. They recently found solar infrastructure components used in the USA and Europe, manufactured in China, with back doors.

They can't hack a wood stove, 5-gallon gas can or propane tank.

 

[gsganzer]

Since our governor cut property taxes, that lost revenue is not going to go to the counties. The counties have a choice to raise local taxes, or invite companies that are willing to pay heavy taxes to make up the difference. That's what's going on here, in our county.

I agree Moss. The one thing the county (insert: State, fed government, township etc.) won't consider, is how to spend the money they get more wisely or cut programs.

 

[1Mech]

That's one of the things about these data centers being built west of us. Thousands of jobs during construction, push to get young people into the trades, etc.. hotels and campgrounds booked up for a couple years..... then it's over. Where are the thousands of tradespeople unemployed. So their unions push for more construction, no matter the project. If more construction doesn't come, those newly minted tradespeople have to move to find other jobs. Huge growth is temporary jobs.

Talking to several people I know in the trades and they say it'll be about a 10 year cycle. Boom then bust for them. The one's in their later years will make major dollars and retire. The younger ones will make major dollars then have to figure out what to do next. They expect a large chunk of the younger folks will leave the trades after the boom cycle.

I think the push to get young people into the trades, rather than college is a great idea! Yes, the big jobs only last until the construction is complete, but, they now have a valuable skill that can and does provide a lifetime of employment / income and many will go on to be independent contractors, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc. providing valuable and needed services to their communities!
My grandkids have all gone to college, who knows if they will be able to find meaningful employment upon graduation, not to mention the indoctrination they are likely to receive. I tried to convince them that trade school would be better, but didn't succeed.

 

[MossRoad]

Electricity is also the most easily hacked by an enemy state. They recently found solar infrastructure components used in the USA and Europe, manufactured in China, with back doors.

They can't hack a wood stove, 5-gallon gas can or propane tank.

You can't have 100,000 people in a medium sized town all burn wood, let alone the large cities mentioned.

 

[MossRoad]

I agree Moss. The one thing the county (insert: State, fed government, township etc.) won't consider, is how to spend the money they get more wisely or cut programs.

Our county is cut pretty thin. And singled out because it's one of two counties in the state that aren't the same party as the governor. Yet we have the largest investments in state history going on in our county.

 

[MossRoad]

I think the push to get young people into the trades, rather than college is a great idea! Yes, the big jobs only last until the construction is complete, but, they now have a valuable skill that can and does provide a lifetime of employment / income and many will go on to be independent contractors, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc. providing valuable and needed services to their communities!
My grandkids have all gone to college, who knows if they will be able to find meaningful employment upon graduation, not to mention the indoctrination they are likely to receive. I tried to convince them that trade school would be better, but didn't succeed.

I agree that traditional college isn't the right fit for everyone. I have two associate degrees in electronics. One in TV/Radio (transmitters, receivers, etc...), the other in industrial electronics (motors, controllers, etc...). They served me well. All of my siblings have BS, masters, etc... and all did pretty well. Both of our kids have BS, one has masters, both are in post graduate education. Both doing very well.

I know a lot of young folks that are doing very well in the trades. However, once these big jobs are done, they're done. I don't see projects of this size ever happening again in this area. So, they're going to have to move. Then, they'll be the hated "out of town" contractors. I'll be 80 when these projects wrap up. We'll see how it goes.

Key details regarding employment for this project include:

• Total Construction Force: As of April 2025, there are an estimated 3,000 workerson-site for the combined projects in the area, including the AWS data center.
• Roles: The project requires significant electrical infrastructure, with job postings actively seeking data center electricians, technicians, and managers for the New Carlisle and South Bend areas.
• Duration: Construction began in 2024 and is expected to continue with additional buildings over the next 10–15 years, ensuring sustained employment for trade workers.

The project is considered the largest private-sector investment in Indiana's history.

 

[1Mech]

We have new ones going up every week around me; last year, the power grid of Spain / Portugal went down due to overvoltage as too many small producers pumped juice in at the same time.
Apparently, this is the first time this has ever happened anywhere. Anyway, the engineers will fix it. We need a better link with France so we can feed excess power north.

The panels are crazy cheap now; the structure to hold them up costs as much as the panels now I think. They don't even bother to make them rotate, it's cheaper to just add more panels.

Inverter and battery prices (for home use) are dropping fast too.

I just bought an additional 16Kw battery for my solar system, $4500, not what I would call crazy cheap. Maybe in Portugal they are less expensive or subsidized.

 

[1Mech]

Again... we have multiple 640 acre ish solar farms around. When construction is ongoing, its a major earth moving project, but they use silt fence, water trucks, ect, BMPs to control sediment. There is some, but its less than a disc'd 640 acres. Once built, it very un-intrustive. They will nearly aways have a chain link fence, generally with privacy bush plantings to screen the view.

Im not anti farm, at all, but a solar farm, once built, has Way less traffic, equipment, dust, noise, ect than a working farm.

With that said, yeah, maybe you dont want to be looking right at it on the back porch, but its a passive thing. Maintenance is mowing, selective spot spraying, and annual pressure washing, thats it. It just sits there.

You could very easily be 200-500 ft away from one, and never know it was there.

Regarding the view, we just returned from visiting my wife's daughter in San Antonio, the view out of their windows in their large, expensive house on a tiny lot is just wonderful, if you like looking at the neighbors roof!! I couldn't live like that!

 

[MossRoad]

Regarding the view, we just returned from visiting my wife's daughter in San Antonio, the view out of their windows in their large, expensive house on a tiny lot is just wonderful, if you like looking at the neighbors roof!! I couldn't live like that!

We rented a cabin in the smokies one year. Pictures were deceiving. Our view from the porch was of all the roofs on the cabins below us.

 

[mark in portugal]

I just bought an additional 16Kw battery for my solar system, $4500, not what I would call crazy cheap. Maybe in Portugal they are less expensive or subsidized.

I wrote that the panels are now crazy cheap; batteries are still expensive, but prices are dropping year by year.
$4,500 for 16kw isn't bad.
I'll probably hold off on battery purchase for at least another year. I have a lot of work to do before the system will be ready for them anyway.

 

[edgarrian]

Solar has also become far cheaper in the U.S. during the past 5 years.

But what i seeing is that the payoff here is 7-10 years. might even be a bit longer now. Where in other countries its 2-3. Thats a substantial difference. Which means solar in the US is expensive I priced it for my house about 8 years ago. Did it again a few years ago. IT was more expensive. So im not sure how people say its getting cheaper when the quotes do not reflect that

 

[edgarrian]

Well, we can generate electricity with gas, oil, coal, water, sun, wind, nuclear, etc... Electricity is the most versatile, especially in urban areas.

Energy is indeed versatile but once you politicize energy. You have made it more expensive. Which is exactly what's happened here in the states. China is used often as an example of how great they are deploying solar and wind. What most people dont realize is that china has over 1100 coal plants and they consume more coal than the globe. Oh and energy is far cheaper there. Stange how that is

 

[edgarrian]

I think the push to get young people into the trades, rather than college is a great idea! Yes, the big jobs only last until the construction is complete, but, they now have a valuable skill that can and does provide a lifetime of employment / income and many will go on to be independent contractors, mechanics, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc. providing valuable and needed services to their communities!
My grandkids have all gone to college, who knows if they will be able to find meaningful employment upon graduation, not to mention the indoctrination they are likely to receive. I tried to convince them that trade school would be better, but didn't succeed.

This is an interesting conversation about trade schools and colleges. Where it seems like everyone agrees. College is to expensive and trades is a great option that should be consider more often. Open conversation this seems to be the case. However actions dont reflect that.

Speaking of indoctrination Indiana University is one of the best schools in indiana. They were recently polled to be top 5 worst colleges for free speech. Purdue can in top 5 for the most freedom of speech. My niece wanted to go to Columbia University in Chicago. I was not thrilled with her enthusiasm. Nonetheless I kept it to myself. IN the end she chose to stay in state for free. I bring up Columbia b/c that school is awful. Here is why

I read a book called While Time Remains by Yionmi Park. It chronicles her life story about defecting from North Korea and finally making her way to the states. She attended and graduated from Columbia University in New York. This script is from the student handbook and read out loud to every student

Whatever disagrees, or silent, is an enemy.
Whatever agrees is a friend.
No student shall speak of offenses.
No student shall touch another student.
No student shall make another student feel unsafe.
No student shall speak well of America.
Only white men are free.

Digest that one for awhile

 

[edgarrian]

Our county is cut pretty thin. And singled out because it's one of two counties in the state that aren't the same party as the governor. Yet we have the largest investments in state history going on in our county.

Your south bend. Im south of you about 1.5 hrs. Im about half hour south of lafayette. I believe you guys have a data center getting approved or pushed back?

 

[paulsharvey]

So, let me ask, how is solar farms really that different than growing corn for ethanol? They both use ground space, and the suns energy to create usable energy. They both are arguably only around due to subsidies. If corn doesnt pass you off, solar shouldn't either.

Now, to try to be balanced; wild life, solar fields arent barren wasteland, But they dont support that much wild life. If they choose to use a native wild flower mixed with low grasses, and or perrinial peanut ground cover, and bees, ect; you would likely get both more $$$ value and more ecological value.

Edit: What im saying, yeah, you'll see some rabbits, deer, ect; but likely less, significantly less than around pasture or row crop land.