Just can't get a good basic truck, like the old days!

[RB5]

Went to the Great State Fair of Texas on Friday. As I looked at the autos on display I kept thinking that every one of them is a luxury vehicle compared to the ones from the 70s and 80s. Some time in the 90s things started to change. The engines became more reliable and more efficient. Lots of things got way better. Then suddenly the automakers figured out how much they could make loading up everything with tech that not everyone wants or needs... but it's cool. I remember when backup cameras were not common. Then GPS and NAV systems. Some of us don't want or need all that fancy stuff, and there in lies the problem. Even the lower end Ford STX package is loaded up with things I don't want. This adds $10k to what used to be a basic truck 10 to 15 years ago. Add in inflation and my truck new now sits in the $50k range. The MSRP was $36k in 2013. That included a tow package and 4x4 with an elocker. I paid $10k less on a sale the dealer was having. I could see that truck costing $10k more than it did in 2013, but not $20k plus. I admit I have not speced out an xl usingtheir F150 build tool. When I did that on the Ranger not everything I wanted was available on the low end package. I had to upgrade to get the bigger engine, which put it close to F150 prices.

 

[3930dave]

It will take a Lot to convince me that the new RAM I6 Aluminum sleeveless "plasma transfer wire arc (PTWA)" coating on the cylinder bores is better longevity wise than the Iron AMC 6, that Chrysler used for decades in the Jeeps.

I just had the granddaughters Wrangler 4.0 apart due to a bad exhaust valve, and checking the bores at over 230K miles there was no cylinder ridge at all, all cylinders 155+ after recutting the seat and a new valve installed.

I would like to see rebuild cost comparison as well. If any debris ever scores a cylinder wall, they are going to make like a Chevy Vega aluminum 4 did back in the day. Some reports of overheating and of all the things you don't want on an aluminum block liner less engine are bad thermostats which apparently were installed on some engines. No arguments it is a powerhouse though.

No accident, that "cast-iron reliability" predates all of us..... most today can't be bothered to season them, but nobody ever wore-out a cast-iron frying pan.

High-Specific Output.... sells well @ dealer-demos; if it only makes it 10% past the warranty period, Meh.

Transmissions too..... don't know what Rolls and Bentley are using today, but I doubt they are GM units, as one or both of those OEMs used long ago.

IIRC, those new RAM pu's with the 6, are rated lower Towing capacity, than what many modern 1/2 tons got to in recent years. If I'm right ^, reflecting more Go Fast Truck (with all that power) than Work Truck focus. Marketing-wise ^, not a bad play, given how many personal trucks are (close to) empty-load much of their lives.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Went to the Great State Fair of Texas on Friday. As I looked at the autos on display I kept thinking that every one of them is a luxury vehicle compared to the ones from the 70s and 80s. Some time in the 90s things started to change. The engines became more reliable and more efficient. Lots of things got way better. Then suddenly the automakers figured out how much they could make loading up everything with tech that not everyone wants or needs... but it's cool. I remember when backup cameras were not common. Then GPS and NAV systems. Some of us don't want or need all that fancy stuff, and there in lies the problem. Even the lower end Ford STX package is loaded up with things I don't want. This adds $10k to what used to be a basic truck 10 to 15 years ago. Add in inflation and my truck new now sits in the $50k range. The MSRP was $36k in 2013. That included a tow package and 4x4 with an elocker. I paid $10k less on a sale the dealer was having. I could see that truck costing $10k more than it did in 2013, but not $20k plus. I admit I have not speced out an xl usingtheir F150 build tool. When I did that on the Ranger not everything I wanted was available on the low end package. I had to upgrade to get the bigger engine, which put it close to F150 prices.

I raised the point in some of the EV threads on here, that they are being marketed pretty much like cell-phones.

The parallel is a little more blatant in the EV case, but, the points you raise ^ make a good case for saying modern vehicles are pretty much in the same situation. Most manufacturers warranties on electrical/electronics in vehicles are not long..... who is going to pay for advanced-diagnostics @ 8+ years out, or pay to have a soy-based chassis wiring harness replaced ?

I guess I need a Model A pu ?

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

This seems fitting for this tread I stumbled on despite not being a pickup truck. https://carbuzz.com/chevrolet-express-van-refuses-to-die/

Great point. I haven't crawled under one lately, but @ 10K# towing, I expect there is still a full-frame under there.

My HVAC contractor neighbour had a GM cube-van for a long time, put well over 600k km on it. Other than tires, brakes, tune-up items, and a coil-pack or 2, it basically needed nothing. He said he had 2nd thoughts, driving it to the Auction for the last time.... "even the AC still worked".

Rgds, D.

 

[jjeff]

Great point. I haven't crawled under one lately, but @ 10K# towing, I expect there is still a full-frame under there.

My HVAC contractor neighbour had a GM cube-van for a long time, put well over 600k km on it. Other than tires, brakes, tune-up items, and a coil-pack or 2, it basically needed nothing. He said he had 2nd thoughts, driving it to the Auction for the last time.... "even the AC still worked".

Rgds, D.

I'm sure there is a frame under there I really like the simplicity and durability of my 2018 Chevy 4500 Cutaway chassis to my surprise it doesn't use rectangular or square steel tubing
ust simple problaby less ridgid but beefy channel for frame rails. Since owning and dealing with rust perforation on boxed frame Tacomas for almost 20 yrs I was relieved to see open channel Frame rails on my 4500 instead. Wish I could praise what's on that frame behind the cab lol. similarly Chevy by still producing those vans and cutaways using older tried and true auto engineering and oldskool tech got that one right for sure.

 

[ultrarunner]

I raised the point in some of the EV threads on here, that they are being marketed pretty much like cell-phone

I guess I need a Model A pu ?

Rgds, D.

Get two… a pickup and 1.5 ton stake bed.

A friend owned a floor covering business and his logo had his 1931 AA Ford stake bed which he used for the business…

The Dodge Ram Maxivan could haul 1 roll of carpet.

The AA could haul many!

 

[sd455dan]

I raised the point in some of the EV threads on here, that they are being marketed pretty much like cell-phones.

The parallel is a little more blatant in the EV case, but, the points you raise ^ make a good case for saying modern vehicles are pretty much in the same situation. Most manufacturers warranties on electrical/electronics in vehicles are not long..... who is going to pay for advanced-diagnostics @ 8+ years out, or pay to have a soy-based chassis wiring harness replaced ?

I guess I need a Model A pu ?

Rgds, D.

Just my EV data point -just past 2 1/2 years on the Model Y and so far it has needed washer fluid . Nothing else.

Tesla also has just increased the longevity of parts of electric drivetrain coverage on some of the newest just released models. I have no plans to ever replace the 03 RAM with Cummins power and a manual transmission with a new truck. I really dislike what GM and Ford have done with the new automatic trans valve bodies.. nothing like locking up a driveline at 70 MPH for fun.

 

[Jstpssng]

I guess I need a Model A pu ?

You know that you want one, you've been threatening to for years!!!

 

[3930dave]

I'm sure there is a frame under there I really like the simplicity and durability of my 2018 Chevy 4500 Cutaway chassis to my surprise it doesn't use rectangular or square steel tubing
ust simple problaby less ridgid but beefy channel for frame rails. Since owning and dealing with rust perforation on boxed frame Tacomas for almost 20 yrs I was relieved to see open channel Frame rails on my 4500 instead. Wish I could praise what's on that frame behind the cab lol. similarly Chevy by still producing those vans and cutaways using older tried and true auto engineering and oldskool tech got that one right for sure.

Yep, closed channel in flood-the-roads-with-salt country often doesn't end well.

Open-channel can be plenty strong.... thinking of video I've seen of a triple-frame Autocar, but that's a bit heavier than most of us need....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Two… a pickup and 1.5 ton stake bed.

A friend owned a floor covering business and his logo had his 1931 AA Ford stake bed which he used for the business…

The Dodge Ram Maxivan could haul 1 roll of carpet.

The AA could haul many!

Progress ?



Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Just my EV data point -just past 2 1/2 years on the Model Y and so far it has needed washer fluid . Nothing else.

Tesla also has just increased the longevity of parts of electric drivetrain coverage on some of the newest just released models. I have no plans to ever replace the 03 RAM with Cummins power and a manual transmission with a new truck. I really dislike what GM and Ford have done with the new automatic trans valve bodies.. nothing like locking up a driveline at 70 MPH for fun.

Not hating-on T here..... just saying the mechanical aspects of even modern ICE platforms (seen an engine lately ?) has taken a back-seat to the Computer/Home Theatre-on-Wheels aspect of the marketing.....

Edit - with you on modern slushboxes..... I was hoping that if I won a lottery and decided to buy a new gas Superduty, I'd be OK, but a mechanic buddy of mine was telling me about problems on that 10spd (with stock engines).

2 Lottery Wins Later.... just Tremec what you want to buy New ? (To get a manual transmission).

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

You know that you want one, you've been threatening to for years!!!

I really can't hide on here... .at least from the long-time TBN'ers

Even with a resto-mod, I'd make sure to get a good-quality recording of the Clampett's truck, and loop it to external speakers...... if modern cars can make "Vroom" sounds through the audio-system to fool the driver, I wanna Take it To the Streets !

Rgds, D.

 

[deserteagle71]

I really can't hide on here... .at least from the long-time TBN'ers

Even with a resto-mod, I'd make sure to get a good-quality recording of the Clampett's truck, and loop it to external speakers...... if modern cars can make "Vroom" sounds through the audio-system to fool the driver, I wanna Take it To the Streets !

Rgds, D.

Found just the truck for you...at the McClouth Threshing Bee in McClouth, Kansas last week. Zoom in on that sticker on the side!

 

[not2old]

Around here it's hard to find one which doesn't have all of the junk I don't want. I call them pimpmobiles... can I say that here?

I'm not a pimp but I want a leather interior, power seats, power windows, power steering, power brakes,power door locks,power mirrors, air conditioning, automatic transmission and a little of the electronic
crap we're forced to accept today. I do like the cameras and heated seats. The rest of the crap is what I'm stuck with.

 

[paulsharvey]

If you can't find a fleet type optioned truck, set the search radius to 250 miles; if you are about anywhere in the mainland US, there will be dozens of near base trims available. Some fleets like 4wd, some hate it, some have V8s, some order the smallest engine possible; some like extended, others like crews; but if you want a near base, they Are available. Its not even a matter of ordering one; but dont expect a dealer to advertise their base stuff. They dont Hide them either, but they have them.

Edit: Yes, they will likely be white, maybe a few yellow, but we are talking cheap, base type teucks, and yeah, those are white with black plastic trims 9 times out of 10

 

[paulsharvey]

Typical fleet is gonna target 150k miles turn over, or about every 3-4 years. They are replacing trucks every year, on a rotation. Ford is probably (i would shocked if they arent) by far the largest player in fleet vehicles, but all of them play in that field.

I kinda partially stand corrected; according to AI, 25-35% of Stellantis' sales are fleet; Ford is 25-30%, GM is 20-25%; Nissian 15-20%; Toyota is down at 8-12%. A Major note; this is commercial fleets, government sales, And rental fleets. Im mostly thinking trucks, and not rental car fleets...

 

[ultrarunner]

Progress ?



Rgds, D.

Longevity…

 

[ultrarunner]

Found just the truck for you...at the McClouth Threshing Bee in McClouth, Kansas last week. Zoom in on that sticker on the side!

View attachment 4133574

Definitely a fusion of several production years…

30-31 bumper and cowl section with with 28-29 wheels and radiator…

 

[ultrarunner]

Typical fleet is gonna target 150k miles turn over, or about every 3-4 years. They are replacing trucks every year, on a rotation. Ford is probably (i would shocked if they arent) by far the largest player in fleet vehicles, but all of them play in that field.

I kinda partially stand corrected; according to AI, 25-35% of Stellantis' sales are fleet; Ford is 25-30%, GM is 20-25%; Nissian 15-20%; Toyota is down at 8-12%. A Major note; this is commercial fleets, government sales, And rental fleets. Im mostly thinking trucks, and not rental car fleets...

The county ordered new pickups… white with rubber mats, auto with A/C and black trim.

Then I saw one oddball with chrome and radio with carpet and upgrade wheels… it was for county Director of maintenance…

Can’t say if true or not but was told with large fleet orders getting one for the top dog a little more plush is not unusual…

 

[3930dave]

Found just the truck for you...at the McClouth Threshing Bee in McClouth, Kansas last week. Zoom in on that sticker on the side!

View attachment 4133574

Big and, from the American company that won @ Lemans, again.

Breezy up here 6+mo/yr, and hot down your way, much of the year, but probably wouldn't even notice an Echo Mike Papa....

Rgds, D.