Tractor or skid steer? Just bought 150 acres.

[WoodChuckDad]

I agree! Purchasing 150 acres and doesn’t seem to have a clue or can make his own decisions.

You are rude and you come off as a Troll.
Lots of people ask opinions of folks here because there is a great wealth of experience among the members. He obviously has no problem making decisions. He is purchasing 150 acres and has an active horse boarding business. He’s asking questions because he is about to drop $30-50 K and wants to get the best usenof his money

 

[EONE]

I need help figuring out what to buy!

Please tell me what YOU would do! And how YOU would approach this project.

We just bought a 150 acre farm (all crop land). All of it is rolling hills - nothing terribly steep, but not flat either.

In the next year or so, I need to:
1. Cut and grade an entrance from the road (about 50 ft of wooded area next to the road). Need to install culvert, etc. for road access.
2. Grade and install a 1/2 mile long driveway. Everything except the entrance is through the middle of a field - rolling hills - with 1 extra culvert needed
3. Grade a 60'x120' pad for our barn.
4. Clear 2.5 miles of fence line that is currently extremely overgrown honeysuckle (think 50 years of honeysuckle growth)
5. Pound about 1200 5-6'' round posts into the ground (quoted over $70k just to pound the posts, so I'll be doing this myself.)
6. Standard maintenance of pasture - so mow about 150 acres

We plan to hire someone to come in and seed hay - so roundup and a seed drill. We plan to hire that job out to someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Currently all weeds, so will hopefully be pasture and hay fields by this time next year.

But the big question:
Do I buy a tractor or a skid steer (with tracks, so a track loader)? And buying one thing - keeping it for a year to complete all of the above jobs - and then selling it and buying something different - is something I am willing to do.

Budget of about $35-40k, including any needed attachments.

I can buy a track loader for about $30k, a bush hog for $4k, and a post pounder for $4k - and be comfortably under my $40k max. Going this route means I wouldn't be able to harvest my own hay, etc until I sell the track loader and buy a tractor. And bush hogging 150 acres with a track loader is going to be rough.

Alternatively, I spend $30k on a newer 60-70 hp tractor with a loader, $5k on a post pounder, $5k on a bush hog - and be right at my max. I would probably need to rent a bulldozer or track loader to do the driveway, etc - which would be about $2000/week. No idea if I can get it done in one week or not, but my guess is closer to 2 weeks.

And it might actually be better if I buy a cheap dozer ($10k?) and sell it when I am done with it. Then buy the tractor after I sell the dozer.

I need help making a decision! Any and all advice appreciated!

Tractor Loader. 4wd...Not to small. A good brand. The attachments are many....A skidsteer, even on tracks has limited ground clearance & limited applications. They are not realy for everything..A tractor is. I did a lot of clearing with a brush grapple on a 40-50 hp tractor. Lots of grading with a box scraper/ripper with a "Top&Tilt" cylinder set up. Make sure you get your tires loaded "rim guard" ..and or wheel weights. You can use any multitude of grading attachments on the front or rear..Including powered ones....of course you need it for farm work. An Excavator is an awsome machine if you get good with one...Also rent any machines other than the tractor on a weekend rate..cheaper. 150 acres....I would have a TL and a Mini-excavator. I have both now, & several farm tractors, had skidsteers in the past both tracked & wheeled, also owned several dozers big and small........But the do all machine on farm land, wet woods, brushy areas is still the good 'ol 4wd compact or larger tractor. It does it all after the big projects.... Spec it for the work your going to do. Next machine I would OWN -is a mini to midi excavator. Rent a dozer or tracked loader if needed. 150 acres to work/own..I would have a few machines myself. I have been a heavy equipment operator for 45 years and also owned farm land....Now just take care of my seven acres, pond, woods and yard. I only have the old tractors now "Because I like them" and my go to machines are a 50hp New Holland Boomer TL & my 6,000 lb mini-ex. and lot of attachments.

 

[f2000ez]

What type of hay bales are you planning on making. If it’s for horses, then I would assume square bales. Who or how are you planning on picking up the bales on 100 acres of hay??? A bale Barron is well over 100k

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I only have 50 acres and mine was wooded when I got here. But I’ve done some of the things you are talking about so I have some questions and comments that might help. First, how deep is the wood line that separates road from fields? Are you taking shortest route, or most desired route? How substantial are the trees? Are these big things that have to be laid down, pulled out and hauled away? Is this thicket/heavy brush that can be punched thru with a forest mulcher.
Do you have a road route picked out and marked and do you have a general plan on how you will build it to manage water? With rolling hills you can have some pretty wicked erosion when it rains.
In addition to the Geofabric, are you putting down some heavier rock to start? I didn't use fabric but I used #3 railroad ballast for the foundation of my road. Made for a rougher ride but it has been quite stable. I built my road with a 30k lb excavator and tractor with boxblade. First load of x3 was 6 inches thick and a year later I had another 6 inches added. It has settled in and is pretty smooth, but I’m on clay, sand, and rock.

Given the Two week window, I might hire out the trail thru the woods then tackle the rest of it myself.
For the quote you got on putting that trail thru the woods, what did it include?

 

[ruffdog]

When I had my driveway (only 250 ft) put in, the neighbor did it for $1k. With a 6-way dozer, he dug down 1 foot, 12 feet wide, installed culvert, dumped in 4" rock, vib rolled it, gravel on top, level, rolled, in half a day. It would have cost me much more if I did it myself if you figure EVERYTHING in. Back then, I could make money faster at my job than I could save by doing the work myself. Everyone's situation is different though.

 

[dodge man]

Woodchuckdad echoed my concerns. The first thing you need to do is punch in your access point. If this is small brushy trees a tractor will do it. If it’s bigger stuff this might be something you want to hire out for a day or two.

 

[buffaloman]

I was in your situation in 1993 but with a smaller piece of property. I made a business plan, a financial plan and a personal plan before buying the property. The wife & I agreed upon everything before we started. Here is what I learned:

1) if your wife and family aren't into this 1000%, it is highly probable you will have MAJOR issues that end badly. If you work outside, will she run the boarding full time 24/7? 2) It will take you more money , time and health than you have. 3) Unless you continue your outside fulltime employment, you will go bankrupt. 4) Your plan today will need to change as the economy, regulations, etc. continue to change , especially when you have no control. 5) Don't plan any longer than 3 years. Financially you must break even within that period or you will probably have too many issues and possibly fail. After a year or two into the 3 year plan, develop a new plan 6) I hope you are doing this to change your lifestyle not your income because most farming today doesn't make a profit.

If you aren't a good mechanic, don't buy used equipment. Used equipment may sound economical but a breakdown will cost you more than finance charges. Do you have a flatbed to haul your equipment to a mechanic? When haying a field and your baler breaks down or your tractor breaks down, how long will it take to fix and restart? The quality of your hay decreases quickly therefore the value deceases quickly too. Even a good rain fall will ruin hay unless you wrap it immediately. Then you are hauling 1,000 pound marsh mellows.


My advice include several ideas. a) can you obtain a boundary adjustment with the neighbor where you need the driveway to shorten it thereby reducing cost and time. b) Start developing a smaller area to reduce your financial /time issues and learn from your smaller area experience. c) If you have a market available, buy cattle in the spring and sell them in the fall. Use them to harvest the grass instead of buying equipment all all the work to make hay. d) Using electric fencing is significantly easier and less expensive than other types. I have learned many other things but too many to list here especially without knowing more details about your situation.

Have you obtained information from local farmers about your plan? Have you presented this plan to your local Agriculture Coop or extension service?

Good luck, your idea sound fun but maybe not profitable.
Ironically, the property I purchased was zoned agriculture and easily rezoned to rural residential. After two years the state passed a law requiring land use planning that the county then made the smallest parcel to be 40 acres to build a residence in agriculture area. Next they set minimum river flows that stopped any new water wells, water rights in the river basin so don't think about future potential beyond a few years.

I finally paid off the mortgage a few months ago. I love the place. We also know that when we have to sell the place and move closer to medical facilities , etc. We can't afford it. I'm 80 years old, the wife is 70 years old with medical issues.

 

[North to Alaska]

Don’t let any of the negative nancys get you down. Jump into it. You are living your dream. Things will work themselves out as you learn.

There is one calculation that you should always keep in mind…”opportunity cost”. Some things should be hired done because you can make more money at your job than you will save if you did it yourself. However, once you do a particular repair or job on the farm, you will be experienced with it and the next time will go much quicker. Sometimes it will be significantly quicker for you to pick up/order a part and repair it yourself than taking the equipment to a dealer or mechanic. So that will also need to be figured into the opportunity cost.

 

[jjp8182]

1. Rent Excavator/compact track loader/dozer as needed + use tractor for supporting tasks as needed (pallet forks, bucket, grapple & trailers can all be used to minimize how much driving the slower dirt working machines need to do).
2. same as #1
3. same as #1
4. rent excavator or buy tractor + rotary cutter, box blade & grapple - or 3pt forestry mulcher depending on size of vegetation and how clean I wanted/needed to get it ...assuming it's creating a fence line and not cleaning growth out of an existing fence line (if it's the latter then the effort to clean the fence line would need to be considered vs. ripping it out & starting anew).
5. consider buying post pounder (possibly trailer mounted)+ method for moving a stockpile of posts with the pounding operation to minimize amount of movements needed to get everything around the area
6. buy tractor & implements sized to get work done in a "timely" manner

All of that is of course tied to doing the necessary research to learn how to do things "right" (or at least knowing what "right" should be even if shortcuts become necessary).

Sometimes hiring someone with the right knowledge to get something done once can save time/money, and sometimes hiring a "professional" doesn't save time/money or avoid making costly corrections later because they took shortcuts that weren't appropriate. Being a "professional" means they're getting paid to do it and (unfortunately) doesn't always means they're competent or ethical about how they do it......

Another thing to consider is looking for a good 3pt to SSQA adapter as sometimes skid steer attachments can work better on the rear of a tractor than it does on the loader. For example: a 3pt hitch can generally lift far heavier loads than the loader on tractor. In my situation I can use 3pt pallet forks to move a IBC tote w/250 gallons of water (total wright a bit over 2000lbs) while the pallet forks on on loader can only lift 1200-ish lbs (+ the weight of the pallet forks). Another example where the higher lift capacity would be useful is hydraulic post pullers/grapples.

Just my thoughts though...

 

[kenhar]

I need help figuring out what to buy!

Please tell me what YOU would do! And how YOU would approach this project.

We just bought a 150 acre farm (all crop land). All of it is rolling hills - nothing terribly steep, but not flat either.

In the next year or so, I need to:
1. Cut and grade an entrance from the road (about 50 ft of wooded area next to the road). Need to install culvert, etc. for road access.
2. Grade and install a 1/2 mile long driveway. Everything except the entrance is through the middle of a field - rolling hills - with 1 extra culvert needed
3. Grade a 60'x120' pad for our barn.
4. Clear 2.5 miles of fence line that is currently extremely overgrown honeysuckle (think 50 years of honeysuckle growth)
5. Pound about 1200 5-6'' round posts into the ground (quoted over $70k just to pound the posts, so I'll be doing this myself.)
6. Standard maintenance of pasture - so mow about 150 acres

We plan to hire someone to come in and seed hay - so roundup and a seed drill. We plan to hire that job out to someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Currently all weeds, so will hopefully be pasture and hay fields by this time next year.

But the big question:
Do I buy a tractor or a skid steer (with tracks, so a track loader)? And buying one thing - keeping it for a year to complete all of the above jobs - and then selling it and buying something different - is something I am willing to do.

Budget of about $35-40k, including any needed attachments.

I can buy a track loader for about $30k, a bush hog for $4k, and a post pounder for $4k - and be comfortably under my $40k max. Going this route means I wouldn't be able to harvest my own hay, etc until I sell the track loader and buy a tractor. And bush hogging 150 acres with a track loader is going to be rough.

Alternatively, I spend $30k on a newer 60-70 hp tractor with a loader, $5k on a post pounder, $5k on a bush hog - and be right at my max. I would probably need to rent a bulldozer or track loader to do the driveway, etc - which would be about $2000/week. No idea if I can get it done in one week or not, but my guess is closer to 2 weeks.

And it might actually be better if I buy a cheap dozer ($10k?) and sell it when I am done with it. Then buy the tractor after I sell the dozer.

I need help making a decision! Any and all advice appreciated!

 

[tradosaurus]

You would be amazed at what 100 acres of farmland can rake in… but not with your typical farm crop.
Look into alternative crops.
some of those alternatives leave enough space between rows to hay as well.

The devils lettuce?

 

[kenhar]

I have a dresser 175c track loader with 4 in 1 bucket that will do any of the heavy work you are looking at. 10 to 15 G and will do anything a similar size Cat 977 will do for half the price. They weigh around 34,000 lbs. You will need some type of dump truck for your hauling needs. A flat bed is more versatile. I would use steel posts instead of wood, you can drive by hand and will outlast you and your significant other. Once you get the homestead like you want it, sell the loader and buy a tractor. You can't bush hog with a track loader. Buy a 80 to 100 hp used tractor with a cab if you don't like the outdoors in summer and winter. Those size tractors are the cheapest horsepower you will find and are big enough to do about anything you need to do. A skid steer is more of a specialty tool, not universal like a tractor. Buy equipment as you need it and enjoy life.

 

[SW OR John W]

I need help figuring out what to buy!

Please tell me what YOU would do! And how YOU would approach this project.

We just bought a 150 acre farm (all crop land). All of it is rolling hills - nothing terribly steep, but not flat either.

In the next year or so, I need to:
1. Cut and grade an entrance from the road (about 50 ft of wooded area next to the road). Need to install culvert, etc. for road access.
2. Grade and install a 1/2 mile long driveway. Everything except the entrance is through the middle of a field - rolling hills - with 1 extra culvert needed
3. Grade a 60'x120' pad for our barn.
4. Clear 2.5 miles of fence line that is currently extremely overgrown honeysuckle (think 50 years of honeysuckle growth)
5. Pound about 1200 5-6'' round posts into the ground (quoted over $70k just to pound the posts, so I'll be doing this myself.)
6. Standard maintenance of pasture - so mow about 150 acres

We plan to hire someone to come in and seed hay - so roundup and a seed drill. We plan to hire that job out to someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Currently all weeds, so will hopefully be pasture and hay fields by this time next year.

But the big question:
Do I buy a tractor or a skid steer (with tracks, so a track loader)? And buying one thing - keeping it for a year to complete all of the above jobs - and then selling it and buying something different - is something I am willing to do.

Budget of about $35-40k, including any needed attachments.

I can buy a track loader for about $30k, a bush hog for $4k, and a post pounder for $4k - and be comfortably under my $40k max. Going this route means I wouldn't be able to harvest my own hay, etc until I sell the track loader and buy a tractor. And bush hogging 150 acres with a track loader is going to be rough.

Alternatively, I spend $30k on a newer 60-70 hp tractor with a loader, $5k on a post pounder, $5k on a bush hog - and be right at my max. I would probably need to rent a bulldozer or track loader to do the driveway, etc - which would be about $2000/week. No idea if I can get it done in one week or not, but my guess is closer to 2 weeks.

And it might actually be better if I buy a cheap dozer ($10k?) and sell it when I am done with it. Then buy the tractor after I sell the dozer.

I need help making a decision! Any and all advice appreciated!

7 years ago I was much in your situation. I have a few thoughts,

1. that is a long long list, you aren't going to get it done in 1 year! Prioritize, I'd start with getting the hay producing revenue (I guess pretty obvious)
2. is the pasture all in good condition or are you going to have to remove trees/overgrowth?
3. don't look at the average rolling hills, look at the worst areas you'd want to go up/down/side hill on.
4. rent equipment, make some progress, see what is good/bad about it, then rent a different piece of equipment. You start to make progress, make no long term commitment, and have no maintenance responsibility. Our local rental places give you a free weekend on either end of a weeks rental, great for a 7 day/week DIYer.

I got a tractor, wasn't smart enough to consider the options as well are you are so you are way ahead of me. I won't say I regretted it but many times I wish I'd gone skid steer instead, mainly due to higher lift capacity (we have forest so big logs) and versatility. $70k for 1200 posts doesn't sound bad at all < $60/post, I'd bet they have much more specialized equipment then just a post pounder. I bet after you do a days post installs, see how many you get done, it might be worth reconsidering.

 

[ning]

IMO the full time job plus trying to get these things done ASAP is a big red flag.

I also have a full time job, and though it's very flexible and I often can fudge my time +/20 hours in a week (I'm not cheating, just moving my time around - I always get the job done when it needs to be done), it can be very hard to budget getting time-intensive work done.

My biggest concerns with your scheme is that you haven't put in a road, and only have theoretical knowledge of how to do so, and you've never operated the heavy machinery for it - and you need it done pronto. That's a painful number of strikes right there. You really really need to hire that out, even if you think you can do everything else yourself with rented or bought equipment, you need that road done right and fast.

 

[Aden2112]

A question or three I haven't seen yet, but should be asked. 1, When it comes to a dozer, have you actually ever used one? I ask, because if you haven't (or have only a couple of hours on one) it may take you much, much longer than your neighbors are giving you time to be finished, AND you could really screw things up for your property - you said they would give you 2 weeks. 2. Are you comfortable in making the initial sloping of the drive for runoff (goes back to question 1) and 3. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are possibly implying that the boarding (of critters. I'm guessing) is part if your business plan with the bank. Have you ever done this before? Hay in the off season can be pricey and depending on the types of critters the other kinds of feed can really eat into your budget. I won't even begin with Antibiotics, wormers, etc, etc.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting you might be in over your head, just some advice from an old guy that's been around the block a time or three.

Great advice.

1. I have, but very limited use. I am very much a beginner.

2. All I need to get done right away is to cut an access through the wooded area. 50 ft - and I have access. The rest of the road can come in more than 2 weeks time.

3. Yep - we have that set up and ready to go (have experience there).

People here have convinced me that a tractor is the way to go. So I am going to buy or rent a bulldozer - and a tractor - and sell the dozer when I am done with it.

 

[bartjoebob]

I need help figuring out what to buy!

Please tell me what YOU would do! And how YOU would approach this project.

We just bought a 150 acre farm (all crop land). All of it is rolling hills - nothing terribly steep, but not flat either.

In the next year or so, I need to:
1. Cut and grade an entrance from the road (about 50 ft of wooded area next to the road). Need to install culvert, etc. for road access.
2. Grade and install a 1/2 mile long driveway. Everything except the entrance is through the middle of a field - rolling hills - with 1 extra culvert needed
3. Grade a 60'x120' pad for our barn.
4. Clear 2.5 miles of fence line that is currently extremely overgrown honeysuckle (think 50 years of honeysuckle growth)
5. Pound about 1200 5-6'' round posts into the ground (quoted over $70k just to pound the posts, so I'll be doing this myself.)
6. Standard maintenance of pasture - so mow about 150 acres

We plan to hire someone to come in and seed hay - so roundup and a seed drill. We plan to hire that job out to someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Currently all weeds, so will hopefully be pasture and hay fields by this time next year.

But the big question:
Do I buy a tractor or a skid steer (with tracks, so a track loader)? And buying one thing - keeping it for a year to complete all of the above jobs - and then selling it and buying something different - is something I am willing to do.

Budget of about $35-40k, including any needed attachments.

I can buy a track loader for about $30k, a bush hog for $4k, and a post pounder for $4k - and be comfortably under my $40k max. Going this route means I wouldn't be able to harvest my own hay, etc until I sell the track loader and buy a tractor. And bush hogging 150 acres with a track loader is going to be rough.

Alternatively, I spend $30k on a newer 60-70 hp tractor with a loader, $5k on a post pounder, $5k on a bush hog - and be right at my max. I would probably need to rent a bulldozer or track loader to do the driveway, etc - which would be about $2000/week. No idea if I can get it done in one week or not, but my guess is closer to 2 weeks.

And it might actually be better if I buy a cheap dozer ($10k?) and sell it when I am done with it. Then buy the tractor after I sell the dozer.

I need help making a decision! Any and all advice appreciated!

Your short term needs can be accomplished with FB marketplace then resold. Skid steer, tractor attachments and implements for certain projects fall into this category. And I'll even go out on a limb and call these items practically free since resale value will be about what you paid. How do you plan to use the property long term? Tractor will be more versatile and adaptable. Skid steer will definitely allow for some heavier duty applications but the attachments are going to be more costly and less common to find. If committed to buying new, I'd go tractor personally

 

[Aden2112]

7 years ago I was much in your situation. I have a few thoughts,

1. that is a long long list, you aren't going to get it done in 1 year! Prioritize, I'd start with getting the hay producing revenue (I guess pretty obvious)
2. is the pasture all in good condition or are you going to have to remove trees/overgrowth?
3. don't look at the average rolling hills, look at the worst areas you'd want to go up/down/side hill on.
4. rent equipment, make some progress, see what is good/bad about it, then rent a different piece of equipment. You start to make progress, make no long term commitment, and have no maintenance responsibility. Our local rental places give you a free weekend on either end of a weeks rental, great for a 7 day/week DIYer.

I got a tractor, wasn't smart enough to consider the options as well are you are so you are way ahead of me. I won't say I regretted it but many times I wish I'd gone skid steer instead, mainly due to higher lift capacity (we have forest so big logs) and versatility. $70k for 1200 posts doesn't sound bad at all < $60/post, I'd bet they have much more specialized equipment then just a post pounder. I bet after you do a days post installs, see how many you get done, it might be worth reconsidering.

1. Yep - we are going to seed 100 acres (hiring this out) and get the hay production started this fall. I'm installing paddocks on the other 50 acres this fall as well. Those are the major income producing parts of the operation.
2. Great condition. About 149 usable acres right now as it sits.
3. There are a couple of bad spots - so I will keep this in mind.
4. I like the suggestion. This was part of the plan based on all of this advice. I'm going to rent a post pounder for a day and see how it goes before we make any decisions there. You may be right.

 

[Aden2112]

IMO the full time job plus trying to get these things done ASAP is a big red flag.

I also have a full time job, and though it's very flexible and I often can fudge my time +/20 hours in a week (I'm not cheating, just moving my time around - I always get the job done when it needs to be done), it can be very hard to budget getting time-intensive work done.

My biggest concerns with your scheme is that you haven't put in a road, and only have theoretical knowledge of how to do so, and you've never operated the heavy machinery for it - and you need it done pronto. That's a painful number of strikes right there. You really really need to hire that out, even if you think you can do everything else yourself with rented or bought equipment, you need that road done right and fast.

I may have a lot of strikes against me. I'll post a road - or a lack thereof - in a few weeks as a follow up!

Going to be using a dozer for the road based on the advice here. Rent it - and if I can't figure it out, I'll hire an operator.

 

[moparrob]

I know a lot of folks will tell you that you need 3 machines- farming tractor, skid steer and excavator. I have the Kubota M59 and it will do probably everything youd need, but maybe not as stupendously as a fleet of specialized machines. The M59, L47 and similar, or a JD 110 TLB would be excellent choices. If you plan on loading and stacking big bales, go M59 or the new M62.

See if your local rental yards will rent low flow skidsteer attachments for the infrequent jobs like post holes or a loader mount hydraulic flail mower for tall weeds. TLBs with skid steer quick attach and 3rd funtion hydraulics are like big, smelly kitchen aid mixers...youll want all the attachments!

 

[sandman2234]

Good luck with the road and be careful!
David from jax