Buying Advice Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start

[marinusdees]

Looking to purchase my first tractor. Have decent lawn tractor (JD x350) but it's proven inadequate for any projects beyond cutting grass.

There is a John Deere dealership nearby, and a Kubota dealer even closer, so I would like to limit my search to these brands.

I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington. It's slightly hilly, very rocky soil (sometimes boulders), there's several trees but it's mostly a meadow, and it's constantly on the verge of being swallowed by blackberry. The property was neglected prior to purchase, so I'm in the process of restoring it and transforming it into my sanctuary. Use cases are moving wood, I would love to get a brush hog (as I've paid for this several times now and it's baffling how quickly blackberry grows), moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.

I think it's time for me to start considering a tractor. My budget is probably around $20K with some wiggle room.

Additional considerations: I've never used a tractor before, I'm not very mechanically inclined, and as such, I would love to have something user friendly and reliable. I don't know if this matters, I'm in my 30s and a woman, so I want to come prepared to any dealer so I don't get taken advantage of.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me. The anonymity of the internet will allow me to admit I'm sorta an idiot and in over my head, and maybe I should just stick to hand tools and manual labor.

Either way, thank you for any insight you can provide, I sincerely appreciate your help and advice.

You need a goat. Much cheaper, go to the nearest livestock auction, buy a goat. Turn it loose or on a chain, will destroy any vegetation, eat blackberry vines. When it's done, take it back to the auction, get your money back. Guaranteed. If you are in a hurry, get two goats.

 

[WinterDeere]

What I don't get about the TLB recommendation, or really any backhoe, is the OP said their primary need is a 3-point mower. TLB's remove the 3-point hitch, and even a regular CUT with subframe backhoe, is 3-point easily accessible?

Laugh about goats, but I had a friend go this route. Worked well on his 17 acres, but taking care of them over winter was a real drag.

 

[Pleease]

No need to get 5’ implements for your use on 3.8 acres. 4 foot would be plenty.

From what you describe, the subcompacts like the BX Kubota and 1025 Deere would be more than adequate. You could bump up to a slightly taller machine like the B or 2025, but not really necessary.

You mention moving wood. Can you describe this scenario? Is it logs (how big) or firewood. This would be my only thought that a bigger machine would come into play if you wanted to move large logs. Everything else can be handled with ease by the subcompacts and compact mentioned.

Thank you - another thing I didn't know and now I do! Maneuverability is crucial. I like to LARP as a strong lady, but sometimes I have to accept that I have limits. Accessible changes I can make on my own will be very important to me. Based on what has been shared, keeping the front loader on will likely be the primary configuration yet can't be fixed since I have other uses for the tractor, too.

Someone might've mentioned this - I didn't check all the comments - but a tooth bar is incredibly helpful for digging and clearing land. I haven't had blackberry plants to deal with, but my Kubota BX1880 (their smallest-horsepower model) is a brush-clearing savage with the BXpanded Piranha tooth bar attached, even taking down saplings easily.

The capabilities of a small 4wd diesel tractor are somewhat amazing. I mow a guesstimated 2 acres at our lake property, more than half of that on a steep hill. I was able to dig a flat spot for a 16x24' shed into the side of a steep hill comprised of clay and rock - some rocks too big to fit in the 4ft bucket.

I had never even sat on anything larger than a riding mower until driving the BX around the dealer parking lot, but in time developed a good feel for it. You have to be careful on hills - these machines are naturally tippy - but mine will climb just about any grade safely as long as I go up and down the hills vertically.

So aside from the awesome utility of the tractor, I bet you're actually going to enjoy it - I know I do .

 

[pacosperson]

Looking to purchase my first tractor. Have decent lawn tractor (JD x350) but it's proven inadequate for any projects beyond cutting grass.

There is a John Deere dealership nearby, and a Kubota dealer even closer, so I would like to limit my search to these brands.

I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington. It's slightly hilly, very rocky soil (sometimes boulders), there's several trees but it's mostly a meadow, and it's constantly on the verge of being swallowed by blackberry. The property was neglected prior to purchase, so I'm in the process of restoring it and transforming it into my sanctuary. Use cases are moving wood, I would love to get a brush hog (as I've paid for this several times now and it's baffling how quickly blackberry grows), moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.

I think it's time for me to start considering a tractor. My budget is probably around $20K with some wiggle room.

Additional considerations: I've never used a tractor before, I'm not very mechanically inclined, and as such, I would love to have something user friendly and reliable. I don't know if this matters, I'm in my 30s and a woman, so I want to come prepared to any dealer so I don't get taken advantage of.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me. The anonymity of the internet will allow me to admit I'm sorta an idiot and in over my head, and maybe I should just stick to hand tools and manual labor.

Either way, thank you for any insight you can provide, I sincerely appreciate your help and advice.

Regardless of the brand, you end up with a tractor with a bucket.

These can be dangerous on your ‘hilly’ ground. Never move the tractor around with bucket raised higher than absolutely necessary and never traverse along a hillside with the bucket raised. That tractor will tip over if the bucket is raised altering the center of gravity.

Definitely get a 4 wheel drive. The tractor will have brakes on the rear wheels only. Traveling downhill with a bucket loaded with fire wood you will lose braking as the weight shifts. In 4 wheel drive you can use the front wheels (which will have added traction) to help you slow down.

 

[fattylumpkins]

Cursory reviewing the a popular marketplace, I sent a message about this one.

Based on another post by her, appears to be an estate sale, which describes the ideal situation you all defined previously.

I should go to a dealer first just to get acquainted with the equipment prior to an open dive into meeting with an individual, I feel. Going to try to do that this week.

Loader controls are often referred to as "lift" and "curl", the first being the hydraulic cylinders that lift the loader arms, and the latter being the hydraulic cylinders that dump or roll the bucket fore/aft. When directing an operator at the controls, we typically use the wrist to show curl, and movement from the elbow or shoulder to show lift.

Like wise with "Tractor Time with Tim", which was very good specifically for those looking at sub-compact tractors.

There are always new ones popping up, I haven't really watched much since the last time I was shopping for my latest new tractor, 2018/19.

Thank you for explaining. That would be really nice to have, I don't necessary need it, but I could definitely already see several ways I'd want to use that.

I agree. The little Kubota B26 has been made now for close to 20 years as an old style TLB without emissions or computers. TLBs are just like tractors, but on TLBs the backhoe is standard, while the 3pt becomes the optional attachment. Has a PTO and simple 3 speed HST transmission plus a 4 post canopy.
They tend to have industrial tires. Nice. An older one might just barely be within her price range

As for good books on general tractors and tractoring I don't know of any such. It seems an odd omission.
rScotty

I'll keep an eye out for this model particularly, don't see anything secondhand posted at the moment.

Makes sense about books - an owners manual would be fine enough reading when I get one!

 

[fattylumpkins]

You need a goat. Much cheaper, go to the nearest livestock auction, buy a goat. Turn it loose or on a chain, will destroy any vegetation, eat blackberry vines. When it's done, take it back to the auction, get your money back. Guaranteed. If you are in a hurry, get two goats.

I want to get a goat or 2! For multiple reasons - my main hobby besides outdoors-related things is spinning wool and an pygora goat is in my future, but most likely distant future. The dual purpose is tempting. Not sure if that's actually feasible given what I've read about keeping them (escape artists and mischievous) in combination with how many hours my day job takes from me, but this is a great point!

 

[fattylumpkins]

Regardless of the brand, you end up with a tractor with a bucket.

These can be dangerous on your ‘hilly’ ground. Never move the tractor around with bucket raised higher than absolutely necessary and never traverse along a hillside with the bucket raised. That tractor will tip over if the bucket is raised altering the center of gravity.

Definitely get a 4 wheel drive. The tractor will have brakes on the rear wheels only. Traveling downhill with a bucket loaded with fire wood you will lose braking as the weight shifts. In 4 wheel drive you can use the front wheels (which will have added traction) to help you slow down.

Thank you! I absolutely needed to read this, and appreciate your safety advice I needed to read this.

 

[rScotty]

What I don't get about the TLB recommendation, or really any backhoe, is the OP said their primary need is a 3-point mower. TLB's remove the 3-point hitch, and even a regular CUT with subframe backhoe, is 3-point easily accessible?

Laugh about goats, but I had a friend go this route. Worked well on his 17 acres, but taking care of them over winter was a real drag.

Nobody who ever had goats is laughing. They will eat anything and everything. Thorns are no problem.
Back in HS, my trailermate and I had three: Billy, Buck, and Nancy. Purchased for $2.00 each at the livestock auction. Self-sufficent critters.

Re: TLBs vs CUTs... I don't get the feeling that the OP knows enough yet to even describe a primary need. All she knows is she has ambitions to do work on her 4 acres. Maybe do for herself what she has been paying to have done. There are lots of options. Paying someone else - or using goats - to mow and rip out blackberry brambles isn't such a bad option either.
rScotty

 

[jack s]

Looking to purchase my first tractor. Have decent lawn tractor (JD x350) but it's proven inadequate for any projects beyond cutting grass.

There is a John Deere dealership nearby, and a Kubota dealer even closer, so I would like to limit my search to these brands.

I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington. It's slightly hilly, very rocky soil (sometimes boulders), there's several trees but it's mostly a meadow, and it's constantly on the verge of being swallowed by blackberry. The property was neglected prior to purchase, so I'm in the process of restoring it and transforming it into my sanctuary. Use cases are moving wood, I would love to get a brush hog (as I've paid for this several times now and it's baffling how quickly blackberry grows), moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.

I think it's time for me to start considering a tractor. My budget is probably around $20K with some wiggle room.

Additional considerations: I've never used a tractor before, I'm not very mechanically inclined, and as such, I would love to have something user friendly and reliable. I don't know if this matters, I'm in my 30s and a woman, so I want to come prepared to any dealer so I don't get taken advantage of.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me. The anonymity of the internet will allow me to admit I'm sorta an idiot and in over my head, and maybe I should just stick to hand tools and manual labor.

Either way, thank you for any insight you can provide, I sincerely appreciate your help and advice.

I have a similar sized property, with similar needs. I bought a Kubota B2320 (23 hp) about 17 years ago, and I have been very happy with mine. I have never owned anything else, so I don't have anything to compare it to. If you follow the maintenance recommendations it should last a very long time. I think a 23-30 hp tractor should be sufficient for normal needs for a property like yours. I have a loader bucket (which came with the tractor), a bush hog, and a small 5x8 trailer. I haven't priced one recently, but it was all less than $20k when I bought mine. It is very easy to operate and quite comfortable. The only 2 brands that I considered were Kubota and John Deere. I got the Kubota because they had a special and threw in the loader bucket. I would stay away from the Chinese-made brands. Some people have had good luck with them, and some haven't.

 

[Pleease]

I have a similar sized property, with similar needs. I bought a Kubota B2320 (23 hp) about 17 years ago, and I have been very happy with mine. I have never owned anything else, so I don't have anything to compare it to. If you follow the maintenance recommendations it should last a very long time. I think a 23-30 hp tractor should be sufficient for normal needs for a property like yours. I have a loader bucket (which came with the tractor), a bush hog, and a small 5x8 trailer. I haven't priced one recently, but it was all less than $20k when I bought mine. It is very easy to operate and quite comfortable. The only 2 brands that I considered were Kubota and John Deere. I got the Kubota because they had a special and threw in the loader bucket. I would stay away from the Chinese-made brands. Some people have had good luck with them, and some haven't.

There are no doubt good tractors made by others, but if you decide to make a change "down the road" you can always sell a K or a JD because everyone is familiar with them, and parts should be available for a long time.

 

[etpm]

Do you think a front loader (is that the bucket attachment?) would be something to immediately purchase?

Yes. Absolutely. A front end loader is a HUGE labor saving device.
Eric

 

[California]

I want to get a goat or 2 ... spinning wool and an pygora goat ... (escape artists and mischievous)

I hope you don't have poison oak anywhere on the property!

 

[ning]

Please excuse this dumb question - what is a thumb? I would love to get a backhoe - would you recommend getting that when I make the initial purchase if I decide to purchase new?

Backhoes may be tough to find if not bought new with the machine - the better ones have a sub-frame (to attach to the tractor in multiple places to avoid concentrating the forces) which is specific to a brand, and likely to a small range of models in that brand. There are generic 3ph backhoes but common wisdom says that they abuse the tractor they're attached to. They're all expensive, and people selling used backhoe attachments know how much they cost and unless they're in a big hurry to sell you'd think they're made of gold.

A backhoe will likely add 1/3 to the price of a new machine.

Think long and hard if you really need a backhoe, or if you can get by with renting one - my local town's rental place has Kubota B and L TLB's for rent, and you can rent many times for the price of a backhoe for your machine... and their backhoe is probably stronger than yours will be as well (the B21/26 & L35/L39 are really heavy duty machines).

Before I had a tractor, I often made lists of things to do "next time I rent a backhoe", because a rental here is 4-hour minimum - from when you pick it up to when you drop it off, and that's 30 minutes each way plus a bit of time at the shop and a stop at the fuel station to refill their diesel. That 4 hour minumum ends up being a safer 2 hours of work, for the 4 hour rate (which is like 80% of the day rate), so economically I never wanted to rent for less than a day. You can get a LOT done in a day, so make sure you have a lot of digging lined up to make it worth it!

More often than not though, my list never got long enough for a rental because most of my digging jobs tend to be "I need this hole dug NOW", like "I broke a pipe mowing and need to redo a bunch of plumbing" and so out came the pick & shovel and my back hurt because I'm not going to go rent a backhoe for a little hole! (... yeah I was digging for 4 hours, I should've rented... but also, the rental yard only has a couple machines for rent and they're not always available!) The only times I ever rented a tractor/backhoe back then was when I had a dead horse to bury, not doing that by hand.

So when I started shopping for a tractor, I knew that the "stack up projects to rent a backhoe" just doesn't work for me, and I decided that adding $7000 to the price of my otherwise $23k tractor for a backhoe was worth it. And, it is - as far as my jobs go. Economically, I'd probably still be ahead if I rented for most of the digs I've done, but renting is kinda a hassle, too. I prefer being able to just fire up the tractor, drive over there and dig. Maybe dig more tomorrow, I'm not constrained to a rental schedule. Take off the backhoe and put a different implement on, no worries (20 minutes for the swap), I can swap again soon enough if I need.
But, it's still pretty expensive.
Oh, add the $1k welder bill I just recently paid because my backhoe subframe developed a crack. From the pictures I've seen on the net, it's a design/manufacturing defect, but I bought the tractor 7 years ago so no warranty on that at this point.

Still, I'd buy a backhoe with a new tractor again, but then I also do a lot of digging. For you, with a relatively tight budget, you may want to consider if sinking such a big chunk of that budget into an occasional-use piece that you can rent makes sense. Assuming, of course, that there's a near-ish rental yard, and you can tow their tractor on their trailer; they may also deliver & pick up, which will add considerably to the price of the rental, but it's also pretty convenient because the clock is typically only ticking when you have the equipment (I did this a couple years ago with a 5k telehandler to put up some tall landscaping structures - (it was too big & heavy for my 1-ton truck to tow) 30 minutes of work for $475 including delivery, but it was soooo easyyy). If I didn't have lots of digging projects and a smaller budget, not getting a backhoe would be a no-brainer.

Oh, also. I mentioned previously the "stump bucket" attachment that can go on the loader? That can probably handle a lot of the smaller digging jobs you may otherwise want a backhoe for (removing shrubs or small trees, big rocks/small boulders). Way cheaper than a backhoe, though a totally different tool... just may have enough overlap to be useful enough to put off a big backhoe bill.

 

[JasperFrank]

Consider a different tactic. And believe me, I'm not making a sexist remark here. I live on very similar terrain and bought raw land, 35 years ago. Built a house and then set out to reclaim what I thought I could surrounding the house.

If I was to do a do over, I would work with a landscape specialist first, to see what areas I could have realistically turned in to defensible spaces, and listen to the landscaper for things I never thought of. I would have put that 20K in to hiring out someone with all the heavy equipment, removing boulders and, stumps and laying down fill dirt where needed to make the areas safe and rock free to maintain with the riding mover to keep down the Black Berries. Being an admitted idiot, myself, I thought I could clear the land and make it manageable with my 14 HP Ford 1220, with a box scraper, Bush Hog and Front End Loader. This took thirty years as a DIY project. I salute you, if you are dead set on doing this your self. But in my hindsight, it would have been a better deal to have it all done at once, to have enjoyed the full potential of the property for three decades, instead of always fighting the unforeseen doing this myself, in the incremental patches to clear, and reclaim. There will always be that big freaken rock thats going to take you three days to deal with. And its always just at the margins that I can deal with, with my little equipment.
Best of luck. Just consider this as an alternative.

 

[airbiscuit]

It's hard to resist the siren call of a backhoe. They're sexy. They're also difficult to mount, dismount and store. Unless you plan on using a backhoe more than any other implement - I'd say pass. If the need arises (to a lesser or greater extent) either hire the work done, rent a mini excavator, or buy an older used backhoe for about the cost of a new backhoe attachment.

 

[ning]

20k 35 years ago would have gotten you a lot more landscaping work than it does today.

I'm still clearing part of my land (two steps forward, one back since everything grows so fast) and any bids I've ever gotten for work around here, there's no doubt that by valuing my own time at zero I get 5x more done with my money.

I also found that by doing the work myself, I didn't have to file change orders every time I changed directions - and as I've cleared parts of the land, I've discovered new uses for this little bit and that little bit. 7 years ago I got bids to redo a section of fence; it the best bid was still so high that I undertook the job myself. In the process of clearing the old fence, I realized I could reclaim a chunk of land that had been outside the fence line (still on our property) and so moved where the new fence was going to go - and now I have 20 grape vines planted in that area which would've been in deer territory before. If I had had the bid work done, the fence would've been in the old spot possibly later I'd realize I should've cleared that area, but by DIY I experienced my land and learned more about what it had to offer.

Spend it all on hiring out, and you have a great place - assuming they did what you wanted - at that point. The next year, you have to hire for more, because you don't have a tractor....

 

[JasperFrank]

Hiring out, doesn't mean you will not have a discovery of a new place to utilize. I have to say, it was fun, fulfilling, and interesting to reclaim areas that are now, finally, defensible with the lawn tractor,... it was just too much work to DIY it with the tractor. I could have been doing other things to pay for the hires. Its never zero cost on DIY.

 

[California]

It's hard to resist the siren call of a backhoe. They're sexy. They're also difficult to mount, dismount and store.

Yes to all of that.

And - with that much force, things wear out, and break. We read here about the back of aluminum Kubota transmissions being ripped out.

Mine tore a 3-point pin out of the side of the transmission, actually the right side axle housing, which was a repair I did alone but I doubt OP would attempt. (Thread describing the project). The fault wasn't entirely due to the backhoe but it overstressed a fix I had made years earlier, re-setting that pin in permanent ThreadLocker when I found it sloppy loose back when I bought the then 20 year old tractor. This model hoe had been sold together with this specific model tractor, a dealer option, back when both were new, so nothing was being operated out of spec.

I have torn hoses while raselling stumps out of the ground. Locating a replacement tooth was a PIA, the same tooth had been used by Deere so it should have been available but after much search I found what was described as the last one in existence.

I think even a brand new backhoe will increase your ongoing cost of upkeep.

So just rent one as needed! (I have an orchard with stumps to remove annually but you shouldn't have that much use for one).

 

[2manyrocks]

A BX size tractor will do a lot of work, but some rocks and tree trunks are big enough to stop any size tractor. Dozer can clear a lot of stuff in a few hours that can't be done with a tractor without tearing it up and then not having a tractor to work with.

There's an ongoing discussion here about whether it makes sense to buy a backhoe attachment versus buying one of the $5000 or so mini-excavators. For convenience in not having to mount and unmount it, I lean towards the mini-ex myself, not to mention the house turns 360 degrees which is very handy for digging in tight spaces. Literally, you can spin around to the opposite side of what you are digging and dump the material.

 

[Trackerjoe]

Hi!

I will have to try your recommendation with the chain and hook. I have all of those tools at my disposal right now, and will be giving this a go this weekend My broad fork is how I've been getting at the rhizomes but it's just an overwhelming uphill battle that I am constantly losing. Due to the huge rocks just beneath the surface of the soil, my brush cutter with the fitted blade has become a sketchy weapon - I never know what I'm about to hit.

I will look into what you suggested as well, my cursory review of what was available had me thinking the BX2380 would be the best option for my needs and then came all the (overwhelming) options about add-ons. I think that can be covered by talking to the dealer directly, I just want to know what base version I should seek out. Do you think a front loader (is that the bucket attachment?) would be something to immediately purchase?

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! Such great advice!

Definitely get the loader. The longer you have it, the more uses you'll find. Hard to add a few years down the road and is huge addition to resale value.