How much ballast for a 40hp machine (TC40DA)

[Fields_mj]

I'm curious how much ballast weight someone would recommend for a 40hp tractor and loader. This past Jan I picked up a (new to me) TC40DA with a cab. It doesn't currently have any ballast. Picking up IBC totes stacked full of seasoned hickory is enough to almost lift the back wheels off the ground. I've been making do this summer by running it in 4wd. My yard is flat, and I'm only lifting them less than a foot, and I'm leaving the hydrostat in low range while moving them. Regardless, I want to add some weight for both safety sake, and to add traction. Per Tractordata.com, the tractor weights around 3500 lbs empty. I'm guessing that the 250TL loader and cab adds another 1,000 lbs.

My old tractor is a Ford 1710. Its a 4wd, but its missing some of the gears so its functionally a 2wd. With the 770 Loader and wheel weights, I'd estimate it weighs 3500 lbs. It has AG tires and I had them loaded with beat juice (32 gal each) and that made a HUGE difference in traction. That brought the total weight to around 4,200lbs. It handles well, but it also made it to where I absolutely can not use it when the ground is soft. The new tractor has 17.4x24 industrial tires and I was able to move it in much softer conditions without rutting things up this spring. I'm not ruling out putting SOME beat juice in the rear tires (they hold 55 gal ea), but I'd like to try adding a home made ballast box first and see how I like that. The question is how much to add. I have access to 30 gal and 55gal poly drums. My math says a 30gal drum of concrete weighs 600 lbs, and a 55 gal drum weighs closer to 1,000 lbs. I haven't done much work with the 3 pt, but Tractordata.com says that its lift capacity is +2300 lbs at 24" so it should do fin with 1,000 lbs, but I also need to be able to lift those IBC totes of firewood at the same time....

Thoughts/opinions???

Thanks,
Mark

 

[AaronD81]

My tractor is similarly sized and the owner's manual recommends 700lbs. I also used a plastic barrel with one of these Amazon hitches filled with concrete to just under 1,000lbs and it works great and cost less than $100. Ballast on the 3 point is much more useful for counteracting loader weight than filled tires, and relieves more stress from the front axle. I'd suggest 1,000lbs for you.

 

[dodge man]

I’m going to say 1000 pounds minimum, 1500 might be better. The owners manual might say. If your tractor will lift it and almost be picking up the rear tires that is severely overloading the front axle. I’ve done it also but usually because I’m too lazy to hook up the ballast box. I’ve stopped doing it to because of how bad it overloads the front compared to its spec.

 

[RjCorazza]

I would agree that 1000 lbs would be a good starting point, along with the 55 gallons of fluid in the tires. I like having the loaded rear tires for traction, and generally use my 735 lb ditch bank flail for 3 point ballast. Setting the flail at its furthest to the rear and centered position (maybe around 4' from the pins?) is a fair amount of ballast for loader work.

 

[WM75Guy]

Our TC40DA has a Red Master II arena drag on it all the time. It weights 816# and sticks out a bit so leverage helps. The tires are not loaded. I have maxed out the loader lifting pallets and didn't have an issue with the rear wheels getting light. I do go slow with the weight low so as to not have issues.

 

[Fields_mj]

I’m going to say 1000 pounds minimum, 1500 might be better. The owners manual might say. If your tractor will lift it and almost be picking up the rear tires that is severely overloading the front axle. I’ve done it also but usually because I’m too lazy to hook up the ballast box. I’ve stopped doing it to because of how bad it overloads the front compared to its spec.

That's why I'm bumping this up on the priority list. I'm basically putting over 5k on the front axle which is a no-no. So far, I've only moved 9 boxes about 100ft each, this practice needs to stop.

If I load the rear tires, it won't be with 55gal in each tire. I don't want a machine that weighs well over 5k empty. Fluid in the tires gains me traction, but it doesn't get weight off the front axle. I'll start with a 55gal drum full of cement and see how things go. If it seems like I need more, I'll probably try to find a way to add more weight to the rear hitch so long as its not decreasing my loader's lift capacity. The more I can add back there, the more weight I take off the front axle, and the easier it is on the drivetrain.

 

[rScotty]

I'm curious how much ballast weight someone would recommend for a 40hp tractor and loader. This past Jan I picked up a (new to me) TC40DA with a cab. It doesn't currently have any ballast. Picking up IBC totes stacked full of seasoned hickory is enough to almost lift the back wheels off the ground. I've been making do this summer by running it in 4wd. My yard is flat, and I'm only lifting them less than a foot, and I'm leaving the hydrostat in low range while moving them. Regardless, I want to add some weight for both safety sake, and to add traction.

Mark, reading through your original post, in my mind the most important reason you give for adding weight would be so you can stop running it in 4wd with a load in the FEL.

Compact tractors have a part time 4wd assist; they aren't intended to carry a load around in 4wd.
Driving any distance in 4wd with a heavy FEL load is a good way to get into costly repairs.

Of course you could always just not stack th IBC totes so full. That would solve most of the problems and cost nothing, but it is still good practice not to run it in 4wd any distance.... even without a load.
rScotty

 

[RjCorazza]

That's why I'm bumping this up on the priority list. I'm basically putting over 5k on the front axle which is a no-no. So far, I've only moved 9 boxes about 100ft each, this practice needs to stop.

If I load the rear tires, it won't be with 55gal in each tire. I don't want a machine that weighs well over 5k empty. Fluid in the tires gains me traction, but it doesn't get weight off the front axle. I'll start with a 55gal drum full of cement and see how things go. If it seems like I need more, I'll probably try to find a way to add more weight to the rear hitch so long as its not decreasing my loader's lift capacity. The more I can add back there, the more weight I take off the front axle, and the easier it is on the drivetrain.

Sounds like a plan. You have a good understanding of 3 point ballast vs loaded tires, which occasionally gets argued here on TBN.
I personally like having the full (75%) loaded tires, as I need all the weight I can get for snow plowing. I am considering adding 600lbs of iron to the rims (total) if I can ever get over the cost!

 

[CH4Ohio]

I know you could make something cheaper. But you'd probably have half of this in it by the time you buy concrete, hardware, etc. Wouldn't you? This is a pretty easy way to add ballast and they'll deliver it to your door -- free. I filled mine with gravel and then hung some brake rotors on rods inserted into the vertical holes. Haven't weighed it but it did the trick. (This is just an example -- there are dozens of options online from different vendors.)

 

[WM75Guy]

The Tractordata info is wrong, it will not lift that much. I struggle with my 16LA loader, the previous model to the 250TL, to get a pallet with 1500# off the trailer with my Land Pride PFL3048 SSQA forks which weigh 358#. If I can tilt the load back over the pins without dumping stuff off, it helps a lot. The NH website says the max lift for the model 250TLA is 1822# at the pin, 1354# at 24" (500mm). It would be even less with the pallet sticking out 36"-48" in front, plus add the weight of the pallet forks. That is to max height but it won't do much better at lower heights. That decreases the amount of ballast you need to be stable. Based on those numbers and since you have the cab weight, 600# of ballast should work but 1000# won't overload the machine.

 

[Fields_mj]

I know you could make something cheaper. But you'd probably have half of this in it by the time you buy concrete, hardware, etc. Wouldn't you? This is a pretty easy way to add ballast and they'll deliver it to your door -- free. I filled mine with gravel and then hung some brake rotors on rods inserted into the vertical holes. Haven't weighed it but it did the trick. (This is just an example -- there are dozens of options online from different vendors.)

View attachment 3842704

Yeah, but that's just the box. You still have to fill it with something. I have a frame that I built and mounted to my 3pt. Its a big rectangle with a vertical 2.5" sq tube (2" receiver) welded to it along with a couple of receivers on the bottom. I have forks that mount to it. My long term plan is to run a piece of 2" sq tube through the center of a barrel and have it stick out about 10" on the flat sized of the barrel. The plan is to leave the barrel flat on the ground so that (push come to shove) it can be rolled around. I'll pick it up with the forks when I want the weight. I'll weld some tabs to the sq tube to capture the forks, and then run a bolt through them to clamp it to the forks so it doesn't want to move around as much. In theory, that would let me put it further out on the forks as well, taking even more weight off the front axle. I'm not convinced the clamps will hold it out there, but I'm also not apposed to drilling a hole through each fork and pinning the weight in place.

If I can't get that built in the near future, I may pick up some more RR ties and just pick those up with the rear forks. I can get RR ties for under $20, and I need to get 8-10 of them for some other projects anyway.

 

[Fields_mj]

Sounds like a plan. You have a good understanding of 3 point ballast vs loaded tires, which occasionally gets argued here on TBN.
I personally like having the full (75%) loaded tires, as I need all the weight I can get for snow plowing. I am considering adding 600lbs of iron to the rims (total) if I can ever get over the cost!

I'd strongly recommend tire chains. I've already found that the 1710 with 2wd and chains can push a lot more snow than the TC40 with 4wd and no chains. Having said that, I too like the way loaded tires behave with regards to traction. For where I'm at, what I have, and what I'm doing, traction isn't a huge issue.

 

[RjCorazza]

I'd strongly recommend tire chains. I've already found that the 1710 with 2wd and chains can push a lot more snow than the TC40 with 4wd and no chains. Having said that, I too like the way loaded tires behave with regards to traction. For where I'm at, what I have, and what I'm doing, traction isn't a huge issue.

I have chains, but my customer base would not tolerate the chain marks on pavement. A big selling point for me is UHMW Polyethylene plow edges and no chains.
Worst case scenario (that I haven't encountered yet in 15 years) I can chain up and get the job done.

 

[Fields_mj]

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) those are the customers who are willing to pay a premium to get the work done exactly the way they want it.

 

[CH4Ohio]

Yeah, but that's just the box. You still have to fill it with something. I have a frame that I built and mounted to my 3pt. Its a big rectangle with a vertical 2.5" sq tube (2" receiver) welded to it along with a couple of receivers on the bottom. I have forks that mount to it. My long term plan is to run a piece of 2" sq tube through the center of a barrel and have it stick out about 10" on the flat sized of the barrel. The plan is to leave the barrel flat on the ground so that (push come to shove) it can be rolled around. I'll pick it up with the forks when I want the weight. I'll weld some tabs to the sq tube to capture the forks, and then run a bolt through them to clamp it to the forks so it doesn't want to move around as much. In theory, that would let me put it further out on the forks as well, taking even more weight off the front axle. I'm not convinced the clamps will hold it out there, but I'm also not apposed to drilling a hole through each fork and pinning the weight in place.

If I can't get that built in the near future, I may pick up some more RR ties and just pick those up with the rear forks. I can get RR ties for under $20, and I need to get 8-10 of them for some other projects anyway.

Well sounds like you've got a plan!

Personally, I wouldn't want to push the weight FARTHER back for leverage. I think keeping the ballast as close as possible makes the whole tractor more stable and less tippy. Certainly wouldn't want it rolling back or moving either so your idea about pinning it or keeping it from moving makes a lot of sense. Never thought about RR ties, but again, wouldn't want all that length rocking side-to-side when you're looking for stability. It would certainly help keep the rear end on the ground but mine tends to tip sideways when turning with a big load up front.

Picking the ballast up with forks is a neat idea. Pics would be appreciated when you get it together!

 

[SPYDERLK]

That's why I'm bumping this up on the priority list. I'm basically putting over 5k on the front axle which is a no-no. So far, I've only moved 9 boxes about 100ft each, this practice needs to stop.

If I load the rear tires, it won't be with 55gal in each tire. I don't want a machine that weighs well over 5k empty. Fluid in the tires gains me traction, but it doesn't get weight off the front axle. I'll start with a 55gal drum full of cement and see how things go. If it seems like I need more, I'll probably try to find a way to add more weight to the rear hitch so long as its not decreasing my loader's lift capacity. The more I can add back there, the more weight I take off the front axle, and the easier it is on the drivetrain.

If you have a bushog put it on semi permanent. Theres 600#+ and leverage. Add some weight on top of deck when you need it. Weight on the 3ph has no effect on lift capacity of the loader -- just gives stability and eases loading on front end components.

 

[Fields_mj]

If I use RR ties, I'll likely drill a 1/2" hole though them and drive a piece of rebar through it, and then wrap a cheap strap around it to keep them all together. I have a couple pieces of ties left over from other projects. I'd probably lag them to the bottom like a runner so I could slide the forks under them.

If I'm using the loader, I'm not generally moving very fast. My understanding is that the loader weighs around 1100 lbs with no attachment. Forks plus frame is another 300 lbs. Combined, they apply more leverage from the rear axle than I'd ever be able to create with forks mounted to the 3pt. Now, if I hooked up my 6' bush hog, that might be a different story...

 

[Fields_mj]

If you have a bushog put it on semi permanent. Theres 600#+ and leverage. Add some weight on top of deck when you need it. Weight on the 3ph has no effect on lift capacity of the loader -- just gives stability and eases loading on front end components.

I had thought about that. Problem is that its currently behind all of my firewood (Ooops! Poor planning on my end), and I think mine sticks out further than most. It would make it pretty difficult to navigate around where I'm currently trying to work.

 

[nyone]

Load the rear tires. Idk how people drive machines that have loaders and no weight on the rear.
Also 3pt balist is cheap but it sucks unless you never use any other 3pt attachment. I built one years ago and never use it as I always have something else on the 3pt.

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

When I built my ballast box (a metal 55 gallon barrel) I put 2 3" PVC Pipes capped on one end with glue and the other the caps (rain caps) on top are lose. I use that as a place to store shovels and other tools as needed when using it. I left a little at the top for a length of chain.