Understanding Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing and CDL requirements

[ning]

Sure looks to me like they are giving you the wiggle room to be 36k? Follow the flow chart you posted for a 26k truck and a 10k trailer and see where it puts you.

BINGO

This Washington state link: WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: Types of CDLs
seems to provoke more questions than it answers

Class A doesn't cover GCWR > 26k if the trailer is 10k or under.
But, "Washington State doesn't recognize class A passenger vehicles", so what's a passenger vehicle? A bus? Is my crew cab with kids in the back seat a passenger vehicle even if it's towing a GVWR 16k trailer with an excavator on it? I'm guessing a truck is not a passenger vehicle; when it's towing the primary function is towing and not hauling passengers.

Class B is for a truck over 26k. Easy enough to understand. But, it makes it look like towing any trailer 10k or under requires a class B??? I have to think that this is for "a truck over 26k towing a trailer under 10k" (if it's over 10k, you're class A).

The (s) in "vehicle(s)" under the class A is for towing two trailers at once (requires a CDL endorsement, same linked page).

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Class B is for a truck over 26k. Easy enough to understand. But, it makes it look like towing any trailer 10k or under requires a class B??? I have to think that this is for "a truck over 26k towing a trailer under 10k" (if it's over 10k, you're class A).

The (s) in "vehicle(s)" under the class A is for towing two trailers at once (requires a CDL endorsement, same linked page).

The (s) is in vehicles without any adjective to designate it means only trailers, therefore it means all vehicles in combination. If you get inspected in Washington, the ticket only has unit 1, unit 2 and unit 3 boxes meaning vehicles in combination.
"All single vehicles with a manufacturer's weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more.
All trailers with a manufacturer's weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, and " a combined vehicles' gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more."

It's clear enough to me, 26,000 is the highest GVWR in solo or combination that can be operated without a CDL.

If you have a class B license, you can pull a 10K trailer behind your 26K or heavier truck, you don't need a class A license. If the trailer is a 14K trailer and the GVWR of the towing vehicle exceeds 12K, you need a Class A. To legally exceed 26K in any combination you need a CDL. Full stop.

 

[LD1]

You must have missed the box that says "Are the manufacturers weight rating of the vehicle(s)s 26,001 or more" That bracketed "s" indicates both vehicles in combination.

Stated more clearly in another place:
"All trailers with a manufacturer's weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, and a combined vehicles' gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more."

This tells me that any combination of 26,000 requires a CDL. It looks like I could haul a 14k or larger trailer behind a pickup provided I don't exceed 26k, but the language is a bit ambiguous. I wasn't planning on moving anything heavy and with the language being less than crystal clear, I bought a 10K trailer. There has to be a reason that trailer manufacturers list the GVWR of their 10K trailers at #9900 on the data plate.

Didnt miss that box...

Never made it to that box. FOLLOW THE FLOW CHART

 

[LD1]

....

Maybe this will help.

The red circle is what you are citing......

The green line is the flow you would take for a 26k truck and a 10k trailer

 

[LD1]

To legally exceed 26K in any combination you need a CDL. Full stop.

WRONG

 

[stumblinhorse]

It would good to have a definitive thread on the rules.

Seems like what I read is:
if your vehicle <= 26000 GVWR it doesn’t need a CDL in any state.

if your tow vehicle is <= 26000 GVWR and your trailer is <=10000 then you don’t need a CDL in any state.

If your trailer is rated above 10k then the tow vehicle plus the trailer rating cannot exceed 26001.

Then CA has a crazy rule that if the trailer is above 10k rated doesn’t matter is you are pulling it with your old Pontiac, you need a CDL.

I think it is that simple. But I think people don’t realize that many/most 1 ton dually pickups have >26000k GVWR(wrong)these days…meant GCWR

 

[ning]

It would good to have a definitive thread on the rules.

The problem is that the law isn't entirely clear and thus some of this is up to the cop & judge. We can make the best stab at it though...
Also note that CA is likely not the only exception. Most of the states just echo the federal regulations, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple other exceptions out there.

I think it is that simple. But I think people don’t realize that many/most 1 ton dually pickups have >26000k GVWR these days…

*GCWR, not GVWR.

 

[LD1]

It would good to have a definitive thread on the rules.

Seems like what I read is:
if your vehicle <= 26000 GVWR it doesn’t need a CDL in any state. Correct

if your tow vehicle is <= 26000 GVWR and your trailer is <=10000 then you don’t need a CDL in any state. Correct

If your trailer is rated above 10k then the tow vehicle plus the trailer rating cannot exceed 26001. Correct

Then CA has a crazy rule that if the trailer is above 10k rated doesn’t matter is you are pulling it with your old Pontiac, you need a CDL.

I think it is that simple. But I think people don’t realize that many/most 1 ton dually pickups have >26000k GVWR these days… Not even close. 12k-14k is about what most 1-ton dually's are

 

[stumblinhorse]

Yes sorry, GCWR not GVWR. So my last sentence is incorrect edited!

 

[stumblinhorse]

The problem is that the law isn't entirely clear and thus some of this is up to the cop & judge. We can make the best stab at it though...
Also note that CA is likely not the only exception. Most of the states just echo the federal regulations, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple other exceptions out there.

*GCWR, not GVWR.

I am not sure there are a whole lot of exceptions. States register vehicles weights differently. But all states follow the ELDT rule. Which I believe is a standard training curriculum. So not too different. But whether you get a ticket is definitely different, but that is always the case. But the rules are not that different. Correct me if I am wrong.