No breed contract on dog?

[paulsharvey]

My wife is in talks with a breeder to buy a pure bred German Shepard female, and we have a pure breed, papers, German Shepard male. Wife isnt trying to start a puppy mill, but she wants to breed them at some point, maybe just a single litter, maybe 2 or 3. The dealer wants her to sign a contract that says the female must be spayed or neutered within 1 year of purchase, or the dog must be returned, with no refund of payment...

Im not into the world of name brand dogs, and I told the wife, that sounds like a rental, not a purchase. If you buy it, its yours, to do with as you want (within laws). Anyone heard of something similar?

Ive seen ads from folks that want to do an in home inspection prior to sale, or "proof of experience" with large breeds. I think, these folks are insane, this isnt a foster child, its a sale. Once cash changes hands, this transaction is complete.

These arent cheap dogs either, and if your dropping $2500, signing an actual contract to not breed, sounds crazy.

I do understand the breeder doesnt want competition, from a strictly business side, but...

 

[scootr]

Sounds crazy. Find another breeder.

 

[General Lee]

I've seen it several times. Usually it's because the breeder wants to protect their bloodline. The breeder where I got my recent golden retriever withheld the AKC papers until proof of spay.

 

[Jstpssng]

Some breeders sell either with or without breeding rights, charging accordingly. I believe that you pay almost double for those rights.

When I was looking for a lab puppy it was unbelievable what breeders demand. Some charge you to get onto a waiting list, for a litter which won't be born for a year.
One had you get on a list to get on a waiting list; another said that she had to be added to my FB page.
I'm not on FB.
One breeder expects you to sign a contract that you will keep health insurance on the puppy for it's entire life.
I filled out a 5 page questionaire with another and the ***** never even acknowledged me. Some of the questions were none of her business anyways. One asked "What makes you think that you are ready for a puppy?" My answer;
"I'm not looking for a dog. I'm researching breeders."

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Quite a lot seem to do it, they have the idea it is there dog, blood line ... While they have input on the parents choosen, it's not like there biological child! Once it's mine, it's mine, no recall!

I won't do home inspections either!

There attitude is what encouraged "backyard breeders" and puppy mills ... I'd rather get a mongral from in front of a farm store in a cardboard box, then buy a dog from someone like them!!!

I could care less for "papers" ... And even if it came with them, I'd not bother sending them in to register ...

 

[Snobdds]

My breeder for my mini Australian shepard did this. I found it weird and asked her why. Something about protecting her show dogs from other breeders.

I always neuter my dogs so it was no big concern. He has show dog DNA, but now he has run of the ranch and helps me check fence.

 

[paulsharvey]

I kinda told the wife, just say yes, if you want, and if they ask for something, say the dog got ran over. Not really proof...

She said she thinks that maybe were she got the male, like 4 years ago, had her sign an agreement, but they never followed up, but she's not positive.

 

[paulsharvey]

Maybe im missing something from people really into breeds; but why would a castrated dog need paperwork? I thought the only reason anyone would bother with "registered" would be for breeding? You dont worry about bloodlines in a steer...

 

[Jstpssng]

Maybe im missing something from people really into breeds; but why would a castrated dog need paperwork? I thought the only reason anyone would bother with "registered" would be for breeding? You dont worry about bloodlines in a steer...

I registered mine because it came with a free month of health insurance, of the same value.
When the AKC certificate came he promptly chewed it up!

They also send me weekly training tips based on his age, which are remarkably accurate.

I never thought I'd buy health insurance for a dog, but considering how often my last dog injured himself I am opting for it... as soon as I can come up with the 12 month premium to avoid automatic payments.

 

[Quaffer]

Some breeders sell either with or without breeding rights, charging accordingly. I believe that you pay almost double for those rights.

I experienced this with our most recent dog.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I am not going to get into the breeder's rights topic. I do want to point out that this country has a huge issue with unwanted dogs (and cats).

IMHO, unless you are a licensed breeder, it should be mandatory to spay and nueter. License fees should go towards spay and nueter clinics.

 

[JeepHead]

I have seen this several times and usually they will give you the option to purchase with breeding rights. I bought two labs over the past couple years and ran into the same thing with them.

 

[Highlandr]

Usually it's because the breeder wants to protect their bloodline.

Agree. In our case the dog wasn't show quality. I certainly couldn't tell.

 

[Rockbadchild]

they can't come and get the dog regardless of what you sign but yes it's common... don't get her spayed, and if she ask say you and the vet talk it over and you are not getting it spayed due to the heath risk... that's why I didn't get my GSD spayed and the vet agreed with me, for the record I didn't sign any papers saying I had to... we once look to get a ''registered'' dog and that's what it was once you get it spayed you send the proof and they send you the papers... if I choose to get a litter from my GSD I will just do a DNA test from her and the male to make sure they are not relative and that's it.

 

[CH4Ohio]

I kinda told the wife, just say yes, if you want, and if they ask for something, say the dog got ran over. Not really proof...

She said she thinks that maybe were she got the male, like 4 years ago, had her sign an agreement, but they never followed up, but she's not positive.

I thought the AKC or CKC papers indicate whether you have "breeding rights". In other words, you wouldn't be able to register any pups. Isn't that the case?

This is completely common. If you're buying a dog to breed, most "breeders" charge much more.

At least they aren't forcing an early spay/neuter with the pup like most all rescue groups do. It's not good for the pup but they still insist simply due to their focus on population control -- because they don't trust the new owners to follow-through. Often causes health issues -- especially for the females.

I've bought dogs both ways. If you're looking for different terms, look at a different dog. If you sign the agreement, you should keep your word and likely will have problems with registration later if you don't.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I've been told YMMV

- those clauses are enforceable as dogs are considered property. So its like a non compete clause when I sold a business that I wouldn't get into similar and compete. If done right its enforceable. Could sue in civil court
- also understand CKC/AKC will not register your puppies if one of your dogs has a do not breed clause on it. Supporting their registered breeders is what they due. Gotta keep that gravy train flowing.
- also wouldn't it just be fair. If a promise is made shouldn't a promise not to breed be kept?

I don't agree but understand it sorta is what it is.

side note: a guy down the road during covid got into puppy breeding. We are in the middle of farm country. He ending up making so much $ he quit his job as a hog barn manager. Was packaging up and selling puppies to folks in cities for big $. I don't get it personally as I get mine from rescues for $400. People around me think I am crazy as farm dogs given away for free constantly but thats where to each his own comes into play I guess.

 

[Rockbadchild]

once money there is a transfer of money the property got sold and you are now the owner... maybe they could come after you in civil court but the the court would (I would think) at most require you to spay the dog to honor the contract, the judge would never ask you to give the dog back... plus if you make your case about the heath risk of spaying I just can't see that happening plus I would think the breeder has better things to do.

 

[paulsharvey]

I think she messaged the lady, saying she would like to have one batch of puppies. Whole thing seems crazy as an outsider. I get that a German Shepard is a "premium brand", but its not an exotic breed. Whole thing seems like a John Deere repair, or Ferrari rules against modifying.

Humane society/shelters, 100% I understand.

Someone mentioned DNA testing, my sister got her daughter a DNA test kit for her dog, more as a fun/science/educational thing, then anything. Its a 100% mutt, pure breed, going back many generations, but a good dog; rhodesian ridgeback, black mouth curr, Dalmatian, and like 14 other things.

Was talking to a lady at work today, and kinda pointed out, its like buying a car, and saying you won't modify, repaint, or resell.

My opinion, if your not getting rights to breed, and possibly sell (or give away, or not even breed), why not go get a lab-pit-chatahula mix for $100. Bloodline means nothing in a mule...

 

[Carl_NH]

I understand this to maintain legacy bloodlines and protecting from breeding for profit purposes.

If all you intend to do is have 1 or 2 litters, I would say buy the female and have the 1-2 litters and say no more, don't advertise as having papers etc. etc.

Your other option is find a similar female, non registered, have a litter or two.

 

[CH4Ohio]

I think she messaged the lady, saying she would like to have one batch of puppies. Whole thing seems crazy as an outsider. I get that a German Shepard is a "premium brand", but its not an exotic breed. Whole thing seems like a John Deere repair, or Ferrari rules against modifying.

Humane society/shelters, 100% I understand.

Someone mentioned DNA testing, my sister got her daughter a DNA test kit for her dog, more as a fun/science/educational thing, then anything. Its a 100% mutt, pure breed, going back many generations, but a good dog; rhodesian ridgeback, black mouth curr, Dalmatian, and like 14 other things.

Was talking to a lady at work today, and kinda pointed out, its like buying a car, and saying you won't modify, repaint, or resell.

My opinion, if your not getting rights to breed, and possibly sell (or give away, or not even breed), why not go get a lab-pit-chatahula mix for $100. Bloodline means nothing in a mule...

I bought a GSD. German bloodlines. Not extremely angulated like the American dogs. Champions on both sides of the pedigree 3 generations back.

I bought it with NO breeding rights. (That means any pups can't be registered. You could always breed, but without registration, there's not much point.) I bought him because I wanted a super dog with that distinct breeding that would be my best friend for about 10 years.

Since you are talking specifically about German Shepherd Dogs, I hope you're considering the need to evaluate who you sell pups to. Just as your breeder is evaluating and limiting what you can do with your dogs, you need to look at your future buyers. There are a lot of slimy people that buy dogs just to cage them and breed litters and sell pups and generate cash -- and they'll sell to anyone that pays. With a teacup poodle, it's pathetic. With German Shepherds it can become dangerous. They are a high-demand breed.

We're on our second Airedale. Just love them. No plans to breed or sell pups. We also have a rescue mutt (and pretty much always do have one). I don't understand your point about "if you don't plan to breed, why not buy a lab-pit-chatahula mix for $100. . . . " If you want a German Shepherd, or a Corgi, or a Poodle, or a Border Collie -- FOR A PET -- you want it because you're looking for those specific characteristics and talents and temperament. Lots of people buy purebred dogs (or horses, goats, cows, pigs . . . ) with no intention of breeding.