Leveling Modern Ag Batwing

[matthew.maxwell2]

I can't figure out how to get the wings leveled on my Modern Ag 15' Predator. The manual says to loosen the ratchets but that doesn't seem to do anything except make the linkage loose. What am I missing. Hard to tell from the pictures but the outside skid of the wings are about 8" of the ground with the center section on the ground.

 

[leonz]

My first suggestion is to contact the Moden Ag People and ask them for a manual
for that mower and a parts list as it needs a lot of work.

You may have the hoses connected wrong.

You need to block the mower up and fix the hydraulic hoses before they are damaged
and bundle them together with heavy black tie wraps.

The 2 center ratchet jacks adjust the carrier wheel height when mowing and transporting it.
They have to have the same number of exposed threads!

The cylinder stops on the center cylinder fix the lower or "actual" mowing height in the center section.

The wings are controlled by the second pair of remotes.

You need to invest color coded hydraulic hose caps and remote plugs
to keep the hose connections straight.

Do you have three sets of remotes on your mule or just two?

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

My first suggestion is to contact the Moden Ag People and ask them for a manual
for that mower and a parts list as it needs a lot of work.

You may have the hoses connected wrong.

You need to block the mower up and fix the hydraulic hoses before they are damaged
and bundle them together with heavy black tie wraps.

The 2 center ratchet jacks adjust the carrier wheel height when mowing and transporting it.
They have to have the same number of exposed threads!

The cylinder stops on the center cylinder fix the lower or "actual" mowing height in the center section.

The wings are controlled by the second pair of remotes.

You need to invest color coded hydraulic hose caps and remote plugs
to keep the hose connections straight.

Do you have three sets of remotes on your mule or just two?

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I've responded to things in the same order as your suggestions. I really appreciate it!

I have a copy of the manual. Out curiosity, what work do you see that it needs?

Hoses appear to be connected correctly. The way it's set up right now is there are double acting cylinders to raise and lower. Single acting cylinders to raise the the wings (power up/gravity down). It's setup and hooked up just like this (from the manual) and everything raises and lowers how it should.

Good suggestion on bundling the hoses for protection. I'll clean that all up after I get everything set right.

I understand the ratchets for leveling front to back on the center section and I understand why they need to be same length. This is what the manual says for leveling the wings - but I don't understand how the ratchets affect the level of the wings and when I adjust them it doesn't seem to affect anything.

I have cylinder stops for setting the height.

The wings are controlled by separate remotes - power up, gravity down. There is an alternate install where you can tee them together and run it with 2 remotes, but I have a 3 remote setup.

I have colored caps and plugs but I want to make sure i have everything set correctly before I put them on.

I have 3 remotes. (2 remotes with an electronic splitter to be precise, but it functions the same).


It almost seems like the cylinders to raise and lower the wings should be "power down" also, but that's not the way it shows them and there is no obvious way to adjust them. It does look better when the center section is raised, but gets out of level as soon as I lower it.

 

[leonz]

Check with your John Deere dealer and ask if one or both of the remotes on your mule
can be used with an electric valve splitter.

One of the mounted remotes may only be single acting :^(

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Are the cylinders long enough to let down anymore? the wings can only go as far as the hydraulic cylinder will let them.

 

[oldnslo]

It looks like the wing wheel lift cylinders are still extended while center section are fully retracted if plumbed correctly all of the wheel lift cylinders should fully retract when lowered. Will the wing lift cylinders retract further? The diagram calls them phasing cylinders

 

[Seven Gables]

Old and slow is correct, those outer cylinders that pivot the wing carrier tires need to retract as there what controls the wing cut height. Possibly you’ll want cylinder stops on those two cylinders to hold them at the proper wing cut height

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

Are the cylinders long enough to let down anymore? the wings can only go as far as the hydraulic cylinder will let them.

I assumed they were original, but I'm not sure. I guess I could unpin the cylinders and see if it settles all they way down

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

It looks like the wing wheel lift cylinders are still extended while center section are fully retracted if plumbed correctly all of the wheel lift cylinders should fully retract when lowered. Will the wing lift cylinders retract further? The diagram calls them phasing cylinders

They don't seem to retract any further. I might have to try to swap some hoses around

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

Check with your John Deere dealer and ask if one or both of the remotes on your mule
can be used with an electric valve splitter.

One of the mounted remotes may only be single acting :^(

The hydraulics seem to work like they should, the wings and deck go to and down the way I would expect, even with the splitter

 

[5030]

I use a long straight 2x4 to level mine and adjust the trailing wheels accordingly.

 

[5030]

ooops, I run mine behind one of my Kubota's on the remotes.

 

[oldnslo]

They don't seem to retract any further. I might have to try to swap some hoses around

I would start by tracing the lines from lift cylinders to see how they are connected.
Take notes or pictures showing:
what blind or cap end of main cylinder is connected to
What the rod end of main lift cylinder is connected to
What the left and right wing lift cylinders blind or cap ends are connected to.

Pictures looks like left & right lift cylinder rod ends goes straight to the tractor. Is this correct?

What are the wing fold cylinders connected to? These are single acting so should connect direct to tractor.

With this info we should be able to figure what the problem is.

 

[leonz]

The wing cylinders are connected and used as double acting cylinders

Have you tried moving the draft controls with the engine shut
off to see if the cylinders will bleed back to the oil reservoir in
the transmission to eliminate an air lock condition?

I neglected to ask you if the hydraulic system on your mule is an
open center or closed center hydraulic system.

An open center hydraulic system uses a gear or vane pump and allows
hydraulic oil to pass freely through draft control valves, steering valves
and the transmission if it is gear driven.

A closed center hydraulic system only operates when the control valve
handle pushes or pulls the swash plate that moves the pistons back
and forth to create movement.

Please readjust the ratchet jacks to have an equal number of threads
exposed on one side as it appears that the right ratchet jack adjustment
is longer in length so you need to loosen the left ratchet jack to the
same length to eliminate any binding of the wings.

 

[oldnslo]

The wing cylinders are connected and used as double acting cylinders

Agree wing wheel lift cylinders are double acting but do appear to be connected that way.

Have you tried moving the draft controls with the engine shut
off to see if the cylinders will bleed back to the oil reservoir in
the transmission to eliminate an air lock condition?

If valve have float I would just put everything in float to see what happens. Not sure what model Deere that mower is hooked to

I neglected to ask you if the hydraulic system on your mule is an
open center or closed center hydraulic system.

Why does open or closed center matter? The valves are most likely cylinder spool with A & B work ports blocked in spring center position.

An open center hydraulic system uses a gear or vane pump and allows
hydraulic oil to pass freely through draft control valves, steering valves
and the transmission if it is gear driven.

A closed center hydraulic system only operates when the control valve
handle pushes or pulls the swash plate that moves the pistons back
and forth to create movement.

Please readjust the ratchet jacks to have an equal number of threads
exposed on one side as it appears that the right ratchet jack adjustment
is longer in length so you need to loosen the left ratchet jack to the
same length to eliminate any binding of the wings.

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

It looks like the wing wheel lift cylinders are still extended while center section are fully retracted if plumbed correctly all of the wheel lift cylinders should fully retract when lowered. Will the wing lift cylinders retract further? The diagram calls them phasing cylinders

After looking at it a little more, it appears the "phasing cylinders" for the wings aren't retracting all the way so they are different lengths than the cylinder in the center.
Not quite sure how to make them all matched. I would assume that if one bottoms out the others should still retract until they also bottom out, but they just stop when the first one stops

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

The wing cylinders are connected and used as double acting cylinders

Have you tried moving the draft controls with the engine shut
off to see if the cylinders will bleed back to the oil reservoir in
the transmission to eliminate an air lock condition?

I neglected to ask you if the hydraulic system on your mule is an
open center or closed center hydraulic system.

An open center hydraulic system uses a gear or vane pump and allows
hydraulic oil to pass freely through draft control valves, steering valves
and the transmission if it is gear driven.

A closed center hydraulic system only operates when the control valve
handle pushes or pulls the swash plate that moves the pistons back
and forth to create movement.

Please readjust the ratchet jacks to have an equal number of threads
exposed on one side as it appears that the right ratchet jack adjustment
is longer in length so you need to loosen the left ratchet jack to the
same length to eliminate any binding of the wings.

I did even the ratchets back out.
It's a JD 6415 and I believe it's an open center setup.
It's seems like airlock on the lift cylinders might be doing it. I had to use the tractor for someone else today, but tomorrow I'll him it back up and see if I can bleed them.

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

Agree wing wheel lift cylinders are double acting but do appear to be connected that way.

If valve have float I would just put everything in float to see what happens. Not sure what model Deere that mower is hooked to

Why does open or closed center matter? The valves are most likely cylinder spool with A & B work ports blocked in spring center position.

The deck lift cylinders are definitely double acting but the wing lift are plumbed up to be single acting. Looks like there are ports on the opposite side of the cylinder that might make them double acting but they are plugged off - and this matches the way the manual shows it.
Its a 6415 and it does have a flat position. Might be a good way to bleed the system. I'll give it a shot.

 

[matthew.maxwell2]

I would start by tracing the lines from lift cylinders to see how they are connected.
Take notes or pictures showing:
what blind or cap end of main cylinder is connected to
What the rod end of main lift cylinder is connected to
What the left and right wing lift cylinders blind or cap ends are connected to.

Pictures looks like left & right lift cylinder rod ends goes straight to the tractor. Is this correct?

What are the wing fold cylinders connected to? These are single acting so should connect direct to tractor.

With this info we should be able to figure what the problem is.

I'll get some pictures when I hook it back up to the tractor this afternoon or tomorrow.
Thanks for the help!

 

[oldnslo]

Matt,
A question that should have been asked is did this mower used to work and now suddenly doesn’t? If yes what changed? Hose break, cylinder leaking and repaired, etc.

I am wondering if the wheel lift cylinders are a master - slave system where the main lift cylinder rod end is connected to the wing lift cylinders blind or cap end. These require “phasing” and fixed cylinder sizes so the rod end volume of main lift is the same as the two wing lift cap end volume. Not a common type design but in theory if forces all three cylinders to move together.

You don’t need to connect the tractor to trace those lines.